863 réponses à ce sujet

[Fixers0]

legion999 wrote...

Wow this hasn't been locked yet? Also OP maybe the Alliance is evacuating civillians because it has places to evacuate them to? Like a ship, colony or space station.

Stratigical thinking could comes in handy during an invasion, not just the cliched 'Evacuate people'.

[AdmiralCheez]

The Alliance represents human interests. Earth has a sh*t-ton of humans on it. Durr.

[Fixers0]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The Alliance represents human interests. Earth has a sh*t-ton of humans on it. Durr.

It was also desgined to operate ouside of the solar system, and of course to make profit.

[didymos1120]

Phaedon wrote...

And yes, if the entire spaceport ends up being populated by nothing but Alliance shuttles then that means that it's an Alliance spaceport.

Don't see why not.  They've got an entire museum on Earth.

ETA: And let's not forget the hundreds of Alliance military recruitment offices that must exist and operate freely on Earth.

Modifié par didymos1120, 26 juillet 2011 - 09:34 .

[Canned Bullets]

Fixers0 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The Alliance represents human interests. Earth has a sh*t-ton of humans on it. Durr.

It was also desgined to operate ouside of the solar system, and of course to make profit.

Think of the Alliance as the UN for Humans, sure the countries on Earth have their own Militaries, but if the entire planet is getting skull****ed and there's no safe place to go on Earth, then they need the Alliance to evacuate civilians and other personnel off-world. Also Earth is the homeworld for Humans, so it would make sense that the Alliance would help out the Human HomeWorld.

Modifié par Canned Bullets, 26 juillet 2011 - 09:26 .

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

It was also desgined to operate ouside of the solar system, and of course to make profit.

No, it's not a business, and it never was.  It was NOT designed to turn profits.  It began as a cooperative effort to facilitate colonization.  The fact that some of those colonies eventually made people money is irrelevant to what the SA was created to do.

[legion999]

Fixers0 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Wow this hasn't been locked yet? Also OP maybe the Alliance is evacuating civillians because it has places to evacuate them to? Like a ship, colony or space station.

Stratigical thinking could comes in handy during an invasion, not just the cliched 'Evacuate people'.

The Alliance has two options either attack the Reapers (pointlessly) or regroup elsewhere (ie retreat). While they're retreating they decide let's take some people to safety. What's hard to understand about that?

[Dean_the_Young]

Fixers0 wrote...

Images wrote...

nhsk wrote...

Hint: He is not out to prove anything, just to aggravate you and it seems he succeeds. Let the special boy be and ignore him until his mother sends him to bed.

Ah...slightly awkward but fixers doesn't have a mother...since the incident. The attendants at the facility should tie him down securely though.

I'm still free behind my own desk though,

Not really. Short of living in Somalia, there remain things you can't publicly say and do no matter where you are.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

He keeps trying to say to make profit you have to destroy nearly your entire economy...then he changes from, SA has NO business on Earth to,well just because SA has stuff there doesn't mean they are in charge of it,to I'm a giant troll feed me logic so I can spew crap.Next he's gonna say HurrDurr give me one credible source that alchemy can't turn copper into gold

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 26 juillet 2011 - 10:04 .

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the Awesome button marketing team, wan't to make this game a simple as possible, thus they are going to do the most recgonizable futuristic scenario, that one organisation runs a earth all on its own.

I love how anything he doesn't like (which basically means "Contradicts my unecessarily convoluted, counter-factual, loonball theories") gets attributed to some conspiracy by THE EVIL FORCES OF MARKETING to ruin his day. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

didymos1120 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

It was also desgined to operate ouside of the solar system, and of course to make profit.

No, it's not a business, and it never was.  It was NOT designed to turn profits.  It began as a cooperative effort to facilitate colonization.  The fact that some of those colonies eventually made people money is irrelevant to what the SA was created to do.

Excellent point sir...he hasn't shown us where it says the SA was designed to make a profit.

Also why in the blue hell would they try and churn out a profit when the galaxy is burning,and how if there aren't any people to make money from?

