863 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I think Zulu is just trolling. We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population. We'd be screwed.

Actually, not really. We do lose a symbol and a lot of billion humans but not 90%.

Still better to evacuate them with shuttles rather than try to put shuttles fight against the Reapers.

[JayhartRIC]

marshalleck wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

It's says nothing about expect for that it was once founded by them, and that they get some political support,

Look at it for a political standpoint, what point is there to gain by pointlessly defending earth for a day or two? 

It says repeatedly that nations of Earth are members of the Systems Alliance. Read your codex. 

This

[GreenDragon37]

Phaedon wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I think Zulu is just trolling. We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population. We'd be screwed.

Actually, not really. We do lose a symbol and a lot of billion humans but not 90%.

Still better to evacuate them with shuttles rather than try to put shuttles fight against the Reapers.

The point is we'd lose most of the Human population, and we'd look weak in the eyes of the galaxy. 90% was just me throwing something out there.

[The Elder King]

Phaedon wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I think Zulu is just trolling. We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population. We'd be screwed.

Actually, not really. We do lose a symbol and a lot of billion humans but not 90%.

Still better to evacuate them with shuttles rather than try to put shuttles fight against the Reapers.

You're right. It's probably a bigger number. There are surely less than one billion humans in the colonies.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I think Zulu is just trolling. We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population. We'd be screwed.

Actually, not really. We do lose a symbol and a lot of billion humans but not 90%.

Still better to evacuate them with shuttles rather than try to put shuttles fight against the Reapers.

Well, if we grant Zulu his figure of 30 million colonists, and the game usually cites a population of about 12 billion humans in ME future, so losing Earth (with 100% casualties) would mean 99.75% of the population bought the farm. 

That's pretty  catastrophic. We'd be batarian slaver bait in no time. The end.

[Sgt Stryker]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Wrong.

Industrial infrastructure that produce most of the Alliance funding/production is based in the colonies.

[citation needed]

The Alliance fleets are constructed at the Arcturus Station. The there is no Eezo in the Solar system. Most factories and mining stations are completely automated. It's the future. Wake up.

What, you mean like this refinery?

[Someone With Mass]

hhh89 wrote...
You're right. It's probably a bigger number. There are surely less than one billion humans in the colonies.

I think it's 50 million at best. And I don't think they can support a war machine like the Alliance all by themselves.

Especially if the Reapers are going after them too.

[Zulu_DFA]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In the situation in question - the massive Reaper invasion of Earth - if the Alliance attempts to evacuate as many people off Earth as possible, the Alliance will be destroyed.

Okay, let's just say that the Alliance ignores Earth, and everyone there dies, and then the Reapers are taking over all Earth's resources and everything of importance in the cluster, like the shipyards and all the strategic information that might be there. Then what?

Is humanity just supposed to believe in Shepard's ability to save them?

While the Reapers are busy harvesting Earth, the Alliance has time to come up with a better plan to stop the Reapers than "we fight or we die". Such a better plan would involve some kind of super-weapon, or a virus, or something else, that might actually hurt the Reapers. Bonus points if you saved the Colector Base and  TIM can put a million puppies in a giant blender to figure out some weak spots on the Reapers. When the Alliance is as much ready as it can be, it will launch the general offensive. Bonus points if the aliens' fleets get sacrificed first in the process. Then there might be a chance that the Humanity might persevere as a species, even if 99.9% of it dies.

By contrast, if the Alliance attempts to evacuate the Earth (which is impossible), its fleet will be destroyed by the Reapers. Given that the stupid aliens seem to be doing the same thing (with the same result), there won't be any force to be put to work when TIM or Batarians or whoever come up with the deus ex machina. Then the Reapers proceed unrestrained to harvesting 100% of sapient life in the galaxy.

99.9% < 100%.

0.01% > 0%

Therefore it's a plain outright retaded act of folly for the Alliance to try evacuating Earth's population from under the Reapers' claws.

[Dave of Canada]

Phaedon wrote...

Shepard is an Alliance soldier or citinzen in both cases. An Alliance court martial is the only thing that makes sense.

If Shepard is a Spectre: Everything that happened was outside his/her jurisdiction, the only people who commands them is the Council and they'd have to handle it. Rather than the Alliance, which Shepard doesn't technically answer to, handling the situation.

In addition to this, having Batarians threatening a war with all of humanity (which may be the entire Council or a representative) would lead to the Council do what's best: scapegoat. They've got a history of scapegoating other people / species to protect their interests, a Batarian war isn't in their interests.

If Shepard isn't a Spectre: Shepard has to answer the Council AND the Alliance (which Shepard isn't part of anymore), the Council might judge him/her as an enemy of the Council (which the Alliance is part of), having him be shunned by the entire galactic community shows that even the galaxy's hero isn't safe.

Both: The Batarians already don't respect the Council, it wouldn't be out of the question for the Paragon/Renegade Councils to try and use Shepard's trial as an olive branch to the Batarians.

Symbolically? Earth is the best place, then, symbolically, because it shows that all humanity wants Shepard down, not just Alliance HQ.

Or they might view it as the Alliance trying to ignore Shepard by not dealing with him(her) themselves in their own political building with their leadership by dragging him to a planet where the Alliance doesn't have much involvement as a whole.

[Ajosraa]

marshalleck wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It's almost as though people expect human's sense of national identity to vanish in the ~28 years humanity has been aware of a greater galactic civilization beyond the bounds of our corner of the Milky Way.

Though the time may vary, I belive the concept of humans loosing their sence of national identity in this ME example makes sence to a degree.

I use the example of how people in the USA just like 100 years ago would have put more pationage towards their respective states then the nation as a whole.  Like how people would say "Im a Virginian, Im a Carolinin, Im from New York" first during those days, But over time as people communicated and came together they started to loose that feeling a bit, though it dident tottaly go away.

