557 réponses à ce sujet

[SilentK]

happy_daiz wrote...

SilentK wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

It does seem to come back to the bad paraphrasing in the end. If the summary was closer to being what is actually said, it would be a small victory for everyone, I think.

I am surprised sometimes how many people like the silent protagonist. My first introduction to a BioWare game was Mass Effect 1, so by the time I played Dragon Age, a voice seemed "normal"...and DAO seemed strange to me. It kinda reminded me of Folklore (great PS3 game, btw), because in places where you would expect there to be talking, there were only words.

Anyway...

lol, I guess that I'm back being different again. I really really like paraphrasing. I just remember the lines when I see them written out too well and that makes it less fun to replay. My memory for what people actually says is much worse which makes it more fun to play this way. I don't know every single conversation in advance. I'm perhaps a little weird.
But that which works really well for me clearly works is making quite a few less happy. Think we talked earlier on this thread about the whole line being visible if you moused over that paraphrase. Don't know about you but I could see that as a option. I  might even use that myself on a few places even if I prefer the short bits. Hmmm..... difficult things    =)

I like your mouseover idea, but how would you accomplish that on a console? Personally, I'd rather have a voiced protagonist instead. 

Great question. My bad answer, haven't got the foggiest. Never played on anything else than a pc so I don't know the limitations of a console. Never thought about that.... jupp... difficult is the right word I guess    

[Medhia Nox]

I have nothing against a voiced protagonist - but what I hate, absolutely hate - is when I click on an option and what they say in the text is not what they say in the game. I do not want:

What you pick: "No, I do not want to fight you."

What you say: "If you even think you can beat me, you're a damn fool."

What? Why did my character say that?

[Texhnolyze101]

i prefer silent but voiced protags don't really bother me so im ok with it.

[G00N3R7883]

I quite like the voiced player characters. It didn't make it harder for me to imagine myself as Shepard or Hawke in my first play of ME1, ME2 or DA2, but I think it made my alternate runs in each game more entertaining (when I'm not even trying to *be* the character because they are the opposite sex).

However I do think the voice wheel needs to be improved so that the options we pick more closely resemble what our character will say.

[G00N3R7883]

SilentK wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

SilentK wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

It does seem to come back to the bad paraphrasing in the end. If the summary was closer to being what is actually said, it would be a small victory for everyone, I think.

I am surprised sometimes how many people like the silent protagonist. My first introduction to a BioWare game was Mass Effect 1, so by the time I played Dragon Age, a voice seemed "normal"...and DAO seemed strange to me. It kinda reminded me of Folklore (great PS3 game, btw), because in places where you would expect there to be talking, there were only words.

Anyway...

lol, I guess that I'm back being different again. I really really like paraphrasing. I just remember the lines when I see them written out too well and that makes it less fun to replay. My memory for what people actually says is much worse which makes it more fun to play this way. I don't know every single conversation in advance. I'm perhaps a little weird.
But that which works really well for me clearly works is making quite a few less happy. Think we talked earlier on this thread about the whole line being visible if you moused over that paraphrase. Don't know about you but I could see that as a option. I  might even use that myself on a few places even if I prefer the short bits. Hmmm..... difficult things    =)

I like your mouseover idea, but how would you accomplish that on a console? Personally, I'd rather have a voiced protagonist instead. 

Great question. My bad answer, haven't got the foggiest. Never played on anything else than a pc so I don't know the limitations of a console. Never thought about that.... jupp... difficult is the right word I guess    

Shouldn't be a huge problem on console. I play Dragon Age (and as many other games as possible tbh) on PC but I'm on the 360 for Mass Effect (bought it before it was even announced for PC, now "my" Shepard is stuck there). Its a while since I played but I'm pretty sure the analogue stick highlights your chosen option, then button A selects it. So the full line could still be displayed when highlighted.

