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Why is the Alliance helping to evacuate earth?

Débuté par Fixers0 , juil. 23 2011 09:42

863 réponses à ce sujet

#326
General User
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 01:47

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Candidate 88766 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

You also missed my third point - how does the Alliance know there'll be anyone left to save by the time they mount a rescue?

There'll be a resistance hidding underground, waiting for the perfect moment to strike back at the enemy. 

There may well be, but the Alliance can't assume that. The Reapers are so powerful that they bypass Earth's defences in minutes. for all the Alliance knows, there will be no life left on Earth by the end of the first week.

Yes, and the Alliance can evacuate maybe 0.1% of Earth's population. At the expense of all of it's logistical capabilities.

If the Alliance is fleeing Earth anyway then why shouldn't they at least try to take some people with them?


They are taking people with them, the crews of those ships. Any further evacuations would have to be limited to essential persons, VIP's, and the like.

#327
Someone With Mass
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 01:47

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Zulu_DFA wrote...
*toomentallyretardedtogetitsnip*


"The UT-47 Kodiak Drop Shuttle, is a personnel carrier capable of planetary flight and limited FTL travel."

What part of that are you incapable of understanding, meathead? For your information, FTL = Faster Than Light.

But I guess you don't like logic. Logic makes your head hurt.

Your games aren't amusing anyone, they're just proving that you're so in denial just because BioWare aren't following your utterly stupid storyline. 

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 24 juillet 2011 - 01:47 .

#328
Someone With Mass
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 01:51

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Um, you see, I'm kinda proud to be butthurt, when BioWare takes a good game and dumbs it down to be accessible to people like you.


Do you really believe that playing a game like Mass Effect (a game that wasn't that much of a stretch of the mind to begin with) gives you superior intelligence over others? Ha. That's just pathetic.

#329
King Minos
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:09

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What is a retcon?

#330
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:12

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Where do they get those money from?


From selling the goods they produce and services they offer.


Zulu_DFA wrote...

The Alliance exists because it wants to.


No, it exists to serve a purpose. That purpose is to facilitate the expansion of human industry into space. Without Earth that will stop because there will be no people to expand with and no people to buy up the resources you dig up, turn them into useful products, and sell them to you at a reasonable price. It's a cycle.

They pay you so you can sell to them so they can pay some more.



Anyway,  @the rest of you (Candidate and others); my point is that if we get our military destroyed we won't be able to save anyone. It's like Shepard's renegade approach when the crew is taken, "Us dying doesn't do them any good, Jacob."

You don't rush off to save your crew unless the ship is fully upgraded and all your squadmates are recruited and loyal.

The more forces we waste trying to save people on Earth during the initial invasion the harder a time we'll have coming back to save the rest.

The Reapers aren't going to kill them all. If they were they'd have bombed the planet from orbit, not landed on it.

There are 11 billion people on Earth. It would take the Reapers years to kill even 1 billion. We've got time but a single miss-step could cost us dearly.

#331
Zulu_DFA
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:13

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King Minos wrote...

What is a retcon?

Yes.

#332
Zulu_DFA
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:15

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Someone With Mass wrote...

"The UT-47 Kodiak Drop Shuttle, is a personnel carrier capable of planetary flight and limited FTL travel."

Source?



Someone With Mass wrote...



But I guess you don't like logic.

I am in love with logic.



Someone With Mass wrote...


Your games aren't amusing anyone, they're just proving that you're so in denial just because BioWare aren't following your utterly stupid storyline. 

Tali. She needs you.

#333
Slayer299
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:15

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Gee, I wonder if has something to do with the billions of humans, both rich and poor, including the potential leaders of companies and nations, the very same nations that created the Alliance being located on Earth...


^This

Seriously OP, why are you even asking that stupid of a question?

#334
King Minos
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:18

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I think we should forget earth, there will be a **** load of casualties but earth is not the only planet ful of humans, humans are on many planets, the destruction of earth is possibl the best for humanity as earth is a over populated slum. Reducing the human population is good but sending soldiers to earth will be met with disaster and a waste of resources, the majorit of the reaper fleet is properly on earth

#335
CroGamer002
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:20

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Mesina2 wrote...

Is this thread for real?


No really, answer this question for me.

#336
Zered
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:23

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Don't know if anyone wrote this but someone in the Alliance should note that loosing Earth is like giving millions of husks for the Reapers to use. It would be probably safer to evacuate essential people and nuke the planet to save the rest from being indoctrinated or turned into husks.

#337
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:25

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michalooo wrote...

Don't know if anyone wrote this but someone in the Alliance should note that loosing Earth is like giving millions of husks for the Reapers to use. It would be probably safer to evacuate essential people and nuke the planet to save the rest from being indoctrinated or turned into husks.


Um... no. If we destroy the planet ourselves we destroy humanity in the process. We're better off joining the Reapers in that case.

