863 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Fixers0 wrote...

Actually i'm done with you pointless accusations, if you think i'm a troll then fine go ahead and spread the word, call whaterver you wan't go ahead and report me if you want. 
 

You can keep playing stupid, or you can see me as just a person with his opinion on things. 

Why are those the only two options? That would be a stupid false delimma and make no sense...

...thus proving that you are, in fact, trolling!


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[Fixers0]

Arijharn wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
Because i was serious, but really were does this all went wrong? i just wanted to point out an inconsistency, that there were no boundries between earth and the Alliance,

And yes is still think that sacrificing earth should be posibility, but that's just my opinion.

It's cool that you have your own opinion, but your opinion doesn't meet facts as described in the Codex, and citing Zulu as proof isn't really proof at all now is it?

I do believe that during the war with the Reapers, eventually the Alliance will have to leave Earth (and the people on Earth) behind to better co-ordinate their attempts to retake the planet, but I think (and said as much as did others) that you were just plain wrong when you postulated that the Earth didn't matter, because simple economics prove you wrong, simple size of industry prove you wrong, simple fact is that for better or worse humanity still relies on Earth itself for most of it's products (because how could it not? We can't rely on other species for everything humanity needs (because that would lead to a trade deficit, and the gross output of the other colonies isn't enough to both supply them and the others).

Now, will this change after the Reaper invasion? Who knows, but it's irrelevant at the moment isn't it.

I hope we can have a reasonable  discussion now,

I never meant to said that earth didn't matter, i just don't think we should put all our efforts into saving this planet,
When the Reapers attack, earth becomes a planet like every other planet that is under attack, sure earth has the largest amount of human population in the galaxy, and the symbolic value of earth being the origin of humanity should be noted, but since one Reaper was able to take on the entire citiadel fleet, i can seen it happening if tens or hunderds of reapers decimate our fleet within a matter of minutes.

Strategically i would be logical to hold our fleet back, maybe using corporate or country specific shuttles to hold evacuate the people from earth, on the economical level i have trouble understanding the true value of earth, realisticly most of earths natural resources should have been depleted, and some nations are still struggling with poverty and dissease, which would  obviously require a lot of money,

Also we need to consider the fact that once we have defeated the reapers earth might be naught but rubble and dust, there could still be surviors which is great news, but i really consider the chance that earth will fully rebuild  smaller then the fact that  Terra nova could become the most important human planet,

Keep in mind though that the last part is just speculation, but i see it as a realistic scenario, considering what i've learned from  the games.

[Dean_the_Young]

Isn't it amazing how he continually backtracks on his own prior arguments?

[Fixers0]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Actually i'm done with you pointless accusations, if you think i'm a troll then fine go ahead and spread the word, call whaterver you wan't go ahead and report me if you want. 
 

You can keep playing stupid, or you can see me as just a person with his opinion on things. 

Why are those the only two options? That would be a stupid false delimma and make no sense...

...thus proving that you are, in fact, trolling!

I'm getting f*cking sick and tired of you, as said before go ahead and do whatever you want, just don't waste my time and annoy the hell out of me.. 

[Fixers0]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Isn't it amazing how he continually backtracks on his own prior arguments?

Care to explain?

[Fixers0]

Nyoka wrote...

Fixers0,
your claim that the Alliance has nothing to do with the defense of Earth was proven wrong, as the ME wiki clearly states the defense of human territory was a primary goal of the Alliance, one of the main reasons why it was formed. I asked you to acknowledge that fact before moving on to something else, and you simply ignored it.

I wonder why?

Because the codex explains that the Alliance was created for the protection of all extra-solar colonies and station

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex%2FHumanity_and_the_Systems_Alliance

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Fixers0,
your claim that the Alliance has nothing to do with the defense of Earth was proven wrong, as the ME wiki clearly states the defense of human territory was a primary goal of the Alliance, one of the main reasons why it was formed. I asked you to acknowledge that fact before moving on to something else, and you simply ignored it.

I wonder why?

Because the codex explains that the Alliance was created for the protection of all extra-solar colonies and station

Prove that a) The Alliance doesn't have bases on Earth and shuttles over there, Machiavelli is the leader of the Alliance.

Not that it matters anyway, you haven't been able to reply to entire posts with arguments that prove you wrong. Your motive behind continuing to debate is pretty visible by now.

Modifié par Phaedon, 26 juillet 2011 - 05:23 .

[darth_lopez]

Fixers0 wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Why would the Alliance leave human lives to die on Earth when they know they CAN evacuate some of them?

Stop looking too much into it, its not that complicated.

Why should you bother sending ships do their doom.

 the Alliance is much better of without earth.

this is from many pages back

Do we respond with human nature here? instead of arguing with logic?
We don't abandon eachother in great times of despari our own history shows this it's Us we go and we try to do what we can Even if that means sending ships to their doom to save civies, our relics from the past. We defend what's ours with every once of our bloody being.

