309 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirfan]

Itkovian wrote...

There's no denying that the metacritic score for DA2 was artificially deflated. The simple act of making a 0 or 1 review is itself intellectually dishonest, when looking at the actual game's quality. It'd have to be something unplayable to get that low.


Itkovian

And I would say it is nearly un-playable, so.. perhaps a 2? Sounds about right.
Seriously, I rated it 4 in metacritic - it is about the review it deserves as a stand-alone game. Perhpas 4.5, if I'm in a good mood.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Lets not forget that the 4chan thing was precipitated by the "selling your soul to the EA Devil" ban.  So if we are talking Chicken and the Egg here, there was plenty of anger about the Game before 4Chan ever got involved.  I also think the 4chan involvement was blown out of proportion by certain developers to cover up the large number of angry fans who genuinely hated the game.

As far as this whole argument about DAO Fans calling DA2 fans morons... It's not that DA2 fans are morons.  It's that many fans of Origins felt that DA2 was designed for morons...

When you talk about streamlining and making the game more accessible, you are basically saying that you made the game EASIER.  Combat that didnt require any preparation... or effort, tanking the inventory system, Boiling down the skill system.  Any Tom Dick or Harry could pick up DA2 and not have too much trouble playing the entire game without dying... once.  You probably dont even have to change your inventory items out if you didnt feel like it.

is this a bad thing? well that depends on you.  A lot of fans count on RPG's to be more than "accesible"  They play RPG's because they generally require some thought, and planning.... and EFFORT.

Call of Duty is a skill game.  Hand eye coordination, reflexes, and teamwork are all required to do well.  Morons can play it, but skill is a factor in the game.  Mass Effect moved towards this type of skill game when it took on more "Shooter" type aspects.  Does Mass Effect really require skill? maybe, maybe not.  The difference between ME2 and DA2 was that ME was never really a RPG anyway so no one was really outraged. 

The problem with the direction that DA2 took is that DA2 doesnt require any skill either.  Making the player smash the A button doesnt make it a skill game.  It's the same thing as auto attack... except You Are the Auto.

so If it doesnt require thought, planning, preparation, or skill.... what does it require?  not much.  You are not Morons for liking DA2....  but Morons would not have a problem playing this game... and that was apparently the intention.  Fans of ORIGINS were looking for more than that,

Again, before everyone jumps down my throat, I AM NOT SAYING THAT DA2 FANS ARE MORONS. 

do they have bad taste in games?.... maybe

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Itkovian wrote...
Essentially, that groups of people with an agenda will do what they can to voice their displeasure as loudly as possible, by giving impossibly low reviews in order to make the devs hear their voices, with their desire to be heard trumping any desire to make a fair and balanced review.

Itkovian

So did a group of minority people who voiced their displeasure as loudly as possible about DA O when it was released and turned DA 2 for what it is now.  The only difference is they were too weak to influence the score as a lot more people love DA O. They should be held responsible for all the negatives DA 2 received as well.

So this time, let's make sure DA series get back where it should be without causing so much polarization that DA O haters had caused already.  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:16 .

[Dreadstruck]

nedpepper wrote...
No.  The biggest problem with New Vegas is the origin.  You are just some mail courier who gets shot in the head.  The joy of Fallout is that you are a character locked in vault.  You are seeing the world with fresh eyes, just as the character is, and you role play from there.  But the courier knew this world.  Knew all the factions.  It feels fabricated.  And when asking questions about the factions, my first thought was, "Doesn't this guy LIVE here?  Why would he not know anything? Amnesia from a gunshot? Bleh."

I don't dislike the game.  I played it and enjoyed it.  The music is great, and there's some great voice acting.  The companions were more fleshed out and there were choices to make in the game. My issue is that I never felt connected to my character.  Want to talk about a game where you just run errands? That's all you do.  Fallout 3 had a more cohesive plot and some great DLC in The Pitt.   Searching for Dad kept you focused.  There's no focus in New Vegas.