[ApostleinTriumph]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I have nothing against a voiced protagonist - but what I hate, absolutely hate - is when I click on an option and what they say in the text is not what they say in the game. I do not want:

What you pick: "No, I do not want to fight you."

What you say: "If you even think you can beat me, you're a damn fool."

What? Why did my character say that?

This, a million times this!!!!!! I don't want this new dialogue system to continue in DA, it can go on for ME, I don't look what I want from DA in ME, so just keep them different.

[Blastback]

G00N3R7883 wrote...

SilentK wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

SilentK wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

It does seem to come back to the bad paraphrasing in the end. If the summary was closer to being what is actually said, it would be a small victory for everyone, I think.

I am surprised sometimes how many people like the silent protagonist. My first introduction to a BioWare game was Mass Effect 1, so by the time I played Dragon Age, a voice seemed "normal"...and DAO seemed strange to me. It kinda reminded me of Folklore (great PS3 game, btw), because in places where you would expect there to be talking, there were only words.

Anyway...

lol, I guess that I'm back being different again. I really really like paraphrasing. I just remember the lines when I see them written out too well and that makes it less fun to replay. My memory for what people actually says is much worse which makes it more fun to play this way. I don't know every single conversation in advance. I'm perhaps a little weird.
But that which works really well for me clearly works is making quite a few less happy. Think we talked earlier on this thread about the whole line being visible if you moused over that paraphrase. Don't know about you but I could see that as a option. I  might even use that myself on a few places even if I prefer the short bits. Hmmm..... difficult things    =)

I like your mouseover idea, but how would you accomplish that on a console? Personally, I'd rather have a voiced protagonist instead. 

Great question. My bad answer, haven't got the foggiest. Never played on anything else than a pc so I don't know the limitations of a console. Never thought about that.... jupp... difficult is the right word I guess    

Shouldn't be a huge problem on console. I play Dragon Age (and as many other games as possible tbh) on PC but I'm on the 360 for Mass Effect (bought it before it was even announced for PC, now "my" Shepard is stuck there). Its a while since I played but I'm pretty sure the analogue stick highlights your chosen option, then button A selects it. So the full line could still be displayed when highlighted.

Bingo bango
This. It would work just the same.

[errant_knight]

For me, the voiced protagonist is just too limiting. I'm shown my character instead of creating that character for myself. I can't imagine they type of voice and inflection of my characters, it's forced on me. Not only that but different characters with different appearances have the same voice, which is just weird. I want to do, not be shown.

I also dislike the concept for forcing responses into three distinct trees of response and having them paraphrased. That's limiting, too. Four choices was better than three, and I want to know what I'm going to say. It really takes me out of the moment and a feeling of being in control of my character to have them say something different than the choice I made. For me, that, and the outside view camera angles, make the PC into an NPC--just one I control more directly. I just wasn't Hawke the same way I was the Warden.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I still insist that a voice where the player lacks control over the delivery of a line badly harms roleplaying, but I think it would be easier to RP around the voice if we didn't have to work through that obfuscatory paraphrase system.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 09 août 2011 - 05:54 .

[Baiolit]

I believe that when a character has a voice he has been further defined in a manner that is out of the hands of the player. When a character has been further defined in any way, shape, or form, roleplaying of that character has become limited.

This works for NPCs. The developer has a pretty good idea of what they want that specific character to act like. Therefore voice acting compliments their personality and it is a good way of enriching one's experience with them.

For the PC, voice acting is another thing that limits the imagination of the player. For some games it isn't detrimental to the experience, like Mass Effect. I believe it to be a very risky idea, and in games like Dragon Age 2 it did not work. In Dragon Age I was lead to believe the character I controlled was my own, a projection of myself into the world. Dragon Age's roleplaying strengths were in its immersion, where as Mass Effect's were in demonstration. In a demonstrative game a voiced PC enhances the game, in an immersive game it severs the connection between the player and the fictional world.

Those are my opinions. I apologize if I stated them matter-of-factly.

