6 réponses à ce sujet

[mr_afk]

I created my first poll! How exciting.

Anyway, as indicated by the thread topic and poll, I'm interested in the general consensus about the DA2 armour requirement system in relation to other more...fathomable systems.

I'm trying to look at this through a more gameplay perspective - While the element of making sense is nice, I'm more looking at whether people prefer the relatively more complex systems (like in Origins) or the less intuitive but easier to get the hang of DA2 system.

Armour requirements have a major impact on the builds possible. The large reason why armoured mages do not work is because of the somewhat strange prerequisites on warrior armour (why con?) and the lack of a difference between the armour ratings between classes.

So basically, the lack of viable cross-class builds is probably largely due to the requirements they've added- but not everybody likes these alternative builds.

So in future DA installments what type of armour requirement system would you like to see?


-----------------------
The older bioware games, both D&D and Starwars (e.g. Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR) used a form of prerequisite proficiencies and an associated penalty to dexterity related things. (I'm not completely sure about their older D&D games but I think they used a similar concept.)

This meant that in order to equip heavier armour it would be necessary to invest a skill/ability point or be in a heavier armour sort of class (which start with it). Additionally, while the armour bonus may be higher than lighter armour, it would limit the characters mobility and thus impact on certain dexterity related things (defence/dodging etc).

As you can see, this system makes logical sense. Heavier armour would thus fit better with certain builds but was by no means limited or locked to a class.


The elder scrolls used a system of weight and skill proficiencies. A character could equip any sort of armour at the cost of encumbrance. Encumbrance affected the amount of stuff they could carry (e.g. weaker characters would struggle with the weight of the heavier armour types) which in turn affected their speed.
The protection the armour gave also depended on the skill levels of the character - but I don't think that approach to skills would work quite as well in the dragonage world.


Dragon Age Origins seemed to combine these two ideas together- with the strength requirement replacing the proficiency system and the fatigue system emulating a similar effect to the decreased speed in the elder scrolls.



All of these armour requirement systems make sense and allow for more open gameplay in terms of cross-class itemisation. While certain armour types fit better into the generic mould style builds (e.g. warrior = heavier armour, mage = lighter armour) more alternative builds could tap into either the heavier armour route and warriors into the lighter more dexterity driven style.

DA2 simply doesn't make sense.

I remember this been one of the few complaints I made in my first constructive criticism review (probably my first post on this forum).
I like this game... But this simply doesn't make sense- having to have a higher dexterity and cunning to be able to equip high end gear either suggests that either the rogue gear is such a tight complicated squeeze that you need great agility and intelligence to slip into it or that they weren't considering the practical implications of such requirements.



These changes do make things easier- I remember lots of planning and struggling through the first few quest-lines without any decent armour while using my glass-cannon rogue archer in origins (using buffing and fade attributes to reach that mystical 20 str).
So I wouldn't completely write-off the DA2 system. It does have its merits.
But it has some pretty major cons. Like restricting certain cross-class builds more than necessary and making little logic.

Another relevant issue is how the armour ratings of armour between the classes are pretty much the same. You would think that wearing plate would do more than a little bit of cloth.



So...thoughts?

Modifié par mr_afk, 25 juillet 2011 - 03:38 .

[thendcomes]

There are two issues at hand here. One is from a gameplay perspective, and one is from an immersion/role-playing/realistic perspective. I don't care about anything that's in the latter category. I appreciate the fact that wearing cross-class armor requires an investment in points that don't ideally benefit your character. It makes practical, gameplay sense.

class restrictions are really the one thing I would like to see removed. I want to have a choice in what I wear, especially if there are hard decisions involved. Obviously this causes balance concerns because players will always find a combination that is more powerful than what the developers intended.

So to answer the question, I prefer any system that has the freedom to wear what you want, even if there is some sort of price you have to pay.

[ripstrawberry]

Personally I'd like to see a combination of the NWN system and the DAO system. to be specific:

1. I think the fatigue penalty in DAO made sense. You wear heavier armor you get more tired. I would want however that heavier armor provided really more protection than lighter armor types so that if people were willing to live with the penalties and requirements it would be worth it.

2. I like the fact that in DA2 we have a graphical option to keep helmets off. Keep that in.

3. I disliked the class restriction for armor in DA2. I'd like to be able to wear whatever I like. I liked DAO's str restriction for heavier armor because that made sense. Keep that in but make it negligible for lighter armors but really high for heavier armors. We don't need a lot of str to wear our everyday clothes right (for lighter armors)?