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 26 juillet 2011 - 10:07 .

[EarthAlliance]

the alliance represents all the humans!! like the batarian hegemony or the salarian union,why are people disscussing ,its looks like you guys never player the games or reads the codex and the novels

[Sgt Stryker]

EarthAlliance wrote...

the alliance represents all the humans!! like the batarian hegemony or the salarian union,why are people disscussing ,its looks like you guys never player the games or reads the codex and the novels

That's a damn good question. To paraphrase everyone's favorite ME1 villain, this thread has no purpose!

[Massadonious1]

I think Fixers is arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. Even Zulu left this thread a long time ago.

[Dexi]

Lol you guys still at it?

[StellarMagic]

Rather shocking really...

The Systems Alliance is an alliance of the majority of Earth's nation states and human colonies... So of course they're going to protect Earth. It's like a combination NATO - UN.

[CroGamer002]

^Thanks Arcian for bumping this thread that has to die.

[Zulu_DFA]

@Fixers

Hey, buddy, do you know people think you're my alternate account now? That's quite unexpected, remembering how skeptical and not buying into my major theories you always were... Have you been struck by a lightning or something?

OK, probably that's not my business. But if you intend to continue holding the line against the ignorance here (futile intention, I must say), here is a few protips. Just some considerations that I think haven't been brought to the table yet, in one compact heap.

First, if you study the Codex carefully, namely the articles about the FTL drives and such things, you'll know that it's only the military that enjoys super-fast FTL travel. In commercial spacecraft more economical and less powerful propulsion systems are used. So the voyages aboard those Kowloon freighters across star systems and betwen them must take months or maybe even years. Some craft may be even isn't equipped with FTL systems and can travel only inside star sytems with mass relays. In any case, the cost of hawling payload around the galaxy is astronomical (quite literally!). That's why the idea that Earth serves as the main industrial hub of the Alliance is just plain retarded. It's way cheapter to build an automated factory on Eden Prime to assemble harvesters or whatever the agricultural hardware it needs there in situ, than to haul thousands of tons back and forth across all those light years. Earth could have enjoyed some intertellar commerce if the Solar system were a hub, or at least connecting two different settled systems, but no, the Solar System is a dead end in the mass relay network. Therefore all that is sent there stays there.

That darn "new golden age" we're told about is just it: resourses are being sent to Earth and stay there. Primarilly it's eezo and food, although some rare metals can be on the list too, if they are not to be found in the asteroid belt in the Solar system. We have multiple in-world references to the industrial might and self-reliance of the extra-solar economy: fleets are built mainly at the Arcturus station itself (both by the Codex and confirmed by Joker), mining colonies and outposts throughout the Attican Traverse and the Skyllian Verge (planet descriptions), industry and commerce on Terra Nova (planet description in the BDTS, and Shadow Broker files on Cerberus), agrarian production on Eden Prime and some other colonies (Kaidan's cousin), etc. But give me one reference to something carrying a "Made on Earth" label on this side of the Charon relay, except for TIM's Marlboros... Hell, I bet taking out Lord Darrius alone genereated more economic benefits for the Alliance than the entire initial investment in it's creation made by those 18 Earth nations.

Some try to sell us the idea that that Earth is indispensible as the only source of colonists to settle new worlds, but this issue is already becoming less and less critical too, given the progress of the AI research, which is going to vastly improve productivity of labor of the existing colonists thus freeing some of them for enrollment in a new wave of expansion.

Numbers simply dont f*cking matter in this kind of future. The Geth have 0 (zero) "colonists". On the other hand, the Krogans in their time had a great numerical and reproductive advantage over the rest of the galaxy, and look how that turned out! The only things that matter when it comes to inter-racial competition and hostilities are: whose side the "deadliest SoB in space" is on, and how efficienlty the sides can deploy that SoB.


