71 réponses à ce sujet

[Elvis_Mazur]

Two things I can think of:

1- They didn't know how they could stop the Reapers.

2- They are lost in their own little bubbles.

[AVPen]

alperez wrote...

Tali was working on a mission that she never fully explained and while it seems to be completely related to the quarians, we may find out otherwise in me3.

I'd be downright shocked if the information on Haestrom's dying sun and the nature of Dark Energy had no expansion/impact in ME3, given just much information and foreshadowing was given on these things during Tali's trial in ME2. 

Modifié par AVPen, 25 juillet 2011 - 11:39 .

[Faerlyte]

Wait, where do I go to get a personal one on one interview with Garrus and Tali where they tell me that they don't care about the Reapers? Because I'd love to get in on that.

Ashley/Kaidan don't count because they're part of the Alliance and they're following someone's orders - they might not give a flying crap about the Reapers for all anyone knows, it's just part of the job. However, they're also privy to confidential information - more so than Garrus or Tali would likely have regarding Reapers. I seriously doubt either of them have access to the kind of intel for any kind of assault against the Reapers, especially when 99% of the galaxy still believes it's a big hoax. If everyone had information on the Reapers there wouldn't be any doubt of their existence.

Your comrades said it themselves that everything fell apart without Shepard and it makes sense considering Shepard is the glue that unites everyone. So everyone goes their separate ways without anything more to go on except that there are more Reapers out there that they have no way of knowing how or when they will come. Not very useful for igniting a full scale war against the big baddies.

EDIT* Holy typos batman...

Modifié par Faerlyte, 26 juillet 2011 - 12:18 .

[AVPen]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Jacob is a good guy who's convinced himself that willingly working for a terrorist is the right thing to do. Charn is a scumbag, who hasn't realised he's workign with an even bigger scumbag. Shepard (depending on your actions) either believes fully in the ideals of the Council, and tries desperately to change its opinions, or just ignores their orders and pursues his chosen course of action.

My point for listing those individuals (which you've seem to ignore entirely...) is that just because those individuals served or worked for those others people I mentioned, they don't neccessarily believe in the same ideals/beliefs of their employers - the same may or may not be true for the VS and Anderson/Udina, we don't know yet.

Made Nightwing wrote...

Anderson, however, is an idealistic and honourable man, who believes that the Reapers are coming, and is searching for the evidence to prove it. So, he decides to recruit the only other person that has seen/served with people who've seen all the evidence to prove that Reapers exist. So, if Ashley/Kaidan is working as the trusted, personal agent of this man...why would he even keep them around if they no longer believed in the Reapers? Like you've hastened to remind me before, there are other soldiers out there just as capable as the VS. Anderson could have a full platoon of N7s doing the investigating for him. The only reason for him keeping the VS as his personal errand boy/girl, is that they believe in the Reapers, and are willing to search for the truth.

There are many, many reasons why the Alliance and Anderson/Udina would want to keep the VS around that have nothing to do with searching for or combating the Reapers - considering the fact that the Council and majority of the Alliance (save for maybe one or two individuals) don't even believe in the Reapers existence, the concept that the VS is one of the few, sole individuals and the only one from Shepard's former team who's searching for the means to defeat the Reapers is quite honestly absurd, given from what we have been able to see of him/her in ME2 and how much value they place in the Alliance's beliefs over Shepard's beliefs.

Made Nightwing wrote...
Re The dialogue: None of that stuff remotely indicates that the VS no longer believes in the Reapers. You're trying to provide evidence from a thirty second conversation.

And from the posts I've seen you make on the VS, you try to create evidence out of pure speculation and fan opinion that do not exist in any factual form in the ME games.

Modifié par AVPen, 26 juillet 2011 - 12:19 .

[Ianamus]

Tali's research on Haestrom seemed very important to me. If the Quarians research into dark energy plays no role in ME3 I will be very surprised. The Quarians are also one of the few races who seem to officially acknowledge the Reapers- and she probably helped with that.

