123 réponses à ce sujet

[Augoeides]

F00lishG wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Eh, if it comes down to Legion and Tali, I would pick Legion. Mainly because I think the Quarians deserve it was more then the geth. Damn space gypsies.

XD space gypsy helped save the universe.

Some Quarians helped save it, for a while, still most of the Quarians appear to sport some fantastic racism towards Geth and refuse to acknowledge their faults within the Quarian-Geth conflict. Somehow, SOMEHOW, they follow a train of thought that looks something like:

Make Geth, rudimentary A.I. -> A.I. develops into a type of sentience -> Our slaves are too smart, that's bad, they might not want to be our slaves soon -> DESTROY THEM -> Geth murdered and exiled us! (1) -> Machines that have risen up from souless slavery to intelligence and kill us when we try to destroy them, ARE ALL EVIL! (2)

Ammendments to Quarian Logic:
(1) They are now intelligent beings, you expect an intelligent being to just sit there while you wipe them out? Would you sit there Quarian A? They defend themselves from you and you lost, that's war you jilted children.
(2) Read above ammendment, if you do not compute please remove your body suit and roll in some Omega sludge. You'd be doing intelligent species a favor.

Quarians views on Geth are more depressing than trying to have a theological debate with Leliana.. ugh.

Anyway, I think the Tali/Legion conflict may be one laced with turning on Shep or at least losing one of the forces.

Samara is another one who might makes an appearance to confront Shepard for any number of things.

Miranda would totally go about thing her own way if Shep started making REALLY REALLY stupid decision in relation to strategy.

Vega, i think, will be rather impressionable during the conflict and shaping his interstellar views one way but going another may earn his ire (ie. express anti-alien sentiment but then go out of your way to help an alien race or choose a group of aliens over humans or vice versa) but will always place more value on humans so regardless of "shaping" him (much like inlfuencing Garrus to be more Paragon or Renegade) there are some issues where he might turn on you or at least voice and show his disagreement.

[bleetman]

I wonder how humanity would respond to our computers and automated machinery asking us if they had a soul. I'm willing to bet "fear", followed by "we have to destroy them".

The Quarians are hostile towards the Geth because they were slaughtered by the millions by them. I wouldn't consider that an unfathomable position. It's a lot easier to see how silly grudges are from the outside.

Modifié par bleetman, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:35 .

[Augoeides]

bleetman wrote...

I wonder how humanity would respond to our computers and automated machinery asking us if they had a soul. I'm willing to bet "fear", followed by "we have to destroy them".

Oh for sure! BUT in this scenario we are the third party, not as the player but as Shepard, and as a race that wasn't a part of that conflict. If we didn't make high and mighty judgments, pretending we have some moral high ground and condemn a group for doing something we can only say we wouldn't do because we never faced it ourselves, we wouldn't be human. xD

My gripe is ultimately not with the initial reaction but the enduring racism inherent in the Quarians outright refusing to admit or see where they should receive blame in that whole chain of events. Admittedly, I'm marking an entire race with a perspective based on very limited interaction with a small number of them, but you do get the feeling that that perspective is the social norm.

[bleetman]

Augoeides wrote...

If we didn't make high and mighty judgments, pretending we have some moral high ground and condemn a group for doing something we can only say we wouldn't do because we never faced it ourselves, we wouldn't be human. xD

Hah, quite

[Sshodan]

The interesting thing is that from what I red Geth actually did not object to the manual labor for Quarians - for all we know operating a "mobile platform" in certain way is something they can do with minimum effort, and would have gladly helped out their organic creators in exchange for holding an intelligent conversations form time to time.
Geth and Quarians don't compete for the resources either - Geth are as happy living in a data banks on orbit as on the surface of the planet, happier perhaps since it's the environment that is easier to control.
So the only issue is Quarians overreacting when they discovered that Geth actually can thing - Geth did not become aggressive, did not disagree with their current tasks or positions, and quite possibly would have happily co existed with Quarians if not of quarians attempting to shut them down.
I certainly hope that this is one conflict that we'll be able to resolve without bloodshed on both sides, but if we can't I would not be surprised if Talli turns on us

[KyreneZA]

The sad thing is that all geth still have this almost worshipful revenance of their vengeful creators. Tali is a cute little nth generation racist and I hope her time with Legion will improve that. The quarian hubris is what led to their current situation.

