557 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

Morroian wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I don't mind voiced protagonists in games like Geralt or Adam Jensen in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

But my like/dislike has much to do with how established the PC is as well as the dialogue system. The BioWare brand wheel / paraphrasing / tone icons sucks. Its terrible. If they change that, maybe I'd be more favorable to a voiced PC in a BioWare game.

TW2 has a dialogue wheel with paraphrasing and some of the paraphrasing is as bad as some of the DA or ME paraphrasing, DEHR has a dialogue wheel. If they add a subtitle of the actual line and improve the paraphrase isn't that enough. 

I have to disagree about TW2, the way they did it was far better in my opinion because they used words from the actual line instead of going out of their way to make the paraphrase completely different.

[Sutekh]

Atakuma wrote...

I have to disagree about TW2, the way they did it was far better in my opinion because they used words from the actual line instead of going out of their way to make the paraphrase completely different.

You mean like "Very funny" translates into "F*** you"? 

Tbh, I see no real difference between the two paraphrasing (DA2 vs. TW2), but both didn't bother me at all. And if it's really different than what I intended, then I still can reload, but it never happened to me so far. Maybe I'm lucky.

[Dasher1010]

Voiced is good but the personalities kill it.

[element eater]

silence is golden

voiced is defo better with a set protagonist like gerralt etc but when it comes down to it id rather not have a set protagonist. In this respect i believe a mute characters pros out weigh the cons.
ultimately i want bioware to give me as much scope as possible to play my own character and having a va greatly reduces this

[erynnar]

I prefer silent (they could work on the facial emotions for your PC). But voiced means not having a different origin. It also means an interactive movie with commercial breaks known as quests, I prefer a choose your own adventure book. And quite frankly, if the voice is undesirable, or the VA is bad, or I get a voice I like--then character creation becomes useless item for me as the voice goes with one face just like a real human being. So voiced is such a waste.

[Atakuma]

Sutekh wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I have to disagree about TW2, the way they did it was far better in my opinion because they used words from the actual line instead of going out of their way to make the paraphrase completely different.

You mean like "Very funny" translates into "F*** you"? 

Tbh, I see no real difference between the two paraphrasing (DA2 vs. TW2), but both didn't bother me at all. And if it's really different than what I intended, then I still can reload, but it never happened to me so far. Maybe I'm lucky.

Ha, I forgot about that one, but I still think the approach was better overall.

[erynnar]

Atakuma wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I have to disagree about TW2, the way they did it was far better in my opinion because they used words from the actual line instead of going out of their way to make the paraphrase completely different.

You mean like "Very funny" translates into "F*** you"? 

Tbh, I see no real difference between the two paraphrasing (DA2 vs. TW2), but both didn't bother me at all. And if it's really different than what I intended, then I still can reload, but it never happened to me so far. Maybe I'm lucky.

Ha, I forgot about that one, but I still think the approach was better overall.

Me too. I didn't find Geralt's responses as much of a surprise, and mostly unpleasant, as Hawke's. I did like the "Very Funny" becoming "F- you," though it was a surprise. ROFL!

[phaonica]

I find that I am usually more immersed in a game with a silent protagonist. It makes me feel like "I" am the character in the game, as opposed to feeling that I am directing someone else's adventure. Games with predefined characters and stories are okay. They're like reading a book or watching a movie. But the more separated I as a player am from the controlled character, the less immersed I am. There is nothing I can think of that separates me from the character like a voiced protagonist.

[In Exile]

Drasanil wrote...
An odd argument. DAO made it quite well actually, the origins provided a context in which your Warden saw the world post-Ostagar and served to inform your choices, in addition to some of the unique content.  

No. DA:O forced you into two attitudes: I <3 Ferelden and I <3 Wardens. You had no unique content (sometimes you get dialogue lines) but otherwise you're treated like Mage Hawke in Kirkwall, which is to say that apparently no one cares you're x, y or z. 

Otherwise, your background isn't allowed to influence your attitude except for a set number of ways, and you get locked into the same attitudes you get locked into in DA2. You can't hate your family. You can want a better life for yourself, but you can do the same in DA2. Otherwise, there's no content beside the content you invent for yourself, and you can do that in DA2 too. 

My HN hated Duncan for leaving her family to die; she never wanted to identify with the Grey Wardens but wanted to save Ferelden for the sake of her parents. DA:O never gave you a chance to RP this.

My Dalish rogue was forced into the Joining because of the tainted Eluvian, but never cared for Ferelden. He was forced to fight against the blight instead of flee.

My Amell never cared for Ferelden (he hated it instead, because of the support it gave to the Chantry) and would have left to meet the Grey Wardens in Orlais. So would my pragmatic HN. They were both forced into I <3 Ferelden.

Not only was race entirely superflous (since there was no unique content for any race) but you could make the same argument for DA2.

Conversely Hawke starts off with no tangible reference points or past that allows you to shape your character, she has a blank personality you fill in but with little to no actual context provided to inform your choices. Hawke is pretty much the definition of all flash and no substance.

