557 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

FieryDove wrote...
Its the Mordin stare maybe? So serious/stern.

:crying::mellow::lol:

[Dave of Canada]

I prefer voiced for a lot of reasons, though the biggest one is I'm capable of following the conversation that the protagonist is having with the companion even if I'm "surprised" by an option.

When I'm surprised by taking a non-voiced line in an entirely different context/tone, I can't follow the conversation for a brief moment and it takes me out far more than anything else.

[TEWR]

erynnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Wow is Cyber rude much?  And assumptions asssumptions on his/her part. Eth is a sexy young 'un! *HUGS* sweetie, how are you?

I'm doing good. I've got Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn playing behind me. How are you doing ery?

I like the gorilla named monkey. Doing good. I know you and don't always agree, and I don't think you are unimaginative at all. Silly silly arguments.

It is indeed silly. It all comes down to preference, and to that end a voice toggle as well as a protagonist animation toggle would work best, where the latter just causes it to focus on the back of the head of the PC.

FieryDove wrote...

We need Gorilla named Monkey for DA3! Make is so Bioware!

Jean Luc Picard demands a gorilla companion named Monkey for DA3! You must obey Bioware!

lobi wrote...

Sorry about any vitreol, I get a bit worked up on this issue.
And Etherial.. may wanna buy a diaper for that ape, just saying.

*flees before erynnar.

I shall housetrain him to fling his poop at my enemies

[erynnar]

lobi wrote...

Sorry about any vitreol, I get a bit worked up on this issue.
And Etherial.. may wanna buy a diaper for that ape, just saying.

*flees before erynnar.

ROFL!!! *HUGS*

[SilentK]

Oki =) a little of topic here but glad to see just a happy mood in this thread. Was pretty sure it would only be angry voices. Keep it up =) disagree in an agreeable way or something like it.

[FieryDove]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Jean Luc Picard demands a gorilla companion named Monkey for DA3! You must obey Bioware!

Too funny but...
I was drinking coffee!!!

Poor keyboard.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

SilentK wrote...

Oki =) a little of topic here but glad to see just a happy mood in this thread. Was pretty sure it would only be angry voices. Keep it up =) disagree in an agreeable way or something like it.

*runs up to the subject*

*stares at Silent*

*points at it*

*frowns angrily*

*points a thumb down*

[Sith Grey Warden]

I prefer silent for RPing purposes, but I find it unlikely that DA3 will be silent. I just hope a voiced protagonist won't keep us from having race options (human elf dwarf and maybe even qunari?). Also, I want to be able to actually know what my PC is going to say before he says it (not just a paraphrase). Maybe there could be an option to toggle displaying word-for-word what the character will say?

[Zeevico]

JohnEpler wrote...

People are allowed to prefer silent protagonist without being insulted about the level of imagination they show.

Only if you let them. You could also laugh maniacally and ban everyone who disagreed with you and thereupon retire to your secret villian's lair. The cleaning closet would do if you don't have one of those.

[phaonica]

In Exile wrote...

For me, control is about causing. I don't think expression has anything to do with control, because I don't ever express myself for the sake of expressing myself. I do it for some end. I need help, I want to express an opinion so it is understood, I want to make a joke... whatever it is I am trying to do, there is some thing I am trying to make happen.

Control, for me, is about the behaviour I am engaging in being an accurate attempt to produce a certain end.

Silent VO (along with the lack of expresssions & body language) makes it impossible for me to know what the attempt to convey is. And then that leaves me with the NPC reaction. But if the NPC reaction is wrong, I can't correct it, and I can't explore the reasons for it. It simply is. 

And this is why I dislike silent VO. 

When I am engaged in a conversation in DA2 or DAO,  I'm usually not thinking about illiciting a specific reaction from the NPC. For example, I'm not thinking to myself "Which of these options will earn friendship points with Merrill?" "Which of these options will make the Templar attack me?" I'm dont' think of it as searching for the dialog option that will get the reaction I want, I only think about how my character would express themselves given the situation, whatever belief system, fears, biases, and whatever that I've decided to give them.

In fact the only times I can specifically recall where I wanted a specific reaction from a character was when I had chosen which LI my character would romance and I was clearly pigeonholed into choosing specific dialog choices that didn't fit my character's belief system at all. That's no fault of the implementation of Voice, it's just a side effect of the way I decide which dialog choice I"m going to use.