When the System Alliance was foreged to protect humanity it was This scenario they had in mind! One where Earth is besieged our colonies divided And our fate sealed under near certain anihilation. That's Why we made it to try and avert  near certain anihilation if the situation arose. We made it to defend Home and Our interests. Our home is besieged the S.A. Will try to defend it and save as many of us as they can obviously even if it means precious ships are destroyed the human lives are more important.

On the subject of the Alliance is much better without earth: Without earth the alliance would have no funding. No Ships, No ship yards, no political pull (as they are no longer respresentative of the species with out earth). The colonies do not have the funds to protect themselves they can not supply the alliance And they are the minority of human species.


Now i will dismiss this thread as a troll thread and stop posting here.

what's more is that the bloody emblem of the SA is Earth with a weird archy thing over it.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 26 juillet 2011 - 05:30 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Fixers0 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Actually i'm done with you pointless accusations, if you think i'm a troll then fine go ahead and spread the word, call whaterver you wan't go ahead and report me if you want. 
 

You can keep playing stupid, or you can see me as just a person with his opinion on things. 

Why are those the only two options? That would be a stupid false delimma and make no sense...

...thus proving that you are, in fact, trolling!

I'm getting f*cking sick and tired of you, as said before go ahead and do whatever you want, just don't waste my time and annoy the hell out of me.. 

You also said you were done with me. And yet you're backtracking again?

Get some class, man. Good trolls never vary.

[Canned Bullets]

Fixers0 wrote...

nhsk wrote...

Without the backing of the nations that are actually in the alliance the alliance is nothing.

Which is autmaticly false since the Alliance is an  independant nation. who are mainly backed by human companies and various colonies.

No, the original Alliance before they discovered space travel were the countries on Earth.

[Canned Bullets]

Fixers0 wrote...

nhsk wrote...

Without the backing of the nations that are actually in the alliance the alliance is nothing.

Which is autmaticly false since the Alliance is an  independant nation. who are mainly backed by human companies and various colonies.

No, the original Alliance before they discovered space travel were the countries on Earth.

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Fixers0,
your claim that the Alliance has nothing to do with the defense of Earth was proven wrong, as the ME wiki clearly states the defense of human territory was a primary goal of the Alliance, one of the main reasons why it was formed. I asked you to acknowledge that fact before moving on to something else, and you simply ignored it.

I wonder why?

Because the codex explains that the Alliance was created for the protection of all extra-solar colonies and station

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex%2FHumanity_and_the_Systems_Alliance

Prove that a) The Alliance doesn't have bases on Earth and shuttles over there, Machiavelli is the leader of the Alliance.

A. I Cant, But can you prove that they do have them?

I thought it would be logical to asume that considering the fact earth still is ruled by many independant nations with the Alliance being the generel face of humanity,  that there should still be state armies around there that should at very least asist with the evacuations,

Another problem i have is with the 'invasion' trailer, were we can clearly see Alliance symbols at various news reports and on the clothers of the news reporters what seems to suggest that the Alliance is in control of  the media of various country's

B. no i don't, do you?

[Dean_the_Young]

We've already seen Alliance shuttles, fighters, ships, and troops in the ME3 demo. Ergo, yes, we can prove the Alliance military presence on Earth.

[Fixers0]

Canned Bullets wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

nhsk wrote...

Without the backing of the nations that are actually in the alliance the alliance is nothing.

Which is autmaticly false since the Alliance is an  independant nation. who are mainly backed by human companies and various colonies.

No, the original Alliance before they discovered space travel were the countries on Earth.

True enough, i never questioned it's origin, but ingame it's stile regarded as indpendant enitity that recieves political support from earth as it acts as it's represenative body.

[Canned Bullets]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

We've already seen Alliance shuttles, fighters, ships, and troops in the ME3 demo. Ergo, yes, we can prove the Alliance military presence on Earth.

I know the Alliance represents Earth, but I thought the Alliance only had small bases on Human held planets and that most of their Military was based at Arcterus Station.

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...
A. I Cant, But can you prove that they do have them?

Yes. I can see one of them in the trailer!

I thought it would be logical to asume that considering the fact earth still is ruled by many independant nations with the Alliance being the generel face of humanity,  that there should still be state armies around there that should at very least asist with the evacuations,

The Alliance helping means that the armies are not helping. Right.

And I love armies who have their own spacecraft, although it's the Alliance who is supposed to be the space force.

Another problem i have is with the 'invasion' trailer, were we can clearly see Alliance symbols at various news reports and on the clothers of the news reporters what seems to suggest that the Alliance is in control of  the media of various country's

It's the ANN in various versions.

Like Al Jazeera English and Arabic, there's ANN English, French, etc.

And the ANN has a public station airing different shows in different countries, what the heck is your problem with that?

B. no i don't, do you?

Yes, I can prove that he is not the leader of the Alliance.

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
A. I Cant, But can you prove that they do have them?

Yes. I can see one of them in the trailer!

Or they just arrived from orbit.

I thought it would be logical to asume that considering the fact earth still is ruled by many independant nations with the Alliance being the generel face of humanity,  that there should still be state armies around there that should at very least asist with the evacuations,

The Alliance helping means that the armies are not helping. Right.