[Dragoonlordz]

Imho, voiced in ME1 series, fine. Voiceless in DAO, fine. Both voiced for ME2 and DA2, not fine. Might be alien concept to some people but I prefer variety in life like jRPGs which have set routes and plot paths, I buy those then again cRPG and wRPG with customisation and branching plot routes; I also buy those. I buy them for different reasons aka variety. ME should stay voiced, DA should of stayed silent (imho). Something for everyone via different titles is a better model than all titles one size fits all because for simple fact it never will.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 09 août 2011 - 06:23 .

[rpgfan321]

Frankly I like both silent and voiced protagonist. There are always pros and cons to both sides.
BioWare's quality with voice acting is top notch in my opinion, and it is great to hear such good acting sooth my ears. On the other hand silent protagonists, I always hear my voice say the lines that make him/her sound like me.

It looks like fully voiced protagonists, and the dialogue wheel seems to be the direction this company is taking. I have no serious objections. But as others have said before, if the dialogue wheel is to give limited, three - five choices to choose from, make sure the paraphrase is clear and concise. That way no one is left flabbergasted or such throughout the game.

[IsleySilverlord]

I think Dragon Age 2 voice actors for Hawke (especially FemHawke) were pretty low.
I didn't like them, woman was too soft, I didn't feel she had any strength.

So yes, voiced could be the best choice, but not the way it is in Dragon Age 2.

[nikkylee]

I don't think I prefer one over another, except for one thing that I assume has to do with cost. Playing DA2 for the first time, something about the conversations (with companions, specifically) kept nagging at me. I know the devs keep saying that we have the same amount of interaction as Origins, and that's probably true, but it feels less like a conversation and more like someone talking at me.

I'm playing through Origins right now, and it's hit me how much I get to RESPOND to my companions. In terms of quantity, the "explore" dialog options might match the number of responses to any given question/statement, but they are always the same. "Tell me more about Danarius." is interesting the first two times you hear it, but beyond that, what's the point in investigating when it's all identical? In Origins, you have a choice as to how you pursue a topic. I don't know the actual options, but you could choose anything from, "So, you're a ROYAL bastard?" to "Wait, you're a prince?" to "NEAT! Let's storm the castle and take the throne!"

Actual personality-tone choices in DA2 is limited to what, maybe 2-3 per conversation, if that? It makes them feel shorter, less involved, less personal.

Granted, it's been a month or so since I played DA2, but with the exception of Fenris asking about going back home and what he should do now (along with a few bits after important plot happenings, a few little things), they don't seem to be real concerned with Hawke, or curious about her. Alistair asks about your home, who you've lost, Leliana comments on your hair, Wynne comments on EVERYTHING. I know it's an action game, but FEELING like friends/lovers/rivals/whatever is probably what I miss most, especailly because I love the new companions so much. Sten and my Warden respected each other, she and Leliana were friends, Wynne was a motherly guide, and it showed. You could build your character based on your responses to them, even if their responses were the same. The mad hermit responds the same in several questions no matter what you choose, but I LOVE that bit anyway. It lets me build who my Warden is.

Anyway, this is long and I'm a terrible rambler and even worse at getting what I mean down. I mean to say I like them both (I love how responsive Hawke can be when the scene is done well), but I'd rather take the silent protagonist if it means more resources can be given to the back and forth to give them more unique personality.

Modifié par nikkylee, 10 août 2011 - 05:36 .

[LPPrince]

With the implementations of voice capturing technology through things like Kinect for the Xbox 360, I'd love to have a voiceless PC again ala DAO.

One I can voice MYSELF. We can all become our own voice actors/actresses and play our characters exactly the way we want.

This sounds promising. I want to see it done. Rather than simply using a voiced PC.

[thedistortedchild]

LPPrince wrote...

With the implementations of voice capturing technology through things like Kinect for the Xbox 360, I'd love to have a voiceless PC again ala DAO.

One I can voice MYSELF. We can all become our own voice actors/actresses and play our characters exactly the way we want.