Come on, don't be afraid. We can be like they are. We can fly.

#338
legion999
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:25

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Mesina2 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Is this thread for real?


No really, answer this question for me.


Suprisingly it is.

#339
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Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:28

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True, the Alliance didn't do anything when the human colonies were being liquified. Why would they interfere when the Earth is attacked, then? Apparently "everything the Alliance stands for" is "sit and do nothing while humanity is being annihilated by the aliens."

Maybe those ships helping with evacuation are traitors who turned their back on the Alliance, just like Shepard. I believe so, because if the Alliance really wanted to evacuate the Earth, they would have done so before the invasion - they had six months or so, they were warned.

Apparently watching their home planet being demolished right before their eyes proved too much for some of the Alliance pilots to handle. Maybe they have family here, and they could no longer follow that "do nothing" doctrine.

#340
Aumata
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:28

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

If you don't at least try to save Earth's population then the vast majority of humanity will perish.


I didn't say we wouldn't try, you dunce.

Try and follow a long here.

We escape with our army from Earth as intact as possible.

THEN we mount a rescue and we evict the Reapers at the same time.

What we don't do is waste time and resouces trying to save people while the Reapers are invading. We get the hell out of Dodge.

That is what the Alliance does when the invasion starts though.  They try to rescue as many lives at first, but when they realize that they can't win with out help they start to retreat.  The alliance isn't sending their entire forces to rescue earth when it starts.  More than likely it is the Alliance forces that is present in the Sol System that starts to fight back and save as many people as possible to, then the retreat happens.  

Which is what you guys are ultimaly getting at.  They don't retreat first when they see the reaper forces, they try to save as many lives as possible.  When the realization that they are not going to win they leave Sol system to regroup with the rest of the Alliance fleet, and seek help elsewhere.  Which is what you guys are getting at right?

#341
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:29

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Aumata wrote...

That is what the Alliance does when the invasion starts though.  They try to rescue as many lives at first, but when they realize that they can't win with out help they start to retreat.


The game isn't out yet, how do you know?

#342
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:30

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laecraft wrote...

True, the Alliance didn't do anything when the human colonies were being liquified.


Actually, after Horizon they did take action. They sent their fleet to protect their larger colonies and evacuate their smaller ones. Any ships which ran into the Collectors though were lost.

You only find this out if you do Arrival before the Suicide Mission.

#343
Someone With Mass
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:31

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

"The UT-47 Kodiak Drop Shuttle, is a personnel carrier capable of planetary flight and limited FTL travel."

Source?


http://masseffect.wi...ak_Drop_Shuttle

I actually like to read about subjects before talking about them.

#344
Someone With Mass
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:32

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King Minos wrote...

What is a retcon?


Overused word that the "cool" kids are using on the forum, even if they fail to understand the meaning of the word completely.

And retcon is short for: Retroactive continuity.

#345
CroGamer002
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:33

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Never mind.

Modifié par Mesina2, 24 juillet 2011 - 02:39 .

#346
Aumata
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:36

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Aumata wrote...

That is what the Alliance does when the invasion starts though.  They try to rescue as many lives at first, but when they realize that they can't win with out help they start to retreat.


The game isn't out yet, how do you know?



The most logical outcome that can happen.   Reapers invade, Alliance forces present at the area fights back.  They are also presently trying to save as many civilians as possible.  When they realize that they can't win they mount a retreat to regroup, leaving earth behind.  We know that because the Normandy retreats, and it is safe to assume that some of the forces present in the area retreats.  Presently they can't fight the reapers as of now, so saving as many lives as possible and retreating to regroup is the most obvious action they can take.

#347
Zulu_DFA
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:43

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[quote]celuloid wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

That said, the most populous and developed planet in Alliance space is not "a money sink". It is the complete opposite. They give you money by buying up all that crap you dig out of the ground out in the colonies.
[/quote]
Where do they get those money from?
[/quote]
They do not have to get the money. They simply have it.
Company ownership is on Earth. The profits stay on Earth and are distributed among shareholders who live there and salaries are spent by colonists mainly on luxury goods which stem from Earth. The money stays in Alliance economy.
Really, it's all Economics 101.
[/quote]
First of all, it's funny how you link to Cord-Hislop Aerospase, whose main honcho Jack Harper has already left Earth and lives in a space station.

Secondly, when the profits generated off Earth are distributed on Earth, that's what I call a money sink.

Thirdly, a consumption driven economy is a sure way to bakruptcy (as you have been able to witness in real life since 2008).

And lastly, with the Reaper invasion there is a serious inflation going on, and I hear, tickets to the Alliance shuttles are sold on the black market at 1 billion credits per person, no discounts for children.


[quote]celuloid wrote... 
[quote]

Who gives money to the geth?
[/quote]
You tell me. You obviously made some sort of point here, but I am not Oracle to guess which one.
[/quote]
Nobody. The point is not every economy needs money.



