863 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Wait, the US absorbed Canada? Hah, owned.

Mexico absorbed both.

[Ajosraa]

marshalleck wrote...

It's almost as though people expect human's sense of national identity to vanish in the ~28 years humanity has been aware of a greater galactic civilization beyond the bounds of our corner of the Milky Way.

Though the time may vary, I belive the concept of humans loosing their sence of national identity in this ME example makes sence to a degree.

I use the example of how people in the USA just like 100 years ago would have put more pationage towards their respective states then the nation as a whole.  Like how people would say "Im a Virginian, Im a Carolinin, Im from New York" first during those days, But over time as people communicated and came together they started to loose that feeling a bit, though it dident tottaly go away.

The concept could evolve from national focus, to perhaps supranational focus, overtime. Just gotta keep pushing it, politics 101;P.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Wait, the US absorbed Canada? Hah, owned.

Mexico absorbed both.

FFFFUUUUUU--

[Someone With Mass]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
In the situation in question - the massive Reaper invasion of Earth - if the Alliance attempts to evacuate as many people off Earth as possible, the Alliance will be destroyed.

Okay, let's just say that the Alliance ignores Earth, and everyone there dies, and then the Reapers are taking over all Earth's resources and everything of importance in the cluster, like the shipyards and all the strategic information that might be there. Then what?

Is humanity just supposed to believe in Shepard's ability to save them?

[nhsk]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
In the situation in question - the massive Reaper invasion of Earth - if the Alliance attempts to evacuate as many people off Earth as possible, the Alliance will be destroyed.

Okay, let's just say that the Alliance ignores Earth, and everyone there dies, and then the Reapers are taking over all Earth's resources and everything of importance in the cluster, like the shipyards and all the strategic information that might be there. Then what?

Is humanity just supposed to believe in Shepard's ability to save them?

Yes, that is the point of such tales...

[Dave of Canada]

Phaedon wrote...

The Alliance has facilities both off and on-world. Why would they hold the court martial at their HQ?

Considering they're using Shepard as a scapegoat to appease the Batarians, dragging him to the Citadel and having him put on trial there would be the most logical path (because then the Batarians could play more of a part in it and it looks like the Alliance and the Council doesn't support Shepard's actions).

Though if it were to be hosted somewhere else, symbolically it would be better if the Alliance headquarters (and government) themselves trialed Shepard rather than one of their facilities on Earth. Batarians might not like either, though I feel they might hate it more if he/she is dragged to Earth away from Batarian eyes.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:06 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Which should've been hosted at Arcturus Station.

What difference does it make? Oh, right. None.

[Zathas]

marshalleck wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

Wich is the nowadays G20, minus Mexico and Canada, because they were absorbed into the United North American States.

Wait, the US absorbed Canada? Hah, owned. 

Fallout did it too... poor Canada.

[GreenDragon37]

Fixers0 wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

eh...Dont think that really Constitutes as a "Retcon" Zulu...oversight maybe? *shrug* But still why wouldnt the systems alliance....help the home system?

Because the Alliance  has absolutly no interest in defending earth.

I'm sorry, but that is the dumbest statement I have read in a long time.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
In the situation in question - the massive Reaper invasion of Earth - if the Alliance attempts to evacuate as many people off Earth as possible, the Alliance will be destroyed.

If you have a human organization with spaceships and weapons that exists to protect humans, then it's called the Alliance.

If you have a human organization with spaceships and weapons that claims to protect humans, but doesn't care about anyone but their soldiers then it's called Cerberus.

[marshalleck]

Ajosraa wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's almost as though people expect human's sense of national identity to vanish in the ~28 years humanity has been aware of a greater galactic civilization beyond the bounds of our corner of the Milky Way.

Though the time may vary, I belive the concept of humans loosing their sence of national identity in this ME example makes sence to a degree.

I use the example of how people in the USA just like 100 years ago would have put more pationage towards their respective states then the nation as a whole.  Like how people would say "Im a Virginian, Im a Carolinin, Im from New York" first during those days, But over time as people communicated and came together they started to loose that feeling a bit, though it dident tottaly go away.