You had no context at all in DA:O. You got to interact with some family members for a few minutes and got your race card via introductory dialogue from Duncan. DA2 gives you just as much material as DA:O, which is to say it gives you absolutely nothing. 

Modifié par In Exile, 25 juillet 2011 - 03:25 .

[Drasanil]

In Exile wrote...

Not only was race entirely superflous (since there was no unique content for any race) but you could make the same argument for DA2.

This is simply not factually accurate. Marrying Alistair/Anora is unique to the HNs, there's a whole bunch of unique dialogue dealing with your family in the Denerim Alienage if you're a CE, the male DNs get a quest about their bastard son.  The dalish react different not only if you're an elf but also a dalish one. etc etc... Care to make up other statements of fact?

You had no context at all in DA:O. You got to interact with some family members for a few minutes and got your race card via introductory dialogue from Duncan. DA2 gives you just as much material as DA:O, which is to say it gives you absolutely nothing. 

Uhm, sweet sweet hyperbole. Might I suggest you replay those origins a few times so you can actually know what you're talking about? Most last ~1 hour or so, and were actually designed with the express purpose of informing your character. That you choose to dismiss that doesn't make it any less true.

[Feraele]

alex90c wrote...

Voiced protagonist can be completely game-breaking if you don't like the voice (e.g. me w/DA2). So I prefer silent.

Same prefer silent...immersion breaking having your character speak and say things that are totally alien to what you would choose.

I think if anything,  if there was a TOGGLE, so you could shut it down...I'd be happy with that.   That way those that can't imagine things in their head and need that voice happening..can have what they want.  And so can we..the rest of the crowd.

And..Bioware would have the best of both worlds, because in that respect they WOULD be pleasing a larger audience.    Imagine that.

Or perhaps our modding community can beat Bioware to the punch on that one.   How about it guys?

Modifié par Feraele, 25 juillet 2011 - 03:56 .

[Jsixgun]

Voiced.

[Frek]

Depends on the game:

In action games I prefer voiced. For example, Mass Effect. I can't imagine playing ME with a silent PC.

In RPG's I prefer silent. Voiced = you are locked into a very specific character with less choices. I find it much more interesting when you read the lines and use your imagination to put whatever tone you want on them.

That said, I can live with a voiced PC but given a choice I'll pick silent every time.

[Iakus]

 Both have strengths and weaknesses.

Voiced adds a greater degree of realism to the game that silent just can't beat.  But voiced is also very limiting.  You're "rolling the dice" on whether you'll like the VA or not, dialogue options and tone are limited to the wheel.  Then there's the "paraphrase problem"

Silent, otoh, you can sort of do the paraphrase in your head.  You can also have more than three responses at a time.  You do have the problem of the protagonist being a mime, however, which can be immersion-breaking.

Overall, I guess if you're playing a predefined, set character, like "Hawke"  or "Shepard" voiced works.  But if you're playing a character you create yourself, such as Revan, the Warden or the Bhaalspawn, silent would be better.

[In Exile]

Drasanil wrote...
This is simply not factually accurate. 

This is factually accurate. You consider unique content to be new conversations. I consider unique content to be different quests, outcomes, and branching paths.

Marrying Alistair/Anora is unique to the HNs, 

What changes in-game? Nothing. You don't get new quests. You don't have different characters appear. You don't command different armies. You don't fight a final battle in a different place.

If you're talking about unique content, then unique content is what TW2 did. 

there's a whole bunch of unique dialogue dealing with your family in the Denerim Alienage if you're a CE, the male DNs get a quest about their bastard son.  The dalish react different not only if you're an elf but also a dalish one. etc etc... Care to make up other statements of fact?

Unique content is not unique dialogue. It would be like saying DA2 had 'unique' content because the friendship and rivalry values gave you different conversations and you get quests from someone else 1 time in Act III based on your standing with 1 of 2 factions. 

Uhm, sweet sweet hyperbole. Might I suggest you replay those origins a few times so you can actually know what you're talking about? Most last ~1 hour or so, and were actually designed with the express purpose of informing your character. That you choose to dismiss that doesn't make it any less true.

I didn't dismiss it. The origin was circa 1hr, but you didn't have 1 hr of conversation. You get a small vignette that's a snippet of the life of the PC before Ostagar, most of which is combat, and then you have identical content.

I pointed out that DA2 gave you as much content on your family (the escape from Lothering, how you got into Kirkwall, the old family home quest, conversations with Gamlen, All That Remains, Gamlen's Greatest Treasure, etc.).

It might be useful for you to take your rose-tinted glasses off, because content that you experience in your head isn't content in the game. 

Modifié par In Exile, 25 juillet 2011 - 04:31 .

[Harid]

Prefer silent. Wish devs would do a mixture of it so we can have our character speak when neccessary; rousing speech, family member death, but don't have to deal with at least for myself, skipping dialogue because people read too slowly or I hate my characters voice.