But were are they? i havent' seen one uniform with 'US MARINES'

And I love armies who have their own spacecraft, although it's the Alliance who is supposed to be the space force.

And the private shuttle's? they vanished too?

Another problem i have is with the 'invasion' trailer, were we can clearly see Alliance symbols at various news reports and on the clothers of the news reporters what seems to suggest that the Alliance is in control of  the media of various country's

It's the ANN in various versions.

Like Al Jazeera English and Arabic, there's ANN English, French, etc.

And the ANN has a public station airing different shows in different countries, what the heck is your problem with that?

Or it could mean Bioware's being lazy again, like breaking the fourh wall at the end of Mass Effect 2 when they tried to expain the plot to us.

B. no i don't, do you?

Yes, I can prove that he is not the leader of the Alliance.

Just in general wasn't the Alliance supposed to keep the Reaper exsitance silent, then i would make more sense if we seen foreign news reporst, but hey that's just me.

And the clothes that the news reportes are wearing look like modern day business suits, while formal clothing  in mass effect seems to quite different from suits and ties.

[commandoclone87]

While independent states still exist on Earth, the Systems Alliance is the next logical step in geopolitical evolution. An example would be the ancient city states of Greece. Each independent, but still they were a nation united by common interests (though inter-city war did occasionally occur).

Each nation on earth is responsible for its own plot of land, but the Alliance is Earth's primary military and political representation on the intergalactic stage. As such, it falls to the Alliance parliament (also based on Earth) to handle extreme emergencies (i.e getting as many people off the planet when giant mechanical monsters arrive to turn us into tasty orange paste)

[Fixers0]

commandoclone87 wrote...

While independent states still exist on Earth, the Systems Alliance is the next logical step in geopolitical evolution. An example would be the ancient city states of Greece. Each independent, but still they were a nation united by common interests (though inter-city war did occasionally occur).

Each nation on earth is responsible for its own plot of land, but the Alliance is Earth's primary military and political representation on the intergalactic stage. As such, it falls to the Alliance parliament (also based on Earth) to handle extreme emergencies (i.e getting as many people off the planet when giant mechanical monsters arrive to turn us into tasty orange paste)

This is not quite true, While it is true that the Alliance Represents humanity and earth, the Headquarter and parliament of the Systems Alliance is located on Arcturus stations which i awalys believed is the most important military structure of the Systems Alliance and Humanity.

Modifié par Fixers0, 26 juillet 2011 - 05:52 .

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...
Or they just arrived from orbit.

Still doesn't prove your point, but we actually see a whole spaceport occupied by them.

But were are they? i havent' seen one uniform with 'US MARINES'

You have played the game? You too? And you have searched the whole city for them?

And the private shuttle's? they vanished too?

Ah, that would have been a perfect point proving that that was an Alliance Base, should you have actually played the game.

Or it could mean Bioware's being lazy again, like breaking the fourh wall at the end of Mass Effect 2 when they tried to expain the plot to us.

Or you should not try to debate if you don't like the answer. It's a fact that ANN exists, and that it exists in various languanges. Public channels do exist, and several channels have various versions, what's your problem with that?

Oh, I see, BioWare must be lazy.

Just in general wasn't the Alliance supposed to keep the Reaper exsitance silent, then i would make more sense if we seen foreign news reporst, but hey that's just me.

Did you watch all of the trailer? There is a scientist saying exactly that.

And do you think that public channels are controlled by someone, really?

And the clothes that the news reportes are wearing look like modern day business suits, while formal clothing  in mass effect seems to quite different from suits and ties.

That's because EA or Crabcat or whoever shot that video couldn't create brand new clothing. It's not a matter of being lazy or greedy. It just can't happen sometimes.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon keeps taking the bait.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Phaedon keeps taking the bait.

No, I am just not generous enough to acknowledge everyone who is idiotic, or closes their ears to other arguments as a troll.

That would mean that half of the debates here are started by trolls.

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

(snip)

Well this post sums it up pretty, we have know idea what is going on, we can make a lot guesses, whether the shuttles were stationed on earth or came from orbit, neither of them really isn't confirmed or denied, so in this case both of are just speculating about it, with neither of them being an anwster 

See we base all our conclusion on the information thatis or isn't told to use, which all leads us to making different conclusion because we all interpreted information differently  and since all of us tend  to interpreted information in a way that could support our point of view.

I'm just asking these questions here because i'm confused, and i'm actually begining to wonder if was such a good idea to ask in the first place considering we all like to anwser them in the same way interpreted the questions.

My point still remains that i question some of the design choices made in these trailer and if they will differnt in main game, but only after the game is released i can check to see which anwser is right, and even then we might debat pages over because no specific proof is given.

These discussion always tend to end up,'' i'm right because of blabla'' and ''no my point is right because of blalbla''.

So i still have my doubts and i will see if they are true or false once the game is out.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

That would mean that half of the debates here are started by trolls.

In truth, it's probably more than half. Which is what makes BSN so osm.