The concept could evolve from national focus, to perhaps supranational focus, overtime. Just gotta keep pushing it, politics 101;P.

I was using "national" more in the sense of a biological nation on a species-wide level, not the sociopolitical sense. 

I don't know a better word to describe it, so I'm slightly expanding the definition a bit to reflect the greater "species awareness" of humans in the ME future, which began to dissolve the old ethnic and cultural distinctions as humanity was introduced not to just one alien culture, but a multitude of them throughout the galaxy.

Modifié par marshalleck, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:12 .

[Cainne Chapel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

The earth is home to 11 BILLION humans.
The Colonies maybe home to a few hundred million.

If we discount the plotholes in some ME2's planet descriptions, the figure of ~30 million in the colonies would be more accurate.

But the population of the Geth "realm" is 0 (zero). Strangely, it is quite formidable.

Yes the Population IS 0.  Probably because they dont see the Geth as Organic Living beings... which they aren't.  They're programs essentially Mobile Platforms So that 0 denomination makes sense. 
As for the 30 million sure we can go with that, I was erring on the side of larger numbers just in case, which makes the comparision and need to protect earth even greater.  Why protect less than 1% of your species if you cant protect more?

Cainne Chapel wrote...



Why WOULDNT the alliance protect the BULK of humanity from space-borne invanders? It would stand to reason they have the most ships and space borne fire power, why WOULDNT they chip in to protect the majority of the species?

Because they can't. It's the Reapers we're talking about. Sacrificing fleets in a banzai attack will solve nothing.

Yes but attacking the reapers has nothing to do with it, protecting the largest source of Humanity however, Does.  Cant have an army or an Alliance with... no humans now can ya?

Cainne Chapel wrote...



If they'd sacrifice 8 cruisers to save 3 council members why wouldnt they at least ATTEMPT to save 11 billion humans?

First of all, let me remind you that the deafault Sheploo is apparently more practical about advising to sacrifice the Alliance fleet. Namely, he doesn't do that.

And secondly, in your rainbow bunny paragon universe, the Alliance is weakened due saving the Council. By extrapolation, you can conjectrure that sacrificing more ships in pursuing more idealistic goals will result in more weakness for the Alliance.

In the situation in question - the massive Reaper invasion of Earth - if the Alliance attempts to evacuate as many people off Earth as possible, the Alliance will be destroyed.

But why wouldnt they?? Sure there will be casualties but if they can save more than will be sacrificed they would most definately try, its the home planet of the SPECIES, where 99% of the species still remains, you think the alliance can be effect with the 30 million people you theorized would exist if the sol system got wiped out?  Surely youc an't be that daft.  Besides if they cant protect their home planet or at least try... then why bother being a military force in the galaxy at large?  What purpose or sense of power would they have at all then?

[Someone With Mass]

Okay, it makes one difference if his trial is hosted on Arcturus station. The Reapers will have a much easier time killing him.

[nhsk]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Considering they're using Shepard as a scapegoat to appease the Batarians, dragging him to the Citadel and having him put on trial there would be the most logical path (because then the Batarians could play more of a part in it and it looks like the Alliance and the Council doesn't support Shepard's actions).

Though if it were to be hosted somewhere else, symbolically it would be better if the Alliance headquarters (and government) themselves trialed Shepard rather than one of their facilities on Earth.

Just like USA refuses to let their war criminals being tried at the international court like everyone else who actually signed that treaty?
I guess if the alliance court finds him guilty he would probably be turned over to Council justice, maybe sending him further along to a trial by Batarians if found guilty.

Modifié par nhsk, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:08 .

[Phaedon]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Considering they're using Shepard as a scapegoat to appease the Batarians, dragging him to the Citadel and having him put on trial there would be the most logical path (because then the Batarians could play more of a part in it and it looks like the Alliance and the Council doesn't support Shepard's actions).

No, that's what makes no sense. At all.

If Shepard is a spectre, then the Alliance would have to find evidence (that is shoddy at best, by the way) to have the Council revoke Shepard's Spectre status and drag him or her back into the Citadel. There was an eye witness who witnessed Saren murder someone from three feet away. And the Council didn't revoke Saren's status.