[Vilio1]

Renegade Garrus might become the next Saren.

[Sshodan]

Vilio1 wrote...

Renegade Garrus might become the next Saren.

I'd say renegade Shep is first in that like Garrus is very mild in comparison

[dahoughtonuk]

Wrex/Mordin I think we could have the irony of Wrex understanding the need. Mordin wanting to undo it, and Wrex getting insulted

Tali/Legion hard either way but if played earlier game could either be easier or harder depending on your decisions . That is assuming Legion's telling the truth of course.

Samara/Morinth - Ardat-Yakshi/Justicar look to be likely point of contention. Discovered the true  History of the Ardat-Yakshi Justicar?

Miranda- Will turn on you, either because she's loyal  to Cerberus or her sister is threatened.

Garrus - Harkin/Sidonis?

Modifié par dahoughtonuk, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:26 .

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Eh, if it comes down to Legion and Tali, I would pick Legion. Mainly because I think the Quarians deserve it was more then the geth. Damn space gypsies.

I don't get what all the Legion support is about. How can you support a synthetic race that's tried to kill you more times than you can count? I'd much rather support the Quarians.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:45 .

[KyreneZA]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Eh, if it comes down to Legion and Tali, I would pick Legion. Mainly because I think the Quarians deserve it was more then the geth. Damn space gypsies.

I don't get what all the Legion support is about. How can you support a synthetic race that's tried to kill you more times than you can count? I'd much rather support the Quarians.

How can you support an organic race that has tried to kill you more times than you can count? Sorry, stop supporting Garrus then. Your view is one of racism.

I'd much rather remain Switzerland, but if the quarrians are racist enough to continue down that path of supremacy (mixed with a healthy dose of denial) I will plant the first bomb in the flotilla. Preferably on the Moreh or Neema.

[Mr. Monorail]

I imagine there could be some kind of confrontation if you don't manage to get the Quarians and Geth to live in peace and you'll have to choose sides, making the side you didn't choose see you as an enemy.

Also, due to their history the Krogan might refuse to join you if you have the aid of the Rachni, or if it comes to the worse they may see you as a threat.

[TexasToast712]

InviolateNK wrote... Batarians, I would sacrifice any or all of them even if it was totally unnecessary, their a race of mean thugs.

I like this.

[Augoeides]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Eh, if it comes down to Legion and Tali, I would pick Legion. Mainly because I think the Quarians deserve it was more then the geth. Damn space gypsies.

I don't get what all the Legion support is about. How can you support a synthetic race that's tried to kill you more times than you can count? I'd much rather support the Quarians.

That's like saying because Australian stried to blow up an Asari moon that all humans should be hated. The Heretic Geth have been the ones going all homicidal on us assuming Legion speaks the truth. Quarians, had they been the ones elected by the Reapers to be their slaves wouldn't hold up to your logic any better. 

Modifié par Augoeides, 25 juillet 2011 - 02:01 .

[StonedVolus]

Ashley. She's already dead for me, so I'll just spend billions on a second Lazarus project to bring her back to life. Then nuke her again.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

Kyrene wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

Eh, if it comes down to Legion and Tali, I would pick Legion. Mainly because I think the Quarians deserve it was more then the geth. Damn space gypsies.

I don't get what all the Legion support is about. How can you support a synthetic race that's tried to kill you more times than you can count? I'd much rather support the Quarians.

How can you support an organic race that has tried to kill you more times than you can count? Sorry, stop supporting Garrus then. Your view is one of racism.

I'd much rather remain Switzerland, but if the quarrians are racist enough to continue down that path of supremacy (mixed with a healthy dose of denial) I will plant the first bomb in the flotilla. Preferably on the Moreh or Neema.

