310 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

What's hard to understand, Bioware is afraid that General Audiances confuse two games set in the same universe.

He says, still completely missing the point.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Humanity will persevere. We are nothing if not resilient.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:24 .

[Fixers0]

didymos1120 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

What's hard to understand, Bioware is afraid that General Audiances confuse two games set in the same universe.

He says, still completely missing the point.

Point,.

Fanboys are so ignorent that they can't understand basic storytelling themes.  

[didymos1120]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Humanity will persevere. We are nothing if not resilient.

Maybe so, but we'll be resiliently poor and powerless.

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

But hey, now you've got Tali, what's not to like about that?

Okay, both you and Zulu are resorting to...whatever the hell the constant mentioning of Tali will accomplish (oh, let me guess, it's because of my banner. Truly a remarkable discovery. It must've required an astonishing amount of your brain power to come to that conclusion) when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. 

For the record, I'm glad that BioWare's team aren't following your or Zulu's route at all, because then Mass Effect would be Cerberus Effect and so unbelievably boring.

Not to mention that it would reject all logic whenever possible.

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Point,.

Fanboys are so ignorent that they can't understand basic storytelling themes.

Oh, and you do? Please...

This "holier than thou" bulls*it is getting tiresome and predictable.

[CroGamer002]

Fixers0 wrote...

Let me ask you a question, what has the Alliance to gain by pointlessly sending it's fleet to their doom?

1st Fleet is already at Earth since it's their job to protect Earth

2nd they are retreating and trying to save as much as they can since it's their job

3rd it's their job

[Arijharn]

o.0

Tell me; suppose the Turian's attacked humanity, suppose the Turian's manage to push us all the way back to the Sol system, do you think then that the System's Alliance will then say to the human parliament: "Sorry, you're on your own now -- the Sol System is outside our operational mandate."

That is what you're saying, and that's completely bs, especially since no other planet/system in human controlled space could possibly share the construction capability that Earth does. Berkeinstein may be closest, but considering the population differences between them too, I think the differences aren't trivial.

[MDT1]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I don't think Zulu or Fixers0 can write anything better than what BioWare's writers can.

Not to mention that the story would be so biased, it's not even funny.

Considering that i don't have a marketing team to worry, i think it's safe to assume that it isn't hard to surpass Bioware's writing team.

But hey, now you've got Tali, what's not to like about that?

Cosidering the quality of your argumentation I think its safe to assume that you would still not be able to surpass them.
All you say is:

I don't like the ME universe how BW created it.
I like Zulus's more.
So now Zulus is cannon and ME codex is fanfic.
Now ME series, especially in ME2 contradicts Zulus universe so story and codex are naturally full of plotholes.
Even worse in ME3 the characters are still based on the codex and lack the unlimited knowledge and perfect rationality(or better what I would call rationality) that would be granted in Zulus universe so they don't come to the same conclusion I would.
What rubbish writing is this BioWare!

Modifié par MDT1, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:33 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
I have no real qualms rescuing Earth from the Reapers if that becomes one of the eventual goals. What would bother me is if it overshadowed the entire game, which some of speculated since ME3 could very well be the case. Such is where I have become quite adamant in my campaigns against story angles with Earth as the focal point. Admittedly, there is a portion of me that would like to see Earth destroyed if only to witness how BioWare would approach such an enormous undertaking from a narrative perspective. Few games ever are quite so bold as to put Earth is jeopardy, to the point it may actually lose. Thus fair I commend BioWare for going forward with seemingly that precise objective.

I agree that saving Earth shouldn't overshadow the entire game. That's not the point I wanted to make. I'm just arguing against the opposing viewpoint that Earth doesn't matter a great deal for humanity.

With regards to humanity and their potential after the galactic showdown? I frankly could not care less if humans lose their stand. In fact, it could very well be an intriguing conclusion and utterly contrast to the frequent reiterated, "Humans are special" trope that plagues the majority of games. Likewise, Bioware may utilize an ending like this to further develop the series. What has become of humanity generations following their heroic sacrifice for the salvation of the galaxy? Shepard would be long dead and a new series or trilogy could arise from the wake. Seems quite appealing as a rough sketch for subsequent entries into the series.

Well, I do care - that is, most of my Shepards do. Others, not so much. It would be an interesting option for an ending but I wouldn't like be forced into it. Just as I wouldn't like into an ending that equals understanding Reaper technology with an extremist version of human domination.

A fair point, and one I could certainly back however given BioWare wanting to continue the series beyond Shepard's trilogy. I have an assumption if there is an humanity losing conclusion. It might become canon at least to some extent. Perhaps more along the lines x amount of years caused disaster or something.

Candidate 88766 wrote...