And the weapon bench was just confusing. 

No offense, but F3 wishes to be a Fallout game like NV. The "Daddy" plot is a poor rehash of the first two games with some cheap McGuffins like the GECK added in. Not to mention the atrocious writing and dialogue. Whoever was in charge of that department should be locked in a room with Chris Avellone so he can finally learn how to write a plot. Without plotholes of a size of a truck.

The thing I like about NV(and where it blows F3 out of the water) is the superior role-playing experience and most importantly, choices. I greatly dislike having a set background or being forced down one path(Being a helper of those boy scouts named Brotherhood of Steel).

Oh, and so sick of Bethesda making Enclave into the Bowser of the Fallout series.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:19 .

[Yrkoon]

aftohsix wrote...
Touting the meta-critic user reviews is just as bad as touting professional critic reviews.  

I don't agree with this at all.

A few things.

First off, the disparity in volume between the professional critics and the users cannot be ignored,  For every professional critic who rates a game, there will be  hundreds of users who do, so right there you're getting a larger representitive sampling  in the case of the latter.

Second,  the notion that 4chan or whatever had any notable effect on the DA2's  metacritic user score, beyond perhaps    a single point  or so   (at best) in the overall total is mathamatically absurd.  And also happens to be a classic example of willful denial of reality. And we all know it.   *THOUSANDS* of people have rated the game on  metacritic.  And as formidable  and monstrous as  you may think 4chan is,  even their biggest,  best organized  'crusades'  do not have the power to significantly affect a metacritic score on such a big-name  AAA title like a bioware game sequel.  So perhaps we can lay the silly conspiracy theory to rest now  and try to come up with another reason why DA2 didn't get such a great user rating...?  Maybe  (and here's a crazy thought)  Maybe DA2 wasn't all that well received by  users... and that's the reason why   it got such a low user score?  Maybe?

Lastly  (and most importantly)  You're free to  ignore metacritic user scores, obviously.  You're even free to dismiss Metacritic user scores away as "unreliable" or "uncredible".  But don't fool yourself.  There isn't a single Gaming company on planet Earth that will ever  do  *either*.  Companies like Bioware take those scores dead seriously.   Ask yourself why.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:44 .

[aftohsix]

Yrkoon wrote...

I don't agree with this at all.

A few things.

First off, the disparity in volume between the professional critics and the users cannot be ignored,  For every professional critic who rates a game, there will be  hundreds of users who do, so right there you're getting a larger representitive sampling  in the case of the latter.

Second,  the notion that 4chan or whoever had any notable effect on the DA2  metacritic user score, beyond perhaps    a single point or so  (at best) is mathamatically absurd.  And also happens to be the dumbest example of willful denial of reality  in the entire gaming world. And we all know it.   *THOUSANDS* of people have rated the game.  And as formidable  and monstrous as  you may think 4chan is,  even their biggest,  best organized  'crusades'  do not have the power to significantly affect a metacritic score on such a big AAA title like a bioware game sequel.  So perhaps we can lay the silly conspiracy theory to rest now  and try to come up with another reason why DA2 didn't get such a great user rating...?  Maybe  (and here's a crazy thought)  Maybe DA2 wasn't all that well received?  Maybe?

Lastly  (and most importantly)  You're free to  ignore metacritic user scores, obviously.  You're even free to dismiss Metacritic user scores away as "unreliable" or "uncredible".  But don't fool yourself.  There isn't a single Gaming company on planet either that will ever  do  either.  Companies like Bioware take those scores dead seriously.  One need only read some Developer interviews littering the internet  to see how painfully Obvious  that is.

I don't agree with this either.  The immense number of 0.0 and 10.0 user review scores immediately throws off any accurate portrayal of how good or bad the game is.  If Metacritic were able to "clean up" those scores and throw out all of the outliers we'd get a good picture.