[SilentK]

@  RinpocheSchnozberry      lol   

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Oh most definitely VOICED, I'm havin a hard time even contemplating playin DAO again because of the silence. I prefer my pc to have a voice most definately, I love the different attitude options, seriously never had as much fun playin a game as I have playin with a Hawke voiced pc and I want more lol. Sorry but I just adore male Hawke's voice n I know some think I'm nuts but oh well. I have a hard time playin a female Hawke cause of male Hawke's voice lol. Anyways more VO oh heck ya, I'd love, please n ty

I'm right there with you but for me it's FemHawke       I love to experiment with the tones.

Have two Hawkes who have been mostly diplomatic in Act 3 and they couldn't be more different from each other.

One sparkly goody two-shoe mage who firmly believes that all will end well if you just work hard and do your best. People are good and they will see that she only means well. She also romances a certain mage, the ending was a bit of downer for her poor girl. Think they will have a lot to talk about in a later game   =)    The other one is a coniving, scheming warrior who was only out to get power. She sounds so lovable and sweet, all the easier to get closer and stab you in the back. She had a rivalmance with a certain someone from Starkhaven, a political union is right up her alley.

Hmmm... They sound they same way, both being diplo mainly towards the end, but I still provide all the reasons and motivation for why they act the way they do so for me they feel very very different from each other. And that is what makes it fun for me.

[SilentK]

phaonica wrote...
When I am engaged in a conversation in DA2 or DAO,  I'm usually not thinking about illiciting a specific reaction from the NPC. For example, I'm not thinking to myself "Which of these options will earn friendship points with Merrill?" "Which of these options will make the Templar attack me?" I'm dont' think of it as searching for the dialog option that will get the reaction I want, I only think about how my character would express themselves given the situation, whatever belief system, fears, biases, and whatever that I've decided to give them.

In fact the only times I can specifically recall where I wanted a specific reaction from a character was when I had chosen which LI my character would romance and I was clearly pigeonholed into choosing specific dialog choices that didn't fit my character's belief system at all. That's no fault of the implementation of Voice, it's just a side effect of the way I decide which dialog choice I"m going to use.

Hmmm... For me when I'm playing a silent char it's not so much trying to get a specific reaction as how could you possibly react that way if I said it in the tone I thought I did    =)   Jupp, don't envy bioware when it comes to trying to make everyone happy on the voice-silent-thing.

[shnellegaming]

I prefer Voiced protagonists. I love clicking options and finding out how the replys come out.

[Tico696]

I prefer a voiced hero too. I just think more options would be nicer.

[seraphymon]

prefer silent for this type of game. Voiced has to be done right to succeed in my eyes, but its impossible with the amount of work.

[Azul7]

I prefer voiced because I like to hear the reply and I feel like I contribute more for the character attitude.

[vallore]

I must confess, after DA2 I’m now more skeptical about voiced characters; while I still think they have the potential to make a game more involving, they also have the potential to do just the opposite:
they in fact restrict the player’s ability to role-play, by forcing a demeanor that limits the player’s choices for her character.

DA2 tried to solve this problem,(something the devs should be praised for), with the three main personality choices it had available. Unfortunately,it didn’t really work for me. Instead, the voice main character often felt flat, lacking emotion, and, as so, was at odds with the character I wanted to play. It became not a factor of immersion but rather an obstacle between me and my character.

Add to it the dominant personality system and the distance became even greater. In theory it seemed a very good idea, but it has a problem:

Players that prefer a more flexible personality approach for their characters, choosing different attitudes to different situations, (for example: being
diplomatic/helpful with friends and sarcastic/aggressive with perceived
threats), may find, to their chagrin, their character adopting the wrong
dominant personality in the wrong moment.

Now put on top of it the paraphrase system:
Often, it would mislead or was unhelpful about hinting what the character was going to say.

The result of all of this is that,for me, voiced Hawke felt, by many orders of magnitude, far less my character than the silent warden.

[Firewolf99]

A voice type option would solve a lot of the problems associated with voice acting debate, in my opnion. obviously its impractical in some aspects, but I just can't buy DA:O due to the speech options (and the complicatons of completing DA2 before DA:O)

[Dianjabla]

vallore wrote...