People keep going on about how many plotholes there are in ME2, but I honestly don't see that many. There are just as many, if not more, in ME1. 

While not perfect, ME1 has far less qualms in its overall structure. I could write, and actually have, a thesis of what is wrong with ME2's main plot. The Suicide Mission itself is asinine, at least how they went about it. Nevertheless, this topic will inevitable derail this thread. So if anyone wants to discuss it than create another thread so as not to get Ieldra2's lock. I will not comment here on this further for that reason.

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I don't think Zulu or Fixers0 can write anything better than what BioWare's writers can.

Not to mention that the story would be so biased, it's not even funny.

Considering that i don't have a marketing team to worry, i think it's safe to assume that it isn't hard to surpass Bioware's writing team.

But hey, now you've got Tali, what's not to like about that?

Whatever point you may have has effectively been lost, since you are boasting a claim you seemingly are unwilling to back up. Say what you will about the many people on this forum who heavily criticize ME2. Many have written enormous posts attempting to make their points clear and constructive and coincidently never claim to be superior writers, even if they might believe so. There are always exceptions of course. Either way, back up your points (in another thread) or you're just trolling.

In any seriousness, if any of you do start a thread. Do send me a link. If you have seen any of my posts, you will know I love to debate. 

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:35 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Honestly it's the whole humans are ones doing all the major fighting, the heros, the ones who take most of the damage and most of the credit, this whole humans special thing within Mass Effect universe. I would rather that wasn't special and didn't focus on humans mainly but all races equally. Any fight on scale of attack that reapers turn up in ME3 would imho require vast amounts of other races ships and such not just earth ships and humans fighting plus reapers only attacking earth would annoy me, they should be attacking not just earth but every race possible due to failure from ME1 of theirs.

If they can send an armada to earth and didn't use relay then they could send equal amount of ships to other planets from other races and do the job they intended to do from the offset without the relay. Simular battles should be going on with all other races homeworlds else it's not an invasion it's merely an incursion or small strike force of reapers if just one planet under attack.

Either way part of me hopes earth gets destroyed and suvivors end up space nomads and like Talis people, maybe some of the remaining population taken in by some of the other races but certainly would be ticked off big time if whole thing ended with humanity saves universe and keeps homeworld and becomes super power in the universe.. That would ****** me off tbh.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:31 .

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

With the majority of Alliance military funding, production, and leadership coming from Earth's major powers, of course it would lead to the demise of humanity as any formidable force in the galaxy.

[didymos1120]

Fixers0 wrote...

Fanboys are so ignorent that they can't understand basic storytelling themes.  

The irony here is, you're being stereotypically fanboyish with respect to ME1, utterly unwilling to recognize that it was just as riddled with SF tropes as ME2.

[jamesp81]

Fixers0 wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Fixers0:
It is correct that it is neither possible nor viable as a strategy to evacuate billions of humans from out under the Reapers' noses. I expect a significant population loss before the war is ended. All I'm saying is that if Earth is lost, whether by ultimate necessity or by callous abandonment by people like Zulu, then humanity will be destroyed as a power.

For me that's an accaptable loss, considereing that most of the Alliance backing and resources  comes from corporations and colonies outside of the solar system, i'm willing to take the risk.

Where did you get your information? All codex entries I found about that subject suggest otherwise.

Unlike you I'm not a ZULUfanboy so I have no unlimited faith in his prophecies. I need sources so please quote yours.

Let me ask you a question, what has the Alliance to gain by pointlessly sending it's fleet to their doom?

Nothing in particular.  There's a big difference, however, in temporarily ceding Earth to the Reapers and abandoning it entirely.  At some point, the fleet will be used to retake, or attempt to retake, the homeworld.  That's what humanity has a fleet for.  If the fleet does not ultimately attempt to do this, there's no REASON to even have a fleet.

And no self-respecting military force is going standby indefinitely while their homes are ravaged by space monsters.

[Someone With Mass]

Mesina2 wrote...

1st Fleet is already at Earth since it's their job to protect Earth

2nd they are retreating and trying to save as much as they can since it's their job

3rd it's their job

It's the reason Arcturus station was built as well. To protect the only known mass relay route that leads to Earth.

Thus, they're protecting Earth. It's their job.

[Dragoonlordz]

jamesp81 wrote...

Nothing in particular.  There's a big difference, however, in temporarily ceding Earth to the Reapers and abandoning it entirely.  At some point, the fleet will be used to retake, or attempt to retake, the homeworld.  That's what humanity has a fleet for.  If the fleet does not ultimately attempt to do this, there's no REASON to even have a fleet.

And no self-respecting military force is going standby indefinitely while their homes are ravaged by space monsters.

Also no military would ever let the enemy gain a foothold in their galaxy from which the enemy can use it to strike more and more places within. Logic implies they would try to stop them by any means from gaining that foothold.