I agree that going to Omega to fight crime really dosent help at all. But unlike Tali Garrus has no political ties or relatives in high places. If he did try to do something he would be seen as a raving lunatic, and I doubt C-Sec would appreciate him going against the council by spouting stuff about the Reapers.

The only reason Shepard can do so much is because in ME1 he was a high-ranking Alliance officer with his own ship and crew, and In ME2 he is backed by a very powerful terrorist group, again, with his own ship and crew. Garrus and Tali couldn't really do anything, even if they wanted to.

Modifié par EJ107, 26 juillet 2011 - 12:29 .

[Mr_DeMille]

And Shepard was sent to fight geth. Geth! We all know they're not real threat.

[ThanesSniper]

They didn't do anything because everyone in the series is incapable of doing anything productive about the Reapers unless Shepard is involved. How much progress was lost while Shepard was dead? Just about all of it I'd say.

[FoxShadowblade]

Yeah it was assumed the Reapers were pretty much stuck out in space, Shepard saved the day and Tali and Garrus went on with their lives.

If anything Tali and Garrus are those who care most about the Reapers. TWICE they have given everything to help Shepard, and if not romantic interests, at very least could be considered sister and brother to Shepard because of what they've been through. Ashley/Kaidan should be considered traitors to Shepard, and if I have the option, they sure as hell aren't going to help me in ME3 after Horizon. Anyone who won't give everything to stop the Reapers doesn't deserve to try.

Wrex was never really interested in anything but his people, so I can't really fault him that. And Liari is just..well a sliver too crazy for me to really pay attention to her.

[FoxShadowblade]

Mr_DeMille wrote...

And Shepard was sent to fight geth. Geth! We all know they're not real threat.

We are all Geth.

[AdmiralCheez]

What do you do when the galaxy is about to be destroyed by evil god-machines and everyone who knows about it is either dead, in denial, or basically powerless to do anything? What do you do when the unbelievable is about to happen and you can't save or convince anyone you care about to do something? What do you do when there is no hope because even if everyone wised up and got their sh*t in gear, they'd still be crushed by the unstoppable forces of hell lingering on the horizon?

You distract yourself with a more immediate, defeatable threat, try to get yourself killed in the flashiest way possible, and take out a few bad guys (crime bosses, geth, the Shadow Broker, whatever) on the way to make everyone else more comfortable.

Feeling helpless, frustrated, and disillusioned can lead to some very stupid--and very suicidal--behavior.

[CroGamer002]

Garrus was probably sidelined from C-Sec do to association with Shepard and Reapers acknowledgment( my conspiracy theory is that Alliance is covering up Sovereign for themselves) so he got nothing to do.
If anything, he was training an elite squad and also helping people on Omega.


Tali said she would leave, do to her pilgrimage.
If anything, she could have been great contact for Quarian fleet if in need to ships.
Wait, that's kinda gonna happen.

[jeweledleah]

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Yeah it was assumed the Reapers were pretty much stuck out in space, Shepard saved the day and Tali and Garrus went on with their lives.

If anything Tali and Garrus are those who care most about the Reapers. TWICE they have given everything to help Shepard, and if not romantic interests, at very least could be considered sister and brother to Shepard because of what they've been through. Ashley/Kaidan should be considered traitors to Shepard, and if I have the option, they sure as hell aren't going to help me in ME3 after Horizon. Anyone who won't give everything to stop the Reapers doesn't deserve to try.

Wrex was never really interested in anything but his people, so I can't really fault him that. And Liari is just..well a sliver too crazy for me to really pay attention to her.

what have they given up exactly??