I must confess, after DA2 I’m now more skeptical about voiced characters; while I still think they have the potential to make a game more involving, they also have the potential to do just the opposite:
they in fact restrict the player’s ability to role-play, by forcing a demeanor that limits the player’s choices for her character.

DA2 tried to solve this problem,(something the devs should be praised for), with the three main personality choices it had available. Unfortunately,it didn’t really work for me. Instead, the voice main character often felt flat, lacking emotion, and, as so, was at odds with the character I wanted to play. It became not a factor of immersion but rather an obstacle between me and my character.

Add to it the dominant personality system and the distance became even greater. In theory it seemed a very good idea, but it has a problem:

Players that prefer a more flexible personality approach for their characters, choosing different attitudes to different situations, (for example: being
diplomatic/helpful with friends and sarcastic/aggressive with perceived
threats), may find, to their chagrin, their character adopting the wrong
dominant personality in the wrong moment.

Now put on top of it the paraphrase system:
Often, it would mislead or was unhelpful about hinting what the character was going to say.

The result of all of this is that,for me, voiced Hawke felt, by many orders of magnitude, far less my character than the silent warden.

For the most part I agree. That said, I'm not completely against VA in games - for me it worked for Shepard, I hated M Hawke, was ok with F Hawke, and there have been a few RPGs where a silent protagonist was a blessing as I couldn't stand any of the character sound sets available. I totally enjoyed DAO.

In particular 4 things made DA2 less enjoyable as far as dialogue goes:
1. the paraphrase system,
2. the dominant personality system (the example given above being my issue with it),
3. the choice of only 3 roles to play - saint, snarky or jerk
4. the way Hawke decided to on occasion to react without my input and proceed to say things I wouldn't have had them say.

How to make it better Bioware?
Ensure what's paraphrased is what's said - hopefully add the option to see what's going to be said before you select it.
Dump the dominant personality system. Sounded like a cool idea but it just leads to frustration.
Don't have my character choose to do things with out my say so, or it just becomes a movie, and I don't pay $100 to watch one no matter how long it is.
Give more options for dialogue progression. There has to be more options in conversation than saint, snide & jerk. Do I think it's easy to do? Heck no, but I've played the games you guys have made - if you can give morally ambiguous situations, surely you can provide morally ambiguous responses.

You'll note I didn't say dump the dialogue wheel. The more I think about it, the more I like it - investigation one side (I almost always choose every option I can), conversation progression the other. I'd just like more choices on the right hand side and for the option to see what those choices will actually be. Those who aren't so picky needn't utilise it and won't have to read all that text.

These things are also true of the ME series. In retrospect, with Shepard I set out to play a Paragon type character  who took no crap. Had I wanted to play less of an agressive ass who (almost) always took the high road I mightn't have enjoyed it so much. I doubt I'd have enjoyed playing it neutral.

So in summary: If I don't like the voice actor's voice, I'm not gonna like there being VA at all. Much of my misery with dialogue in DA2 though (& ME series to be fair), has been the actual choice of dialogue and the mechanics around it that reduce my sense of controling my character. So if it comes down to a choice between VA & cinematics vs a SP & more dialogue options, it's good bye VA, farewell cinematics, don't let the door hit your ass.

(Sorry John, but I'd much rather talk with my companions when I choose than have the lighting just right.)

Modifié par Dianjabla, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:56 .

[Pasquale1234]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I prefer voiced for a lot of reasons, though the biggest one is I'm capable of following the conversation that the protagonist is having with the companion even if I'm "surprised" by an option.

When I'm surprised by taking a non-voiced line in an entirely different context/tone, I can't follow the conversation for a brief moment and it takes me out far more than anything else.

Following a conversation is something an observer does, and I think, a very different experience than actively participating in one.

To me, the voiced protagonist combined with the overabundance of cinematics in DA2 (not to mention the railroaded plot) gave me the experience of watching a movie instead of actively playing a game.  Put another way, it felt like I showed up on game day, suited up, warmed up, and rode the bench until the final whistle.

[Blastback]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Other NPC's not getting the sarcasm can enhance the already profound sense of dislocation some wardens are experiencing, not all lack the desire to surrender to their imaginations and ignore the impulse to control the reactions of those around them to conform to their own inner monologue.

So why complain?  Just imagine around it.  Then we all win!  Voice PC fans hear the voice and no voice fans have their imagination.  