[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Where do they get those money from?[/quote]
From selling the goods they produce and services they offer.
[/quote]
What in the name of Mickey F. Mouse do they produce and offer???

Earth was a giant "acid washed slum" even before the Reapers invaded. But now it's a "game over" for the Earth. Humanity has to destroy the Reapers and look for a new beginning. Truly the Reapers are doing a favor to Humanity. Now what we need is to be smart at destroy them with minimal losses to the fleets and the colonies.



[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

The Alliance exists because it wants to.[/quote]
No, it exists to serve a purpose. That purpose is to facilitate the expansion of human industry into space. Without Earth that will stop because there will be no people to expand with[/quote]
Robots. They enhance productivity of labor.


[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

and no people to buy up the resources you dig up, turn them into useful products, and sell them to you at a reasonable price. It's a cycle. 
[/quote]
Look, if a person produces less than he eats and sh*ts, that's not the kind of a person I'd like to see in my expanding economy.



[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...



They pay you so you can sell to them so they can pay some more.
[/quote]
So, where does the grouth and expansion come from?

#348
Zulu_DFA
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:51

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

"The UT-47 Kodiak Drop Shuttle, is a personnel carrier capable of planetary flight and limited FTL travel."

Source?


http://masseffect.wi...ak_Drop_Shuttle

I actually like to read about subjects before talking about them.


In-game source (like this), please, not some fanboy's fantasies.

I repeat, where in the game is it said that the Kodiak is capable of the "limited FTL travel"?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 juillet 2011 - 02:59 .

#349
Zulu_DFA
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:56

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Aumata wrote...

That is what the Alliance does when the invasion starts though.  They try to rescue as many lives at first, but when they realize that they can't win with out help they start to retreat.


The question is: WHERE ARE THE OTHER EVACUATORS???

Where is the UNAS National Guard? Where are private shuttles?

The thing is, BioWare is again cutting a corner, making a cop-out, in a way that amounts to a retcon in regards to the lore of the series.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 juillet 2011 - 02:57 .

#350
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 24 juillet 2011 - 02:58

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Secondly, when the profits generated off Earth are distributed on Earth, that's what I call a money sink.

Thirdly, a consumption driven economy is a sure way to bakruptcy (as you have been able to witness in real life since 2008).


You don't know what you're talking about, Zulu. Earth doens't just consume, it produces. In addition to that, an economy of production is only worthwhile if it has someone who can consume that which it produces.

Earth produces goods and colonists.

The colonies produces raw resources.

Earth uses its wealth to fund the Alliance so that it can increase its power and hold more territory so that Earth can send out more colonists, so that they can dig up raw materials, that they sell to Earth, that Earth turns into goods, that it sells on the colonies.

What in the name of Mickey F. Mouse do they produce and offer???


The codex doesn't give us a details on what is produced there.

I find it quite telling that you are describing Earth in the same terms a racist anti-human alien used.

Without Earth you won't have a fleet anymore, Zulu. I've told you this before but here it is again in the vain hope you might listen and admit you are making a mistake:

You need money to build and maintain a fleet. Earth gives you money. Without Earth you get no money and can't maintain your fleet.

Earth gives you colonists. Without colonists you can't create new colonies. If you stop expanding you leave open territory for your much more populous rivals to take. We are already at a disadvantage, Zulu. The aliens have populations possibly numbering in the 100s of billions and we barely have 12 billion. We've already nearly overstreched ourselves as is evident by our military doctrine which doesn't even attempt to protect all of its worlds.

The human economy will tank without Earth when all of a sudden our colonists lose their biggest customer and business partner. They'll have to make more deals with aliens and aliens are our rivals. They have their own demands and share very few common interests with us.

We won't be a market the aliens will care much about because we just lost our biggest single collective source of industry, commerce, and higher learning, as well as our biggest marked to buy up any alien goods. Our economic and military footprint on the galaxy shrinks.  We will become a client race, the question is, "to whom?"

The Council? They won't want us and your cash-strapped fleet will just be a burden. As we won't be able to keep expanding we won't be able to bring anymore stability to the Traverse or Terminus. We'll have ceased to be useful to them. To conserve your forces you'll have to reduce the number of territories you are willing to protect, and that will shrink our territory. Humanity gets smaller.

Humanity can and will survive Earth's destruction, but your dreams of power and prosperity in the aftermath are delusional.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Robots. They enhance productivity of labor.


Robots cost money and they still need to be defended. You are advocating a strategy that costs more money in a situation in which you'll have lost a lot of money and will be losing even more.

I think you had an idle thought: wouldn't it be awesome if the colonies could flourish without Earth, if Earth was parasitic? Then you decided it was true and you ignore any arguments (or facts) to the contrary.






Zulu_DFA wrote...

So, where does the grouth and expansion come from?


That huge, developed population on Earth. The most populous and planet in your territory with the most widespread and developed infrastructure.
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