The concept could evolve from national focus, to perhaps supranational focus, overtime. Just gotta keep pushing it, politics 101;P.

I was using "national" more in the sense of a biological nation on a species-wide level, not the sociopolitical sense. 

I don't know a better word to describe it, so I'm slightly expanding the definition a bit to reflect the greater "species awareness" of humans in the ME future, which began to dissolve the old ethnic and cultural distinctions as humanity was introduced not to just one alien culture, but a multitude of them throughout the galaxy.

This may or may not be pertinent, but Thane also described similar feelings among some Drell youth conserning their "old ways" and how some Drell feel that they are loosing their culture to Alien influences during one of his conversations. So its to be predicted at least a bit.

And nationality in the sence of biology is a bit of why the Systems Alliance even had the chance to form in the first place. Since the whole discovery of other intelligent life motivated its creation.  But I do understand your argument that people wouldent JUST forget who they were all a sudden.

[GreenDragon37]

The point is if we lose Earth and all of the people on it, the Alliance will lose it's power and standing. Sure, Humanity will have a few colonies left, but not enough to keep our Council seat and be "Galactic Defenders" (Paragons) or "Galactic Overlords" (Renegades). Most of the Alliance's population and its major recruitment center will be gone.

[Someone With Mass]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Wrong.

Industrial infrastructure that produce most of the Alliance funding/production is based in the colonies.

[citation needed]

The Alliance fleets are constructed at the Arcturus Station. The there is no Eezo in the Solar system. Most factories and mining stations are completely automated. It's the future. Wake up.

What, you mean like this refinery?

And guess how humanity has been making human biotics during the past thirty years. They're detonating some of those facilities.

Also, Anderson infiltrated one of them in Revelation. It was far from automated.

[Phaedon]

For some reason I thought that the big colonies like Terra Nova had millions of humans. Silly me.

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
You're right. It's probably a bigger number. There are surely less than one billion humans in the colonies.

I think it's 50 million at best. And I don't think they can support a war machine like the Alliance all by themselves.

Especially if the Reapers are going after them too.

I agree. They can maybe grow after the war, but humanity will never reach the same level of power they had before ME3.

Modifié par hhh89, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:31 .

[Someone With Mass]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
*snip*

There are so many ways that plan can easily backfire, I don't even want to start and try to explain it.

[GreenDragon37]

Phaedon wrote...

For some reason I thought that the big colonies like Terra Nova had millions of humans. Silly me.

It does, but it's a poor replacement population for Earth. Do you wanna save millions or billions?

[Someone With Mass]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

The point is if we lose Earth and all of the people on it, the Alliance will lose it's power and standing. Sure, Humanity will have a few colonies left, but not enough to keep our Council seat and be "Galactic Defenders" (Paragons) or "Galactic Overlords" (Renegades). Most of the Alliance's population and its major recruitment center will be gone.

And we'd be easy bait for the batarians and other races/factions that will take advantage of this.

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Also, Anderson infiltrated one of them in Revelation. It was far from automated.

Wasn't that a batarian facility?

[Zulu_DFA]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I think Zulu is just trolling.

I'm not.

GreenDragon37 wrote...



We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population.

99.7% by my estimate.

GreenDragon37 wrote...


We'd be screwed.

No we won't be.

If we lose 90% of the fleet, then we'll be screwed.

[Someone With Mass]

marshalleck wrote...
Wasn't that a batarian facility?

Yeah, but still. Point is that they're not automated.

[GreenDragon37]

Someone With Mass wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

The point is if we lose Earth and all of the people on it, the Alliance will lose it's power and standing. Sure, Humanity will have a few colonies left, but not enough to keep our Council seat and be "Galactic Defenders" (Paragons) or "Galactic Overlords" (Renegades). Most of the Alliance's population and its major recruitment center will be gone.

And we'd be easy bait for the batarians and other races/factions that will take advantage of this.

Exactly. However, I'm sure the other races, especially the Batarians, will be reeling from the war. However, because we are one of the youngest space-sparing species, losing our home will hurt a lot more than say, losing Thessia or Palaven, because the Council races have had thousands of years for growth outside of their systems, we've had barely any.

[The Elder King]

Phaedon wrote...

For some reason I thought that the big colonies like Terra Nova had millions of humans. Silly me.

 I don't remember if Terra Nova or Elysium is the biggest human colony, but Terra Nova doesn't reach 5 millions in ME. Surely the number will be greater in ME2, but human colonies are relatively small, compared to the other species colonies.

[Raiil]

I don't see much of a logical reason not to save Earth. Besides the obvious sentimental factor, the soldiers needed to fight the war are from there, the financial and emotional backing for the Alliance is going to be secured on Earth. and if you're trying to save humanity from annihilation and humanity is scattered across the galaxy thanks to colonisation, it'd be easier to concentrate on the one planet with the most people rather than scatter your forces all over the place.

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Wasn't that a batarian facility?

Yeah, but still. Point is that they're not automated.

Right, I was just curious. 

[GreenDragon37]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I think Zulu is just trolling.

I'm not.

GreenDragon37 wrote...



We lose Earth, we lose over 90% of the Human population.

99.7% by my estimate.

GreenDragon37 wrote...


We'd be screwed.

No we won't be.

If we lose 90% of the fleet, then we'll be screwed.

The Reapers will come after the colonies and the fleets. Earth isn't their only target, Zulu. Defending our colonies will divide us. We'd be screwed wither way. Do you want the Reapers to play a "divide and conquer" war? You know, the thing they're good at?

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 23 juillet 2011 - 11:39 .