If Shepard isn't a Spectre, then that makes no sense what-so-ever.

Shepard is an Alliance soldier or citinzen in both cases. An Alliance court martial is the only thing that makes sense.

You have yet to explain why it's a retcon or a plothole that they decided not to host the trial there.

Though if it were to be hosted somewhere else, symbolically it would be better if the Alliance headquarters (and government) themselves trialed Shepard rather than one of their facilities on Earth. Batarians might not like either, though I feel they might hate it more if he/she is dragged to Earth away from Batarian eyes.

Symbolically? Earth is the best place, then, symbolically, because it shows that all humanity wants Shepard down, not just Alliance HQ.

Modifié par Phaedon, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:11 .

[Mister Mida]

NVM

Modifié par Mister Mida, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:13 .

[Balek-Vriege]

It makes total sense. The Alliance's natural role is protecting Humanity and its interest in the Galaxy. What is more important than protecting and evacuating a planet which makes up 90-95% of the human population, was humanity's only home not more than 60ish years prior, and is still the core economic, military and political centre of human civilization. Realistically, it's possible that without Earth, humanity could become an endangered species, if not extinct.

Now what would be the point of the Alliance if it just let a huge alien fleet just pass by Arcturus Station and take over or wipe out all life on Earth?

"Hey look at that! An impossibly large fleet is heading for Earth!"

"Not our problem, our capital is here on Arcturus Station. Protecting this 5km wide installation is more important than saving billions of human lives on Earth."

"Your right Sir, sorry."

Survival of the human race is more important than political jurisdiction.   Edit:  Even though it is the Alliance's jurisdiction to protect humanity from alien threats.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:15 .

[Someone With Mass]

Not to mention that it's abundantly clear that the Council doesn't want to meddle in human affairs.

[Iakus]

The Systems Alliance are humanity's representation in space; miltarilly,econimically, and diplomatically. The represent humans in the Citadel, they explore "strange new worlds" nd they fight off alien attacks.

So if an attacking armada reaches Earth and begins laying siege to it, it only makes sense that the Systems Alliance would be the ones to respond to it, to try to fight it off or to save as many civilians as possible otherwise.

As to why the trial is on Earth rather than Arcturus Station, I don't know. Maybe it'll be explained in ME3.

[Bnol]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bnol wrote...

The OP is either a genius troll or just lacks all common sense. I guess I will bite.

Whether it is because of the political ties of Earth's nations belonging to the Alliance, social ties of Earth being the human homeworld and possessing the vast majority of the human population, or the economic ties of the great corporations and industrial infrastructure that produce most of the Alliance funding/production being based on Earth, it is in the Alliance's best interest to help Earth.

Wrong.

Industrial infrastructure that produce most of the Alliance funding/production is based in the colonies.

The Alliance fleets are constructed at the Arcturus Station. The there is no Eezo in the Solar system. Most factories and mining stations are completely automated. It's the future. Wake up.

The colonies provide raw materials that are funneled back to Earth.  Lets just quote the codex: "The homeworld and capital of humanity is entering a new golden age. The resource wealth of a dozen settled colonies and a hundred industrial outposts flows back to Earth, fueling great works of industry, commerce, and art."

I wonder what those 11 billion people do all day.

Modifié par Bnol, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:14 .

[Lycans Bane]

What should be taken into account in regards to alliance aid on earth is the reapers. no matter how you look at it big sentient bio-mechanical aliens which personally think a kraken would look like if it was a space ship equals very bad news for the galaxy. now as the reapers are attacking earth it makes sense that the alliance will use earth as a staging ground for futile attemps at defeating the reapers en masse. as such it makes sense to evacuate civillians as they would just get in the way, or get turned into a husk and try to kill alliance soldiers.

[marshalleck]

Bnol wrote...

I wonder what those 11 billion people do all day.

Watch Jerry Springer's head in a jar host daytime trash talkshows, and get fat. According to Zulu, anyway.

[GreenDragon37]

I think Zulu is just trolling. We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population. We'd be screwed.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:20 .

[marshalleck]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I think Zulu is just trolling. We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population. We'd be screwed.

More like 99.75%.