If I had it my way, we'd be able to change between about 10 voices. Each would fit a tone like in DA:O.

We'd still choose our responses like in DA:O, so i can roleplay my character as I want.

Our main character would speak to give a rousing pre battle speech based on the voice I chose in the beginning.

So we would have times where we can still give a good speech, but we don't have to deal with out character saying things we did not mean, or speaking too slowly or not fitting your character due to tone or diction.

It would be like a part spoken, mostly silent character.
I'd also do something so our character doesn't look like a deaf mute most of the time, it's not hard to show emotion without having the character literally speak. A lot of people blame the motionless Warden on silent characters, but it is moreso due to Bioware not scripting it's conversations properly and largely using the same canned animations since KOTOR.

[ErichHartmann]

I like both. Really depends on the type of RPG I'm playing. Mass Effect and The Witcher would be awkward without a voice actor for Shepard and Geralt. In RPGs with greater customization and freedom (such as Morrowind) then no it's not necessary and would not really work.

[Sutekh]

Feraele wrote...
That way those that can't imagine things in their head and need that voice happening...

Please don't. <_<

[In Exile]

Harid wrote...
I'd also do something so our character doesn't look like a deaf mute most of the time, it's not hard to show emotion without having the character literally speak. A lot of people blame the motionless Warden on silent characters, but it is moreso due to Bioware not scripting it's conversations properly and largely using the same canned animations since KOTOR.

You'd just have people complain about the emotions and feelings being expressed by the dialogue. 

A PC saying "Great idea!" would have a different expression for "Great idea! <_<" and "Great idea!:happy:" and that's basically just tone by another measure. 

[Harid]

In Exile wrote...

Harid wrote...
I'd also do something so our character doesn't look like a deaf mute most of the time, it's not hard to show emotion without having the character literally speak. A lot of people blame the motionless Warden on silent characters, but it is moreso due to Bioware not scripting it's conversations properly and largely using the same canned animations since KOTOR.

You'd just have people complain about the emotions and feelings being expressed by the dialogue. 

A PC saying "Great idea!" would have a different expression for "Great idea! <_<" and "Great idea!:happy:" and that's basically just tone by another measure. 

You could have different reactions for prescripted tones.

They generally prescript tones anyway.

Modifié par Harid, 25 juillet 2011 - 04:59 .

[In Exile]

Harid wrote...
You could have different reactions for prescripted tones.

They generally prescript tones anyway.

If they had actual flavour to the dialogue, along with intent to make it clear what was going on and with expression (i.e. every possible aspect of voice aside from the actual audio) I would be fine with that. 

I would find it patently inferior in presentation and I would think the game is much worse for it, but it wouldn't be an outright major negative as silent VO is (i.e. I wouldn't have to like the game despite the feature). 

Modifié par In Exile, 25 juillet 2011 - 05:05 .

[Feraele]

Sutekh wrote...

Feraele wrote...
That way those that can't imagine things in their head and need that voice happening...

Please don't. <_<

Please don't what?  Isn't that why they need a voiced protagonist for roleplay?   Can't imagine why otherwise?

[phaonica]

No system is going to please everyone. People can scarcely have face-to-face conversations with each other without misunderstandings in tone even with the aid of voice and body language, let alone trying to relay tone over text and emotes.

[Feraele]

Harid wrote...

Prefer silent. Wish devs would do a mixture of it so we can have our character speak when neccessary; rousing speech, family member death, but don't have to deal with at least for myself, skipping dialogue because people read too slowly or I hate my characters voice.

If I had it my way, we'd be able to change between about 10 voices. Each would fit a tone like in DA:O.

We'd still choose our responses like in DA:O, so i can roleplay my character as I want.

Our main character would speak to give a rousing pre battle speech based on the voice I chose in the beginning.

So we would have times where we can still give a good speech, but we don't have to deal with out character saying things we did not mean, or speaking too slowly or not fitting your character due to tone or diction.

It would be like a part spoken, mostly silent character.
I'd also do something so our character doesn't look like a deaf mute most of the time, it's not hard to show emotion without having the character literally speak. A lot of people blame the motionless Warden on silent characters, but it is moreso due to Bioware not scripting it's conversations properly and largely using the same canned animations since KOTOR.

I think thats what they are trying to avoid, hiring too many voice actors as that eats up the budget.   The way it was in DA:O when you created your character and chose a "tone" or personality voice, which only stated brief reactions from time to time, was ..for my brand of roleplaying, just enough voice without going overboard.

    The part I am thinking that would cause difficulty ..would be attaching expressions/emotions to the protagonist's face, that would be appropriate and fit what was happening at that particular time.    It might be why we had "deadpan" or emotionless characters for the most part in the first game.    About the only time that changes is say a scene like RTO where you are standing in front of the funeral pyre ..and it is during a cut-scene, there our characters expressed sadness with their facial expressions. 

Nevertheless, that was not something that affected my roleplay to any extent, as I was more focussed on "acting" or "imagining" than I was on realistic depictions of facial expressions.