310 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Let me ask you a question, what has the Alliance to gain by pointlessly sending it's fleet to their doom?

They're already there.

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Let me ask you a question, what has the Alliance to gain by pointlessly sending it's fleet to their doom?

They're already there.

Sure, it's a 

[MDT1]

Fixers0 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Fixers0:
It is correct that it is neither possible nor viable as a strategy to evacuate billions of humans from out under the Reapers' noses. I expect a significant population loss before the war is ended. All I'm saying is that if Earth is lost, whether by ultimate necessity or by callous abandonment by people like Zulu, then humanity will be destroyed as a power.

For me that's an accaptable loss, considereing that most of the Alliance backing and resources  comes from corporations and colonies outside of the solar system, i'm willing to take the risk.

Where did you get your information? All codex entries I found about that subject suggest otherwise.

Unlike you I'm not a ZULUfanboy so I have no unlimited faith in his prophecies. I need sources so please quote yours.

Let me ask you a question, what has the Alliance to gain by pointlessly sending it's fleet to their doom?

Let me ask you back: (And I'll be also so frendly to asnwer those questions direktly)

Could the Alliance know it was pointless? 
-No. they did neither know how many reapers will come nor if they are all as tough as their vanguard. They called their fleet to Earth before the Reapers arrived.

Do you know what abandoning Earth would have caused?
-An extreme morality loss combined with mass rebellion. Nearly everybody will have family there. People don't act rational in such circumstances.

In human history, did everybody who fought for a lost cause abandon it?
-No, many continued even if it lead to their destruction.

Modifié par MDT1, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:14 .

[rolson00]

Wizz wrote...

Humans are special, you will be surprised how fast they will recover even 99% of them will be wiped out.

no we wouldn't there would be no diversity

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Sure, it's a 
*snip*

Eh, how?

Just because you (or the f*cknugget Zulu for that matter) don't like it doesn't make it a plothole.

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Sure, it's a 
*snip*

Eh, how?

Just because you (or the f*cknugget Zulu for that matter) don't like it doesn't make it a plothole.

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

[MDT1]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Sure, it's a 
*snip*

Eh, how?

Just because you (or the f*cknugget Zulu for that matter) don't like it doesn't make it a plothole.

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

Again, why should a sane admiral believe its pointless? Because one commander says so? The reapers could overstate their power when Sehapard gets his visions. Also its just normal for humans that they can't believe something is pointless until proven wrong.
Also this will probably be the decisison of the Prime minister not his admirals. Could see any of our  national leaders abandoning their countries for the chance of regroup?

Modifié par MDT1, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:25 .

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

Massing their fleet near a important place is hardly provoking a battle. It's merely a security precaution.

Lame excuse for whining about plotholes is weak.

[Fixers0]

MDT1 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Sure, it's a 
*snip*

Eh, how?

Just because you (or the f*cknugget Zulu for that matter) don't like it doesn't make it a plothole.

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

Again, why should a sane admiral believe its pointless? Because one commander says so? The reapers could overstate their power when Sehapard gets his visions.
Also this will probably be the decisison of the Prime minister not his admirals.

Hackett knows about the Reapers, an i'm pretty he isn't going to let his fleet of ships being crushed by the reapers.

Also in unrelated news, i support a military coup within the Alliance.

[dahoughtonuk]

Okay so your not expecting a possible Batarian attack on the homeworld, and the council claiming purely human matter yet again.

You are also confusing unwinnable battle with pointless one. If enough of the right people are not evacutedf or humanity, Fixer, , from then on all battles are pointless.

British Empire and genetic bottleneck, are the two most important things. What you're saying is that we should let the reapers win Fixer. fine but be honest about what you're saying.

Evacuating all of Earth is impossible, Evacuating enough genetic stock is correct.

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

Massing their fleet near a important place is hardly provoking a battle. It's merely a security precaution.

Lame excuse for whining about plotholes is weak.

Massing you fleet near a point were it will obliterated is pointless, though.

[Fixers0]

dahoughtonuk wrote...

Okay so your not expecting a possible Batarian attack on the homeworld, and the council claiming purely human matter yet again.

You are also confusing unwinnable battle with pointless one. If enough of the right people are not evacutedf or humanity, Fixer, , from then on all battles are pointless.

British Empire and genetic bottleneck, are the two most important things. What you're saying is that we should let the reapers win Fixer. fine but be honest about what you're saying.