4. i'd like to implement NWN's system of heavier armor limiting dodge/def. Yes, i'm an old-school D&D fan. It make sense. I would take it a little step further wherein heavier armor also limits movement speed and attack speed. This is again why I said in #1 heavier armor should offer considerably more protection than lighter armors.

5. I liked the rune slots concept in DA and the in-built enhancements so keep that.

6. I like the concept in DA2 of armor levelling up with you but i would prefer that if it upgrades (like material-wise) the look should change form time to time like in DAO. That way it feels that your character is working on and adding to his armor so the material/look changes. Upgrades for the armor of companions should also change the look. I don't care much for not allowing companions to change armors. I typically solo anyways in most of my DA games. I do like companion quests though.

7. Set bonuses should be blatantly indicated. Don't make us guess bioware! Oh and make set bonuses significant! Most of the time in DA it's better to mix and match. Pretty much the only time you'd want a set bonus was in DAO w/ Wade's superior dragonscale armor (med version) or cailan's armor set. Give the players an incentive to actually use item sets!

8. i'd like it as well if they designed better looking light armors, robes, hats and helmets.

Just my 2 cents.

[Sabotin]

I can't really say which one I prefer, both have their merits. I'm for a longer time used to the D&D style, so that one seems more natural to me.

For a stat based I think I'd keep the origins one, but I'd change a few things. I'd remove the default fatigue system. I'd make you able to equip armor for which you don't meet the requirements. I'd add a fatigue increase from every point you miss to get to the requirement. Maybe some special requrement for heavy armor like class/skill/training requirement.

But probably that'd be to complicated to put into a game.

[Siven80]

If there has to be requirements on items, i would choose class restrictions only.

The player would then choose what class items to use and wear based on the properties and bonuses of the items.

But then i liked the unique companion armors in DA2, but would like a better upgrade system for all armors rather than finding new armors. What can i say, i hate useless loot.

I really dislike "realistic" systems like item durabilities/maintenance and things like fatigue. DAO's fatigue mechanic was horrible, not fun at all and really wasnt needed. Games imo are supposed to be fun.

[Haplose]

ripstrawberry wrote...

Personally I'd like to see a combination of the NWN system and the DAO system. to be specific:

1. I think the fatigue penalty in DAO made sense. You wear heavier armor you get more tired. I would want however that heavier armor provided really more protection than lighter armor types so that if people were willing to live with the penalties and requirements it would be worth it.

2. I like the fact that in DA2 we have a graphical option to keep helmets off. Keep that in.

3. I disliked the class restriction for armor in DA2. I'd like to be able to wear whatever I like. I liked DAO's str restriction for heavier armor because that made sense. Keep that in but make it negligible for lighter armors but really high for heavier armors. We don't need a lot of str to wear our everyday clothes right (for lighter armors)?

4. i'd like to implement NWN's system of heavier armor limiting dodge/def. Yes, i'm an old-school D&D fan. It make sense. I would take it a little step further wherein heavier armor also limits movement speed and attack speed. This is again why I said in #1 heavier armor should offer considerably more protection than lighter armors.

5. I liked the rune slots concept in DA and the in-built enhancements so keep that.

6. I like the concept in DA2 of armor levelling up with you but i would prefer that if it upgrades (like material-wise) the look should change form time to time like in DAO. That way it feels that your character is working on and adding to his armor so the material/look changes. Upgrades for the armor of companions should also change the look. I don't care much for not allowing companions to change armors. I typically solo anyways in most of my DA games. I do like companion quests though.

7. Set bonuses should be blatantly indicated. Don't make us guess bioware! Oh and make set bonuses significant! Most of the time in DA it's better to mix and match. Pretty much the only time you'd want a set bonus was in DAO w/ Wade's superior dragonscale armor (med version) or cailan's armor set. Give the players an incentive to actually use item sets!

8. i'd like it as well if they designed better looking light armors, robes, hats and helmets.

Just my 2 cents.

Signed.

[Ringquelle]

thendcomes wrote...

There are two issues at hand here. One is from a gameplay perspective, and one is from an immersion/role-playing/realistic perspective..

For those who care about the looks of the armor, it would be nice to also have extra armor slots for items that purely change how you look. Some MMO's have this system, in which there are additional slots and aditional items that change the way your equipment looks. So, instead of the pineaplelookalike mage cowl, you could instead be wearing something that looks like a circlet, but with the stats of the cowl.