ME1.  Garrus is disilusioned with C-sec, on a verge of quitting anyways and here comes Shepard a long.  a spectre Garrus can tag along with and maybe  see how spectres work after all.  here's Tali out on her piligrimage when she gets in over her head and here comes Shepard - someone who saves her life and can potentialy help her comlete her pilligrimage  (and in case of the shepards who share Geth data - does)

ME2.  Garrus, paining himself into a corner with his vigilante act.  he has 3 different merc companies after him and is about to be killed when shepard comes along and saves his life.  Garrus lost his team, he washed out of both C-sec and Spectres, he has nowhere else to go.  Tali, fed up with admiralty board seding her along on barely researched missions, losing her team, twice, about to be killed by Geth that second time when shepard comes along and gets rid of the colossus.  fed up, she goes with Shepard, becasue its not like she's in good standing with admiralty board anyways.  she pretty much gives them a finger and that permission you get?  Flotila trying to save face.

yeah, they both have given up soooooo much to be with Shepard.  If anything - they jumped on an opportunity to be with shepard becasue they were getting absolutely nowhere on their own.  they have gained plenty and lost nothing. (and before anything is said about Tali's trial - she was accused for something she did when shepard was still presumed dead, so her leaving with Shepard had nothing to do with her situation with a flotila, instead - it gained her a new captain and someone who actualy had an ability to aquit her without her having to go for heroic self sacrifice.)

Tali and Garrus care about doing some good.  they care about Shepard.  but reapers?  they have done NOTHING about them. less then nothing.  and as for VS? we know that Anderson and Hackett do in fact still beleive that Reapers may still be a threat.  we know that VS is working for them, under highly classified conditions.  they don't rip into Shepard for beleiveing in reaper threat, they rip into shepard for presumably faking death and then showing up working for terrorists. untill we see exactly what it is that they have been doing, claiming that they did nothing about reapers is trying to justify being all butthurt about them calling Shepard out on Horizon.

[Made Nightwing]

AVPen wrote...

My point for listing those individuals (which you've seem to ignore entirely...) is that just because those individuals served or worked for those others people I mentioned, they don't neccessarily believe in the same ideals/beliefs of their employers - the same may or may not be true for the VS and Anderson/Udina, we don't know yet.

Made Nightwing wrote...

Anderson, however, is an idealistic and honourable man, who believes that the Reapers are coming, and is searching for the evidence to prove it. So, he decides to recruit the only other person that has seen/served with people who've seen all the evidence to prove that Reapers exist. So, if Ashley/Kaidan is working as the trusted, personal agent of this man...why would he even keep them around if they no longer believed in the Reapers? Like you've hastened to remind me before, there are other soldiers out there just as capable as the VS. Anderson could have a full platoon of N7s doing the investigating for him. The only reason for him keeping the VS as his personal errand boy/girl, is that they believe in the Reapers, and are willing to search for the truth.

There are many, many reasons why the Alliance and Anderson/Udina would want to keep the VS around that have nothing to do with searching for or combating the Reapers - considering the fact that the Council and majority of the Alliance (save for maybe one or two individuals) don't even believe in the Reapers existence, the concept that the VS is one of the few, sole individuals and the only one from Shepard's former team who's searching for the means to defeat the Reapers is quite honestly absurd, given from what we have been able to see of him/her in ME2 and how much value they place in the Alliance's beliefs over Shepard's beliefs.

Made Nightwing wrote...
Re The dialogue: None of that stuff remotely indicates that the VS no longer believes in the Reapers. You're trying to provide evidence from a thirty second conversation.

And from the posts I've seen you make on the VS, you try to create evidence out of pure speculation and fan opinion that do not exist in any factual form in the ME games.

My point was that they have a REASON for not agreeing with their employers ie, their employers are kinda immoral bastards. Ash/Kaidan were with Shepard. They SAW what was going on. So far, we have not been provided with ANY evidence that they no longer believe in the Reaper threat. You are cooking up your own evidence based on 'pure speculation and fan opinion that does not exist in any factual form in the ME games.'

If you have reasons that Anderson would keep a disbelieving VS around, instead of getting someone else more badass to do the job, then please, list them. I am eager to partake of your all knowing wisdom

[MysticSpace]

StellarMagic wrote...