I actually don't like Garrus much either.  The Geth aren't living things, they're machines who clearly want to destroy organic life or gain power. I simply find it impossible to support them. I find them to be interesting, being a sort of powerful non-organic force, but if it came down to supporting an organic race who lost millions to machine workers or the machines who killed them, I'd support the Quarians.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 25 juillet 2011 - 02:06 .

[KyreneZA]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

I actually don't like Garrus much either.

Touche!

The Geth aren't living things, they're machines who clearly want to destroy organic life or gain power.

Humans aren't living things either. They're merely biological constructs with biological super computers steering them (often wrong) and want to destroy all life on earth and gain power. Can machines/geth lie? If so then Legion was lying about the heretics, but if he isn't, it was only them that want to destroy.

I simply find it impossible to support them. I find them to be interesting, being a sort of powerful non-organic force, but if it came down to supporting an organic race who lost millions to machine workers or the machines who killed them, I'd support the Quarians.

Sentient machine workers. Human slaves working in batarian mines are also little more than machine workers. Would you support the batarians if they decided to kill all slaves who revolt?

Your argument/s is flawed in that you cannot acknowledge what sentience means. I think, therefore I am. What am I?

[Augoeides]

Ah yes, "sentience" we have dismissed the claim that any synthetic being could replicate the brain function of intelligent organic beings therefore reducing morals and emotion to mere electrical impulses and social conditioning.

When it comes to sentience, that which divides organic and synthetic is a thin line of attachment to a basic understanding of what constitutes life, awareness and possibly notions of souls and higher beings. Highly dependent on faith and that aforementioned social conditioning.

[idoless24]

I would say Miranda would be the traitor. TIM gave her a place to go when her father was after her and thats pretty important to her.

If it's down to Legion vs. Tali then I would have to side with Legion. The Quarians basically tried to commit genocide and the Geth responded in self defense. Plus, The geth could be more valuable if you could protect them against the heretic virus.

Samara's staying on my Shep's side due to her immovable paragon state.

Hmm no one else I can really think of..maybe Jacob but I couldn't care less about shooting an insanely underdeveloped character.

[MrCairo]

Doesn't matter to me, anyone stupid enough to betray my Shep... well..they'll never find the body.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

VS, it makes the most sense.

[King Minos]

Liara, just imagine her becoming mentally unstable which is obvious as she kills quite easily now. Similier to Azula from avatar, a cracked up liara giggling to herself and cornering you in your room, her eyes glint with madness and crackles of warp coming from her hands which by the way are aimed at you. Yet you swear you see tears in her eyes...

[DrunkenGoon]

Of course it all comes down to what choices you have made or are going to make in ME3. Miranda would never betray my character since she is romanced and already quit cerberus.

Most likely in my game it would be Tali/Legion. I would choose Legion because I have always seen Tali as a kind of naive racist. I think the geth have more personality than some people realize, Why would Legion choose to wear Shepherds armor? Legion really had no answer for it. The geth that tried to kill you are all dead or rewritten based on what you chose. Plus the Geth are FAR more powerful than the Quarans could ever be in a war against the Reapers.

[Nashiktal]

This is going to make me mad. Reapers come down to kill us all and someone wants to betray the guy who saves the galaxy?

Ah well. I can already guess some of the situations...

Tali/legion for a flotilla vs geth choice.

Wrex (or wreave) might have one depending on rachni or princess situation.

I'm sure the VS and the James will have some conflicts involving any human colony. (or James might have trouble accepting any hard decision in general)

I don't think it's likely, but garrus might hVe one somewhere with palaven.

Well it's good thing I suppose to have more vs moments, not going to make it any easier.

[Kabanya101]

Roxy12 wrote...

Legion - Tali (depending on you choices)
Mordin - Grunt/Wrex (depending on you choices)
Ashley (alliance fanatic, she thinks all aliens are bears or bug-eyed monsters)

Those are good decisions, but you forgot Ashley/Jack - Miranda

Miranda might want to cure Cerberus, but Ashley/Jack will want to kill them all.

I hate having squadmates leave, but that usually doesn't happen because I'm a Paragon. That aspect of DA I hated, but it did make the game more real, and it made me think about my decisions more. So if squadmates don't leave because I don't give them a Snickers, then I'm cool.