That's ignoring the fact that MOST consumers won't waste the time to log on to metacritic and write a review.

The only thing we can learn from the DA2 user reviews is that some people didn't like it.

And enough about 4chan.  They don't deserve to be discussed.

Modifié par aftohsix, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:32 .

[Yrkoon]

Nope.    And this isn't a matter of opinion.  it's Mathamatics. When  we're dealing with upwards of  6000 votes, on 3  gaming platforms, a few dozen "0" scores is not enough to affect the overall  rating beyond a point or two.  period.  especially when they're balanced out by a few dozen  10s.

And the individual reviews for all three platforms are there for anyone to sift through and read anyway.   So  no one really has to take my word for it.   I  do, however, take issue with the fact that some people here are simply dismissing those 0's away as invalid.   Not all of them are. There are  tons of LONG and painstakenly detailed  reviews   where a user meticulously explains why he/she gave the game a 0.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:44 .

[aftohsix]

Yrkoon wrote...


Nope.    And this isn't a matter of opinion.  it's Mathamatics. When  we're dealing with upwards of  6000 votes, on 3  gaming platforms, a few dozen "0" scores is not enough to affect the overall  rating beyond a point or two.  period.  especially when they're balanced out by a few dozen  10s.

And the individual reviews for all three platforms are there for anyone to sift through and read anyway.   So  no one really has to take my word for it.   I  do, however, take issue with the fact that some people here are simply dismissing those 0's away as invalid.   Not all of them are. There are  tons of LONG and painstakenly detailed  reviews   where a user meticulously explains why he/she gave the game a 0.

What percentage of people who bought DA2 took the time to review it on Metacritic do you think?  So what you're saying is that Mathmatically a percentage of overall owners of DA2 didn't like the game.

Too many people here are stuck in the fallacy that "since I'm passionate enough to review it on meta-critic and post on the official forums ALL GAMERS must be that way."  We're part of a very small group.  The meta-critic user reviews are reflective of that small subset of people.  Joe-six pack isn't going to review the game on metacritic and probably doesn't know what it is.

Anyways it's clear you feel there is no room for discussion here so I'm done.

Modifié par aftohsix, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:53 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

2 publications rated DA 2, 10/100 and 5 others rated it 20/100. That's lowest score I have ever see for an AAA title.

http://www.metacriti...r=games&page=12

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 26 juillet 2011 - 01:56 .

[Firewolf99]

Look, Is this a discussion of how good a game is or an arguement about how and when to quote reviews? seriously, nobody can stick to the MO in these forums...

And in my opnion, DA2 was exceptional. I will freely admit to being a console player and freely admit to disliking the incredible depths some RPGs go to in the name of customisability and character optimisation (Look, I don't need a ring for every finger with multi-variable stats and power of Kitten Bashing + 23.56). Though I remain disapointed that Bioware cannt include an Afro haircut in either Mass Effect or Dragon Age, I felt the combat system (Clutter free) and the storyline (Original, instead of "Lets save the world again" guff) were excellent. But, as has been repeated oft before me, You should really try the game out and see.

I would say, however, that Demo's for RPG's are tricky customers, as you don't really get a feel for the story through it (surely the most important part) But thats just me.

[Yrkoon]

aftohsix wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...


Nope.    And this isn't a matter of opinion.  it's Mathamatics. When  we're dealing with upwards of  6000 votes, on 3  gaming platforms, a few dozen "0" scores is not enough to affect the overall  rating beyond a point or two.  period.  especially when they're balanced out by a few dozen  10s.

And the individual reviews for all three platforms are there for anyone to sift through and read anyway.   So  no one really has to take my word for it.   I  do, however, take issue with the fact that some people here are simply dismissing those 0's away as invalid.   Not all of them are. There are  tons of LONG and painstakenly detailed  reviews   where a user meticulously explains why he/she gave the game a 0.