The entire Dark Energy subplot (Dholen, Haestrom's sun being destabilized because of this) will probably be how the Reapers are destroyed or something... an Achillies Heel of some sort.

  If the star collapse it could create supernova or maybe a blackhole.  Does anyone know abut stars?

[MysticSpace]

trobbins777 wrote...

 Before you guys start flaming me, hear me out(also I hope you like the Kanye West reference in the title). Let me start off by saying that Garrus and Tali have helped us tremendously during mass effect 2 by being squadmates and helping upgrade the ship. However, I would argue that during the two years Shepard was dead they did absolutely nothing to help prepare for the reapers.

Garrus turned down an opportunity to get ahead in c-sec and goes to Omega to help fight crime, and while that's a noble cause, the reapers are going to destroy everything. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to take over C-Sec and use some influence to help prepare council forces against the reapers (even if they don't believe it to be a real threat)? I know Garrus hates red tape but when the fate of the galaxy is at stake I didn't
think he would try to be batman in Omega instead of trying to do everything in his power to prepare.

Even if he did stay on C-Sec two years time isn't enough to make Executor or any rank important enough to make the council listen.  If Garrus had stayed with C-sec and tried to warn people about the reapers for two years we'd have to rescue him from a mental hospital in either Palaven or somewhere on the Citadel...Not that I wouldn't do it though.

[Skullheart]

MysticSpace wrote...

trobbins777 wrote...

 Before you guys start flaming me, hear me out(also I hope you like the Kanye West reference in the title). Let me start off by saying that Garrus and Tali have helped us tremendously during mass effect 2 by being squadmates and helping upgrade the ship. However, I would argue that during the two years Shepard was dead they did absolutely nothing to help prepare for the reapers.

Garrus turned down an opportunity to get ahead in c-sec and goes to Omega to help fight crime, and while that's a noble cause, the reapers are going to destroy everything. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to take over C-Sec and use some influence to help prepare council forces against the reapers (even if they don't believe it to be a real threat)? I know Garrus hates red tape but when the fate of the galaxy is at stake I didn't
think he would try to be batman in Omega instead of trying to do everything in his power to prepare.

Even if he did stay on C-Sec two years time isn't enough to make Executor or any rank important enough to make the council listen.  If Garrus had stayed with C-sec and tried to warn people about the reapers for two years we'd have to rescue him from a mental hospital in either Palaven or somewhere on the Citadel...Not that I wouldn't do it though.

Garrus would have ended like the batarian prophet in Omega.

[Weltea]

For Tali the war with the Geth IS a much more pressing issue, the geth threat is present in every moment in the fleet (not to mention that she's pretty much in the mental state of a teenage girl and was asked by her father to help her with this + what should she have done? Her voice carried no weight, her father was to focused on the Geth threat and the rest of the quarian admirals probably also assumed Sovereign was geth technology/didn't believe Shepard;were to focused on the Geth/surving)

And what should Garrus have done? Handed out flyers "the Reapers are coming" to everyone on the Citadel? He had even less possibility to influence anything/anyone than Tali did because he has no connections to anyone higher up on the chain. And if the Council ignores Shepards warning (who is also backed by at least one Admiral and possible the human representative, why would they suddenly start to listen to the guy who resigned,ran of with Shepard,and then wanted his old job back (or in the Spectre scenario: turned down the offer of becoming a spectre,was a C-Sec officer,got bored and ran off and then decided he wanted to be a Spectre after all...))

[outmane]

Weltea wrote...

And what should Garrus have done? Handed out flyers "the Reapers are coming" to everyone on the Citadel? He had even less possibility to influence anything/anyone than Tali did because he has no connections to anyone higher up on the chain. And if the Council ignores Shepards warning (who is also backed by at least one Admiral and possible the human representative, why would they suddenly start to listen to the guy who resigned,ran of with Shepard,and then wanted his old job back (or in the Spectre scenario: turned down the offer of becoming a spectre,was a C-Sec officer,got bored and ran off and then decided he wanted to be a Spectre after all...))