Also, let's clear up the Alliance timeline, so to say:

2149 - Charter.
2157 - FCW, the Alliance acts w/o sanction from Earth, technically goes rogue.
2161 - Creates own Parliament - de facto independence. The Charter is no longer relevant - it hadn't devised no Parliament, which could make any further "amendments" to the Charter at its own discretion.
2165 - Recognized by the Citadel Council as the only political body that represents humans on the Galactic stage. That is, if the sovereign state of the Chinese Federation wants to take some matter to the Citadel it can only do so by relating through the Alliance diplomatic channels. Earth is no longer a boss, the Alliance is. And Earth is a client here, just as the Alliance-affiliated colonies.

Of course, serious cultural links remain and also the economic ones, but, as the Alliance spreads its wings and develops trade with the alien races (for real money for a change), Earth more and more becomes of a burden with its stupid golden age, funded by the dividends of the profits generated by the colonies.


Also, the Alliance Parliament's electoral system works so that it encourages the MPs to have the best interests of spacers in mind first and foremost and ahead of anyone elses' interests, when brain-farting out the legislation. Suppose there are spacers', colonies' and (maybe) Earth's seats on the Parliament. But as the parliament itself is situated aboard a space station, and in a star system without settled planets at that, the MPs automatically become spacers themselves, which means that if they run for a second term, they have to do it as spacers, while the colonies' and Earth's seats never have such thing as an incumbent trying to get re-elected. Therefore, all MPs are in tight competition for the sympathies of spacers. And the spacers are no doubt dominated by the military. So much for "democracy", lol.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 juillet 2011 - 01:42 .

[celuloid]

The King is back. (to give a bump to this trollish dying thread)

Modifié par celuloid, 27 juillet 2011 - 12:55 .

[celuloid]

I would say that the new Z-theory could be implemented if writers wanted to. But I still don't see the relevance to the topic:
Why is Alliance helping to evacuate Earth?
Simple answer: Because it has the capacity to do so. Alliance does not meta-game to see futility of fighting. It has no secret weapon. It just does its best to combat unknown extraterrestrial force. What a mind-boggling notion!

[Master Wolf]

So we are going to ask to all races of the galaxy to come help save Earth and we are puting in question why the Alliance an Human organization is helping defending Earth? xD

[dahoughtonuk]

I  have said before British Empire. it took months or years to cross the oceans. The industrial hub of the Empire was still Great Britain.

The Alliance colonies are undermanned and vulnerable.Earth probably wouldn't matter in a century or so. But right now it's essential.

And Zulu the Krogan are are demonstration of the importance of numbers. Not an arguement against it.

Modifié par dahoughtonuk, 27 juillet 2011 - 01:43 .

[dreman9999]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

@Fixers

Hey, buddy, do you know people think you're my alternate account now? That's quite unexpected, remembering how skeptical and not buying into my major theories you always were... Have you been struck by a lightning or something?

OK, probably that's not my business. But if you intend to continue holding the line against the ignorance here (futile intention, I must say), here is a few protips. Just some considerations that I think haven't been brought to the table yet, in one compact heap.

First, if you study the Codex carefully, namely the articles about the FTL drives and such things, you'll know that it's only the military that enjoys super-fast FTL travel. In commercial spacecraft more economical and less powerful propulsion systems are used. So the voyages aboard those Kowloon freighters across star systems and betwen them must take months or maybe even years. Some craft may be even isn't equipped with FTL systems and can travel only inside star sytems with mass relays. In any case, the cost of hawling payload around the galaxy is astronomical (quite literally!). That's why the idea that Earth serves as the main industrial hub of the Alliance is just plain retarded. It's way cheapter to build an automated factory on Eden Prime to assemble harvesters or whatever the agricultural hardware it needs there in situ, than to haul thousands of tons back and forth across all those light years. Earth could have enjoyed some intertellar commerce if the Solar system were a hub, or at least connecting two different settled systems, but no, the Solar System is a dead end in the mass relay network. Therefore all that is sent there stays there.