What percentage of people who bought DA2 took the time to review it on Metacritic do you think?  So what you're saying is that Mathmatically a percentage of overall owners of DA2 didn't like the game.

Really?     Do we actually  have to explain the concept of representative  sampling to you guys?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:04 .

[aftohsix]

Yrkoon wrote...

Really?     Do we actually  have to explain the concept of representative sampling to you guys?

I like DA2 I'm too stupid.

Representative sampling isn't the same as an angry nerd writing a review on the internet though....

Modifié par aftohsix, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:01 .

[Yrkoon]

aftohsix wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Really?     Do we actually  have to explain the concept of representative sampling to you guys?

I like DA2 I'm too stupid.

 Staw man.  Many people gave DA2 high scores on metacritic.  No one here is calling them stupid.

aftohsix wrote...

Representative sampling isn't the same as an angry nerd writing a review on the internet though....

But hey, feel free to call us nerds, though

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:04 .

[aftohsix]

I speak as a card carrying nerd. I'm arguing about whether or not a video game is good on a internet forum after all.

[Nohonor]

My greatest dissappointment about Dragon Age 2 is the dungeon variety.  There are reused dungeons that really hurt the game in that they are mostly unoriginal and boring after a while.

Some other lesser complaints such as a smaller exploration areas.  One of the great things about previous BioWARE games is the humongeous areas in the world to explore.  Dragon Age 2 is not nearly as big as other BioWARE games in terms of exploration.

Another complaint is giving more than a reskin.  Dragon Age 2 takes most of what was successful from DA:O and gives it a shiny polish, what they don't do is take progressive steps in other directions.

Other than those things, I like DA2.  It does a great job with the story and combat, advancing you and your companions stats and specs is also more rewarding than in DA:O.  The game's length of time played is also healthy and it has good replayability.

[jamesp81]

AleshCZ wrote...

I actually find it quite well done and very entertaining. There are flaws, yes, but nothing that would make me go "OMFG, this game is s***".

This here.  I am having fun with DA2, and I even expect to do multiple playthroughs, something I don't expect to do with DAO.

[Ardcaor]

I have had great fun with DA2. Many of the things that bother other folks bother me as well, but I still can enjoy the game for what it is.

My opinion only, but I think if they had called it Dragon Age: Kirkwall maybe the reception would have been different. DA:2 (to me) is a good game, but is more of a cousin to DA:O than a descendant.

[erynnar]

Last Darkness wrote...

Alicia Keys wrote...

Well I bought the signature edition the day it came out but haven't gotten to play it yet cuz I save my most favorite or intereting games last with Dragon Age 2 being the last one. I have Darksiders to complete which I'm playing now and then I have Cursed Mountain, The Calling, Tales of the Abyss, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World, Alice Madness Returns, Alan Wake, and Dead Space 2. So it won't be for a while before I play Dragon Age 2. I was hoping this game would be better than the original! I love bioware games with KOTOR being my favorite even though it's really old. I liked Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1 but was dissappointed in them a lil cuz I thought the story and character interaction would be more epic. But I did like them. I still haven't played Mass Effect 2 cuz that's on the last of the list even though I didn't mention it before because i'm not going to play it until Mass Effect 3 comes out then I will play the whole trilogy. Anyways Dragon Age 2 ain't that bad is it? Ign gave it a 8.5 out of 10. What makes you fans dislike this game so much? Are the characters better in part 2 or is Origins better in that area? Also I will get the Legacy DLC too when it comes out in 2 days and all future DLC. Also will there be an expansion pack for Dragon Age 2 like there was for Origins? Also what would you rate all 3 dragon age games from best to worst (Dragon Age Origins, Dragon Age Awakenings, and Dragon Age 2)

Sorry for the long post and thanks and god bless

I liked it and enjoyed it.  I do agree the spawn waves, and reused maps(The Cave) could have used some more polish though. Except for those two items I enjoyed everything else.