Evacuating all of Earth is impossible, Evacuating enough genetic stock is correct.

Or you could just hold your fleet back, and wait until you got a Deus Wx Machina to kill the reapers, so that you can asume control over the galaxy. 

[MDT1]

Fixers0 wrote...

Hackett knows about the Reapers, an i'm pretty he isn't going to let his fleet of ships being crushed by the reapers.

Also in unrelated news, i support a military coup within the Alliance.

He knows they existe and that thei are quite powerful nothing more.

And as I hinted earlier that military coup would be more likely if the Allience decided to leave Earth on its own.

[WoolyJoe]

Is it not that most of Earth's funding and resources comes from large corporations and colonies outside the solar system, and that it's through this that the Systems Alliance is funded? So, not everything goes straight to the Alliance, but first goes to Earth and its various governing bodies, and is then distributed amongst the Alliance and colonization and so on

Yeah? Nooo.....? No? Okay then, just wonderin'...

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Massing you fleet near a point were it will obliterated is pointless, though.

And the Alliance knows it will be horribly outmatched...how?

[Fixers0]

MDT1 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Hackett knows about the Reapers, an i'm pretty he isn't going to let his fleet of ships being crushed by the reapers.

Also in unrelated news, i support a military coup within the Alliance.

He knows they existe and that thei are quite powerful nothing more.

And as I hinted earlier that military coup would be more likely if the Allience decided to leave Earth on its own.

Well that's perfect right, Hackett leaves earth to die, gets Super-laser from TIM by melting thousands of puppies in the Collector base and can then assume command of the Alliance.

[Candidate 88766]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

Massing their fleet near a important place is hardly provoking a battle. It's merely a security precaution.

Lame excuse for whining about plotholes is weak.

Exactly. The Alliance wasn't stationing their ships over Earth to fight the Reapers, just as a precaution. They hear reports that Earth may be attacked or that there is a fleet apporaching and so they do their duty - they set up a defensive line over Earth. Any Citadel force knows that to attack a garden world like Earth is a severe crime, so by setting their ships in front of Earth the Alliance would believe they have the upper hand - they have a large fleet and the opposition risks hitting a garden world. They won't know until the invasion actually happens that they are fighting Reapers, and by that time it is too late to do much. Its not a case of the Alliance setting up to fight the Reapers, its them setting up to defend Earth from an unknown force which turns out to be Reapers.

The Alliance has no knowlegde of what they are about to face. The few that do know about Reapers will want to keep it as quiet as possible to prevent widespread panic, and also possibly to prevent knowledge coming out that they already knew a lot about them. The Alliance doesn't have time to change their plan before the Reapers arrive - they have enough time to try and save as many as they can before regrouping elsewhere. 

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:31 .

[MDT1]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

Massing their fleet near a important place is hardly provoking a battle. It's merely a security precaution.

Lame excuse for whining about plotholes is weak.

Massing you fleet near a point were it will obliterated is pointless, though.

In WWII germanys attack on russia was that successfull at the beginning because russia massed his army near the boarder where it was obliterated. And russia had more information about the germans than the SA about the reapers.

Your whole argumentation is: "Its a plothole because in theory there would be a better solution."

Modifié par MDT1, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:31 .

[Fixers0]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Massing you fleet near a point were it will obliterated is pointless, though.

And the Alliance knows it will be horribly outmatched...how?

Hackett, maybe 

[dahoughtonuk]

How do the Admiral's know they''ll get a Deus ex Machina? They don't! You're relying on a miracle which means your plan has bigger holes than the ones you claim are in the introduction.

We have pointed out the most important reasons why Earth needs defending and then Fixers0 you go - "Miracle happens" We may know that. The Admiral's don't.

Modifié par dahoughtonuk, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:31 .

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Or you could just hold your fleet back, and wait until you got a Deus Wx Machina to kill the reapers, so that you can asume control over the galaxy. 

That's cool.

It's just that the last race that waited for a deus ex machina to kill a Reaper went extinct and the weapon was disabled.

[Candidate 88766]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Massing you fleet near a point were it will obliterated is pointless, though.

And the Alliance knows it will be horribly outmatched...how?

Hackett, maybe 

Because of course the rest of the Alliance will believe that immeasurably old sentient warships from beyond the galaxy have come to attack Earth...