That darn "new golden age" we're told about is just it: resourses are being sent to Earth and stay there. Primarilly it's eezo and food, although some rare metals can be on the list too, if they are not to be found in the asteroid belt in the Solar system. We have multiple in-world references to the industrial might and self-reliance of the extra-solar economy: fleets are built mainly at the Arcturus station itself (both by the Codex and confirmed by Joker), mining colonies and outposts throughout the Attican Traverse and the Skyllian Verge (planet descriptions), industry and commerce on Terra Nova (planet description in the BDTS, and Shadow Broker files on Cerberus), agrarian production on Eden Prime and some other colonies (Kaidan's cousin), etc. But give me one reference to something carrying a "Made on Earth" label on this side of the Charon relay, except for TIM's Marlboros... Hell, I bet taking out Lord Darrius alone genereated more economic benefits for the Alliance than the entire initial investment in it's creation made by those 18 Earth nations.

Some try to sell us the idea that that Earth is indispensible as the only source of colonists to settle new worlds, but this issue is already becoming less and less critical too, given the progress of the AI research, which is going to vastly improve productivity of labor of the existing colonists thus freeing some of them for enrollment in a new wave of expansion.

Numbers simply dont f*cking matter in this kind of future. The Geth have 0 (zero) "colonists". On the other hand, the Krogans in their time had a great numerical and reproductive advantage over the rest of the galaxy, and look how that turned out! The only things that matter when it comes to inter-racial competition and hostilities are: whose side the "deadliest SoB in space" is on, and how efficienlty the sides can deploy that SoB.


Also, let's clear up the Alliance timeline, so to say:

2149 - Charter.
2157 - FCW, the Alliance acts w/o sanction from Earth, technically goes rogue.
2161 - Creates own Parliament - de facto independence. The Charter is no longer relevant - it hadn't devised no Parliament, which could make any further "amendments" to the Charter at its own discretion.
2165 - Recognized by the Citadel Council as the only political body that represents humans on the Galactic stage. That is, if the sovereign state of the Chinese Federation wants to take some matter to the Citadel it can only do so by relating through the Alliance diplomatic channels. Earth is no longer a boss, the Alliance is. And Earth is a client here, just as the Alliance-affiliated colonies.

Of course, serious cultural links remain and also the economic ones, but, as the Alliance spreads its wings and develops trade with the alien races (for real money for a change), Earth more and more becomes of a burden with its stupid golden age, funded by the dividends of the profits generated by the colonies.


Also, the Alliance Parliament's electoral system works so that it encourages the MPs to have the best interests of spacers in mind first and foremost and ahead of anyone elses' interests, when brain-farting out the legislation. Suppose there are spacers', colonies' and (maybe) Earth's seats on the Parliament. But as the parliament itself is situated aboard a space station, and in a star system without settled planets at that, the MPs automatically become spacers themselves, which means that if they run for a second term, they have to do it as spacers, while the colonies' and Earth's seats never have such thing as an incumbent trying to get re-elected. Therefore, all MPs are in tight competition for the sympathies of spacers. And the spacers are no doubt dominated by the military. So much for "democracy", lol.

1. Their is nothing that states the fastest of ftl drives are military only or the basics of common ftl drive speeds.
2.Maybe if you understand that the vast majority of humanity is on earth you would understand why it's a major soure of economics for the colonies. Also, to make more colonies you need people....Where do you thingk the people are?
3.Geth don't eat........Geth don't even need bodies...Making colonisation pointless for geth....Humans arn't geth....Korgan never wanted to settle down, they wanted to fight wars.
4.Driods are to slow and clunky to be used farming and mining.....
5. And I think you need to readup on you time line and concepts...
http://masseffect.wi...CE_-_2183_CE.29

The alliance banded together the deal with a threat to humanity. Do to the rapid expation of coloies, the alliance need to make order and use representation to do so. And the alliance still used earth to relay humanities interest.
Think of it this way...The point of the colonies to to expand humanity........You need humans to do that....And to supply solders for the alliance army...they also need humans......And they are on earth.....Why abbandon a for of resupplyment?