Keep in mind most of the people who say DA2 is bad are the same people who give 0-1 Star on a Review site for a game for having any minor flaw. Like I know a game that someone gave 0 stars to in a review because the graphics were not computer breaking level of detail. (If your curious this was League of Legends, which is a rather popular and enjoyed game by many)

Again, the broad brush is inacurrate. "Most people" who think the game is bad do no such thing. There are those who are nitpicky and give zeros. Many of the people who I have seen say it is bad have given it higher scores than that.

[Addai]

Last Darkness wrote...
Keep in mind most of the people who say DA2 is bad are the same people who give 0-1 Star on a Review site for a game for having any minor flaw. Like I know a game that someone gave 0 stars to in a review because the graphics were not computer breaking level of detail. (If your curious this was League of Legends, which is a rather popular and enjoyed game by many)

I gave it a 7 on Metacritic when reviewing not long after first beating it.  If I could go back, I'd downgrade it probably to a 4 or 5.  Some of the disappointment came on as I started thinking about the story and replaying.

Most of the people who say most of the people who dislike DA2 are 4chan trolls are full of crap most of the time.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

erynnar wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

Alicia Keys wrote...

Well I bought the signature edition the day it came out but haven't gotten to play it yet cuz I save my most favorite or intereting games last with Dragon Age 2 being the last one. I have Darksiders to complete which I'm playing now and then I have Cursed Mountain, The Calling, Tales of the Abyss, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World, Alice Madness Returns, Alan Wake, and Dead Space 2. So it won't be for a while before I play Dragon Age 2. I was hoping this game would be better than the original! I love bioware games with KOTOR being my favorite even though it's really old. I liked Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1 but was dissappointed in them a lil cuz I thought the story and character interaction would be more epic. But I did like them. I still haven't played Mass Effect 2 cuz that's on the last of the list even though I didn't mention it before because i'm not going to play it until Mass Effect 3 comes out then I will play the whole trilogy. Anyways Dragon Age 2 ain't that bad is it? Ign gave it a 8.5 out of 10. What makes you fans dislike this game so much? Are the characters better in part 2 or is Origins better in that area? Also I will get the Legacy DLC too when it comes out in 2 days and all future DLC. Also will there be an expansion pack for Dragon Age 2 like there was for Origins? Also what would you rate all 3 dragon age games from best to worst (Dragon Age Origins, Dragon Age Awakenings, and Dragon Age 2)

Sorry for the long post and thanks and god bless

I liked it and enjoyed it.  I do agree the spawn waves, and reused maps(The Cave) could have used some more polish though. Except for those two items I enjoyed everything else.

Keep in mind most of the people who say DA2 is bad are the same people who give 0-1 Star on a Review site for a game for having any minor flaw. Like I know a game that someone gave 0 stars to in a review because the graphics were not computer breaking level of detail. (If your curious this was League of Legends, which is a rather popular and enjoyed game by many)

Again, the broad brush is inacurrate. "Most people" who think the game is bad do no such thing. There are those who are nitpicky and give zeros. Many of the people who I have seen say it is bad have given it higher scores than that.

Indeed. I rated DA2 7 on metacritic just like I did in my post on page 3. 

[packattack28]

I was skeptical at first judging from all the negative reviews about DAO2.  I just finished the game and loved it. Was it as epic as the orignal? No, but overall enjoyment was still a 10, I was completely immersed in the storyline and how the many stories intertwined along with some special appearances. I actually liked how they simplified armor optons, enchantment etc...   The ending for the original was truly epic and I still haven't played a game with such a climactic ending but overall this game was definitely no disappointment.  My thanks to Bioware for creating such a fantastic game.......    I can't wait for #3!!    Do not hesitate to pick up this game

[IronSabbath88]

I'm in the minority here obviously.