I actually find it silly unless they explain in game through story how an entire fleet of ships the size of what they are could even get to earth without trying to be stopped or atleast tried to be stopped by not just human ships. Unless other races could not send ships to help stop them due to their own worlds are also being attacked so resources needed there then wouldn't be so iffy relying on human ships alone.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:41 .

[Arijharn]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

With the majority of Alliance military funding, production, and leadership coming from Earth's major powers, of course it would lead to the demise of humanity as any formidable force in the galaxy.

This I think cuts right to the heart of the matter. Even if the Systems Alliance has a separate representative to Earth's parliament, it's still Earth's parliament.

I don't think it's hard to imagine that corporations lobby and pay for some parts of the Systems Alliance upkeep, but that truly is fanfiction.

[jamesp81]

Saphra Deden wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

Wizz wrote...

Humans are special, you will be surprised how fast they will recover even 99% of them will be wiped out.

no we wouldn't there would be no diversity

We'd recover eventually, but it would take centuries, maybe even thousands of years. That's assuming the galaxy isn't consumed by the Reaper's ghosts anyway.

I'm not sure we would.  Consider that many of the thug regimes of the Terminus systems reside in the galactic north east.  In terms of where the Reapers enter the galaxy and their general direction, this would be one of the last places to be hit by them.

Even if a few scattered human outposts survive, they would be incapable of defending themselves and would be conquered in short order by such thug regimes.  Many of which have an axe to grind with humans.

You and I also know that the council wouldn't lift a damned finger to stop it, either.

[CroGamer002]

Fixers0 wrote...

Sure, it's a plothole.

Do you even know what the hell that even means?

[Arijharn]

jamesp81 wrote...
I'm not sure we would.  Consider that many of the thug regimes of the Terminus systems reside in the galactic north east.  In terms of where the Reapers enter the galaxy and their general direction, this would be one of the last places to be hit by them.

Even if a few scattered human outposts survive, they would be incapable of defending themselves and would be conquered in short order by such thug regimes.  Many of which have an axe to grind with humans.

You and I also know that the council wouldn't lift a damned finger to stop it, either.

Maybe, but that's assuming that the Reapers wont devastate their colonies as well. Humanity may be getting hit first, but we aren't the last.

[CroGamer002]

Fixers0 wrote...

Hackett knows about the Reapers, an i'm pretty he isn't going to let his fleet of ships being crushed by the reapers.

Hackett is not only Admiral and as far as we know 5th Fleet probably isn't even on Earth.

Even if it is, it was call from Prime Minister for him to send 5th Fleet over Earth.

Also in unrelated news, i support a military coup within the Alliance.

You can write your fanfiction here.

Modifié par Mesina2, 25 juillet 2011 - 01:47 .

[Ahriman]

You are taking my words too literally. There simply will be no such ending where humans are close to extinction. Of course there will casualties, but humanity will stay major race [or dominant if you really want so].
Yes, it's a metagaming.
*moves out*

[MDT1]

jamesp81 wrote...

I'm not sure we would.  Consider that many of the thug regimes of the Terminus systems reside in the galactic north east.  In terms of where the Reapers enter the galaxy and their general direction, this would be one of the last places to be hit by them.

Even if a few scattered human outposts survive, they would be incapable of defending themselves and would be conquered in short order by such thug regimes.  Many of which have an axe to grind with humans.

You and I also know that the council wouldn't lift a damned finger to stop it, either.

I think the council isn't as bad as it seems.
We play as Shepard and "know" while they could only trust and tbh that the reapers are an invention of saren/the geth is at least as reasonable as an ancient species that kills all advanced life in the galaxy all 50k years.
Once you don't take Reapers as granted it makes sense to act how they act.

[jamesp81]

Fixers0 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Sure, it's a 
*snip*

Eh, how?

Just because you (or the f*cknugget Zulu for that matter) don't like it doesn't make it a plothole.

Because no sane Admiral ever starts a pointless battle, unless he was written to do so.

They don't know for a fact that it's pointless.

They do know for a fact that enemies are coming to destroy their homes.  Just what the hell do you think they're going to do?

Senior military officers are not these far off demi-gods of war that function like machines.  They're just people.  Most of whom took an oath before God and country to defend their people with their lives if necessary.

Suppose you told one of these officers that the battle was hopeless and that he shouldn't stand and fight for his home.  There's an old saying: do not issue orders you know will not be obeyed.  This one would not be obeyed.  Nor should it be, under most circumstances.

The fleet exists to defend humanity.  It has no other purpose.  You cannot reasonably expect the fleet to simply salute, say yes sir, and leave their homes to be ravaged.  That's not going to happen, and to think it would is unreasonable.