Thats pretty much it.

Its not the lack of desire as much as the lack of means that characterize Garrus position on the Reaper threat. Its hard to say <he didnt care> when you see how C-sec/Citadel handling of things after Shepard's death pushed Garrus so much over the edge that he went to try to make a diffrence somewhere he could do things his way. So objectively he did not do much against the Reapers when he was on his own. But thats pretty much his whole character arc. Garrus is a badass idealist.

[ubermensch007]

@Trobbins777:

You know i have to say that i agree with the name of this thread and what you wrote in your original post.Though for a different reason...

What occured to me recently is this question concerning Garrus Vakarian: I couldn't help but ask myself this question.What if during Commander Shepard's Recruitment of Archangel - Commander Shepard arrived before Garrus team was taken out.If Shepard asked Mr.Vakarian to help him take down the Collectors.Would Garrus had left his team on Omega?

I have to say, I don't think he would have.he only joins up with Shepard because things get to dangerous for him to remain on Omega...

As for Tali' Zorah vas Normandy.She only joins up with Shepard because she loves Shepard and wants to be close to him once more.The Reapers are the farthest thing from her mind.That's one of the things that get's me about Mass Effect 2.So few of your teammates have any real enthusiam about the Suicide Mission.Half the squad or more are only helping you in exchange for your help with thier own problems.There's how Jack and Grunt respond when you first ask them what do they think about the mission.Than they do come aroud later on.After the Collector Ship mission.

Even Dr.Mordin Solus enthusiam grows overtime.Operative Miranda Lawson is very excited about what we're doing.You see this when you have a second talk with her on the Normandy SR 2.Where she says that this is one of the best or most exciting cerberus operations that she has ever been a part of.Operative jacob taylor complains about it all, quite a bit.At times, he has me wondering why he signed on for this mission at all. But in fact he tells us early on.This mission is a chance for him to work with the Living Legend: Commander Shepard

The only people in 2185 who were doing anything about the Reaper threat is Cerberus and The Racchni Queen.Yes Admiral/Coumncilor Anderson and the Virmire Survivor were doing what they could from inside the Council and Systems Alliance end of things.But unfortuantely they failed to accomplish much of anything, in the years after Shepard's death

[CrazyCatDude]

ubermensch007 wrote...

What occured to me recently is this question concerning Garrus Vakarian: I couldn't help but ask myself this question.What if during Commander Shepard's Recruitment of Archangel - Commander Shepard arrived before Garrus team was taken out.If Shepard asked Mr.Vakarian to help him take down the Collectors.Would Garrus had left his team on Omega?

I have to say, I don't think he would have.he only joins up with Shepard because things get to dangerous for him to remain on Omega...

Actually, I think if you'd shown up on Omega say, a week earlier, you would have left with Modrin, Garrus, and ten other BAMF's and one traitor named Sidonis.  I think Garrus would have packed up his squad and gone with you.

[outmane]

ubermensch007 wrote...


What occured to me recently is this question concerning Garrus Vakarian: I couldn't help but ask myself this question.What if during Commander Shepard's Recruitment of Archangel - Commander Shepard arrived before Garrus team was taken out.If Shepard asked Mr.Vakarian to help him take down the Collectors.Would Garrus had left his team on Omega?

I have to say, I don't think he would have.he only joins up with Shepard because things get to dangerous for him to remain on Omega...

That totally depends on the personal relationship between your personal Shepard and Garrus... did you paragon or renegade him, does he consider your Shep lika a mentor, a bro? etc.

Remember that Garrus is idealist. What he really wants is to make a diffrence. He might not have fallowed a human-centrist Shepard to Cerberus but he might have bring his Omega team with him to help a Spectre Shepard save the universe once again...