I liked Dragon Age 2. I thought it was fun for what it was. As good as Origins? No. But good, nonetheless. I enjoyed it, and that's all that matters to me.

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

aftohsix wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...


Nope.    And this isn't a matter of opinion.  it's Mathamatics. When  we're dealing with upwards of  6000 votes, on 3  gaming platforms, a few dozen "0" scores is not enough to affect the overall  rating beyond a point or two.  period.  especially when they're balanced out by a few dozen  10s.

And the individual reviews for all three platforms are there for anyone to sift through and read anyway.   So  no one really has to take my word for it.   I  do, however, take issue with the fact that some people here are simply dismissing those 0's away as invalid.   Not all of them are. There are  tons of LONG and painstakenly detailed  reviews   where a user meticulously explains why he/she gave the game a 0.

What percentage of people who bought DA2 took the time to review it on Metacritic do you think?  So what you're saying is that Mathmatically a percentage of overall owners of DA2 didn't like the game.

Really?     Do we actually  have to explain the concept of representative  sampling to you guys?

It's funny you should bring up representative sampling. I also realize that many folks will probably just TLDR this, but I found it interesting, and some others might too.

There was a very interesting talk at the GDC this year by the guy in charge of EA's Freemium division, mostly about Battlefield Heroes (a free to play shooter that announced the 7 million player mark as of May of this year). In December of 2009, they broke what many consider the cardinal rule of microtransactions - they started selling weapons that were more powerful than those freely available. The differences were around 10%... a submachine gun with bigger magazine size (45 vs 40), a shotgun with slightly higher crit rate (4% instead of 2.5%), and a knife that did 30 damage instead of 28. Overall, around 10% power boost.

The blowback was huge, large enough to get picked up by the bigger gaming media, and large enough to generate hugely angry threads on the forum with hundreds of pages of posts. People threatened to quit, they posted pictures of pornography, the amount of vitriol was staggering, and everyone thought that they had failed, and that the game was doomed.

The actual result, however, was that the number of paying customers roughly tripled, while their new player signups were unaffected overall, and their churn (number of players leaving) was also unaffected. They actually did some research on their forum statistics (since only people with registered accounts could log in and post and such), and the results were pretty interesting.

78% of their users never touched the forums ever.
20% of the users visited to read at least once, but never actually posted.
2% of the users actually posted to the forum.

According to their data, the average forum poster spent 10 times the amount of money the average user did (total amount of money spent by all forum posters / number of total forum posters) compared to their overall average user. The majority of the posters who claimed they'd quit did nothing of the kind - they eventually went ahead and bought the very items they protested.

Now... you might argue that these data are exceptions and not the norm, or that Dragon Age 2 is the exception and not the norm, but I think that passionate fans on forums are pretty much the same everywhere. Forums represent around a low single-digit percentage of users who care, and they are in no way representative of anything but the most passionate userbase of the game.

Source. He talks about the press reaction at around 27 minutes in. Forum statistics and data are approximately 32 minutes into the lecture.

[ReallyRue]

I didn't think it was bad. Different to Origins, but not bad.

[aftohsix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Now... you might argue that these data are exceptions and not the norm, or that Dragon Age 2 is the exception and not the norm, but I think that passionate fans on forums are pretty much the same everywhere. Forums represent around a low single-digit percentage of users who care, and they are in no way representative of anything but the most passionate userbase of the game.

Thank you.  This is exactly what I was getting at.  I was pointing out that the kinds of people who take the time to write a user review on Metacritc are arguably the most passionate of a fanbase.  Due to this fact the reviews are largely irrelevant to anyone but other passionate fans (and in my case, still are.)

Example:  Take a poll of my friends on what their favorite sport is?  95% would say swimming.  Take a poll on all the people in the USA.  Most would probably say football.

The user average of 4.whatever is irrelevant because it doesn't accurately represent all users of DA2.  

Modifié par aftohsix, 26 juillet 2011 - 05:15 .