This sounds promising. I want to see it done. Rather than simply using a voiced PC.

This would be perfect!<3

[LPPrince]

Of course, implementation would have to be made for PS3 and PC, or they could just keep the game like DAO but let 360 players who have Kinect voice the character themselves.

Either way, its a win.

[LPPrince]

I'm going to quote myself here,

LPPrince wrote...

With the implementations of voice capturing technology through things like Kinect for the Xbox 360, I'd love to have a voiceless PC again ala DAO.

One I can voice MYSELF. We can all become our own voice actors/actresses and play our characters exactly the way we want.

This sounds promising. I want to see it done. Rather than simply using a voiced PC.

And now proceed to point downwards to my signature.

[happy_daiz]

LPPrince wrote...

With the implementations of voice capturing technology through things like Kinect for the Xbox 360, I'd love to have a voiceless PC again ala DAO.

One I can voice MYSELF. We can all become our own voice actors/actresses and play our characters exactly the way we want.

This sounds promising. I want to see it done. Rather than simply using a voiced PC.

No thanks. Just like anything else in my life, I'd rather pay someone to do it than do it myself. 

[Aimi]

LPPrince wrote...

With the implementations of voice capturing technology through things like Kinect for the Xbox 360, I'd love to have a voiceless PC again ala DAO.

One I can voice MYSELF. We can all become our own voice actors/actresses and play our characters exactly the way we want.

This sounds promising. I want to see it done. Rather than simply using a voiced PC.

Be pretty funny to listen to a guy try to voice his female Dalish elf rogue.

Also, since the amount of phrases the Kinect can successfully parse is, of course, severely restricted, you're effectively forced into saying things you may have no intention of saying anyway.

[Dubya75]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I still insist that a voice where the player lacks control over the delivery of a line badly harms roleplaying, but I think it would be easier to RP around the voice if we didn't have to work through that obfuscatory paraphrase system.

Do you have control over the text in the response you choose in a voiceless game? No.
Perhaps you know every word of the message that is going to be delivered, but you have no control over the words.

So I fail to work out how it has become such a problem with a voiced protagonist.
I would agree that in some cases the anotated response choice may not reflect the spoken line very accurately, but this is something that will simply have to be improved.
Going back to a silent protagonist would be a step back.

I could never go back to a silent, emotionless, expressionless protagonist. And I am happy that for Dragon Age, the voiced protagonist is here to stay!

[Gosuchobo]

Voiced plz. But make the protagonist a BAMF. Loved Sheppard, never did warm up to Hawk.

[Dragoonlordz]

daqs wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

With the implementations of voice capturing technology through things like Kinect for the Xbox 360, I'd love to have a voiceless PC again ala DAO.

One I can voice MYSELF. We can all become our own voice actors/actresses and play our characters exactly the way we want.

This sounds promising. I want to see it done. Rather than simply using a voiced PC.

Be pretty funny to listen to a guy try to voice his female Dalish elf rogue.

Also, since the amount of phrases the Kinect can successfully parse is, of course, severely restricted, you're effectively forced into saying things you may have no intention of saying anyway.

Aveline : Hawke what do you think?
Kinect Player : Insert Disc
Aveline : Sorry Hawke I don't undertsand...
Kinect Player : Play Music
Avenline : For love of god Hawke make sense!
Kinect Player : Console Off

[RosaAquafire]

I like the voiced protagonist -- just not in its current iteration.

I hate not being able to tell what your character will say. Playing an aggressive Hawke is a harrowing experience. Sometimes, you say something stern and badass. And sometimes you open your mouth and a cloud of angry bees spew forth. It's basically impossible to tell which it's going to be based on the paraphrase OR the tone.

Introducing something that lets the line become visible on hover or some such would be wonderful. I don't want it on the wheel -- that would get old. I just want the option to be able to tell what they're going to say when I'm getting that sinking feeling that my character is about to behave oocly, with no way to tell.