For me at least, the reason I complain is that if Bioware is going to continue with the voiced PC, which I think we all know that they are, they can look at the problems that silent PC fans have with PC VO, and make adjustments so that it can be made more accesible to us. 

Sides, I have a weekly whining quota to meet.  Good place to do it.

[Huntress]

The best part of voice is main character takes part in the barten..
Isabela-Beth
Isabela-carver
Isabela-Anders
and many more, I just love it!

[Feraele]

Brockololly wrote...

Atakuma wrote...
If they could do it right, that would be a pretty cool feature. Unfortunately it might just end up sounding like youre character is using autotune.

I seem to recall some interview prior to ME1 or after ME1 released where Casey Hudson( or some other ME person) made mention they tried doing something like that to customize the voice but it didn't work out.

phaonica wrote...
It makes me sad to read that interview, knowing that they've pretty much  abandoned a style that significantly contributed to my enjoyment of DAO.
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

Yup, same here.

I don't get it really- I don't think the cinematic presentation is as big a boon as they seem to think. Especially in DA, where the engine doesn't look that pretty on a technical level when you're putting it under the stress of more cinematics. Its a damn game not a movie. Design it as such.

I just think they're hurting themselves in the long run by adopting one set presentation for all their games.

lobi wrote...
Those vermin infecting the games industry  that do their initial training in cinema are not fitting their skillset  to the genre, they are changing the genre to conform to their  skillset.

I think maybe 'vermin' is a bit strong and its not that you can't take anything from cinema to apply to games, but rather I think developers are leaning on that stuff as a major crutch that is hurting gaming and any variety in games. I can recall when cutscenes and cinematics were cool little rewards in games but they're so common place now that they're mostly unremarkable. That was my problem in DA2- almost every conversation had the camera swirling around often needlessly and then when you get to big "cinematic" moments you're pretty much numb to anything they're trying to do for dramatic effect.  And all the extra cost needed for that stuff (IMO) rarely is worth the effort as opposed to if they had used those resources elsewhere to make a better game, not a movie.

Makes you wonder, I mean the reasons cited for eliminating Dog from Awakening ..was due to the cost of creating cinematic, and Dog was pretty much ALL cinematic.     So..what gives here, what's the true story?    Everyone that I read ..wanted Dog back.    Now I see Dog is back in DA 2, but of course, graphically changed.    And DA 2 ..as you say is pretty cinematic in experience.

I remember when it was a big thrill to have cinematics here and there, ...but these days it is overdone..I don't want to watch a movie (as someone said earlier)   I want to PLAY THE GAME...MY WAY.   Dragon Age Origins allowed me that freedom.  

NOw they have taken the franchise in a totally new and pretty much unexpected direction, changing absolutely everything,  to cater to the console and COD crowd.     I guess they didn't like their original fanbase at all..didn't appreciate that we bought every dlc, collectors edition and Awakening and even pre-ordered Dragon Age 2 ..to boot, because we were so hooked on the original.

I hope it is worth sacrificing the old for the new...I hope their marketting department doesn't regret what they've done in the long run. 

Voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel,  prefab character, very limited roleplay ..will not keep me here, unfortunately.   I am STILL struggling with DA 2.     

I perused the Legacy thread, and although everyone seems content with what was "changed",  this will not prompt me to buy the dlc, because..they pretty much turned their backs on DA:O and what garnered them all those awards, in favour of the new direction.      DA:O seems to be a one of a kind, never to be reproduced episode in the Dragon Age franchise,  and that I find very sad and disappointing. 

To those that say..if you prefer silent protagonists, play Bethesda games,  I already have a couple of those on my hard drive thanks,  and Bioware WAS my favorite game company.     Thanks for the push out the door guys.

[SilentK]

Huntress wrote...

The best part of voice is main character takes part in the barten..
Isabela-Beth
Isabela-carver
Isabela-Anders
and many more, I just love it!

It's one of the things that I love with having a voice    =)    just did legacy last night and FemHawke and Carver has such wonderful wonderful sibling-rivalry-bits!!        

That just made my evening and it's one of those moments when I am so so happy for having a voice.

[Sabariel]

I prefer silent protags as I'm an old dinosaur and like to give my character their own voice in my head. All three tones present in DA2 gave me the urge to headbutt Hawke in the face, especially the purple tone. No such problem with a silent protag, unless of course I imagine them with a really irritating voice/tone... :B