52 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

lol I can't see him becoming a religious tyrant. They're cowards imo, and he doesn't have enough balls to be a coward.

here's the link to the thread I was talking about: http://social.biowar...1/index/7691016

[Huntress]

people complain of all the killing they do in DA2, then they ask to kill a companion or a li... yes /headxplodes.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Thanks for the link, I'll check this out.

Thanks everyone for you're input, it helped me understand other players dislike of the wave action. I have to sign out for now. I've got a package that needs to be tracked down.

Have a great day everyone.

[Tirfan]

Off-topic much - it doesn't apparently take long anymore for topics to get completely siderailed, so I just have to participate. Oh I wish for the day we see a city that is to some extent believable.

The Citadel always makes me want to cry a bit. Denerim was rather bad, so was Kirkwall, while some people spoke.. something, then there were the infamous low-res furniture people there. Oh come on?

And why don't houses have doors on them in Kirkwall? (if I recall correctly, most of them don't have)

Waves.. waves, How do the thieves get to the roofs of houses if they don't have doors on them? How do they survive the landing when they jump from the roof?

[TEWR]

psh who needs to be among the on topic people when you can join the off topic rebels? Fight the power! Don't be a conformist!


Which is really me saying, don't conform to their side, conform to our side!

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 juillet 2011 - 06:36 .

[Tirfan]

Who are they  and what do they stand for, and who are you.

Fighting the power is always a good thing tho.

[Melca36]

Because seeing waves materialize out of no where and come at you was utterly ridiculous and lazy on the developers part.

[Realmzmaster]

I with you OP! The wave action did not bother me. If you encounter a mob on the street most if not all will be low level critters. Those are the people who basically work the streets. Very rarely are you going to find boss or elite levels doing grunt work.
The way grunt workers overcome is through sheer numbers which is why wolf packs, lion prides, bees and ants are so dangerous. Individually they are easy, their sheer numbers wear you down. That is the point of wave action.
I find it lame if all the enemies are waiting in one area for my party to attack them. Which was one of the problems with DAO Maybe it because I also play wargames, In wargames you never know when reinforcements might show up. You plan accordingly. If your initial setup fails you have to come up with a plan on the fly.

The problem with the wave action in DA2 may have been the execution. It did not bother me, but it upset many others. I think one reason is now you had to keep a better eye on your squishes (like mages). The mage could be overwhelmed from behind, which made sense to me because you were on a city street. Reinforcements could come from anywhere including rooftops. (Warriors dropping off of rooftops in full plate is silly. Rogues not as silly).

If inside a mansion the waves could come through any door. You should find more elite type inside of their headquarters. But I doubt anyone wants encounters where any party member can be one shotted by the enemy or have every encounter like Bysmor, Beacon and Gifre with the added bonus if you do the quest at the wrong time you can throw in a dragon with dragonlings.

The implementation could have been better. The wave action is fine IMHO.

[Melca36]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Oh it was just some random status I made some time ago where I said Kirkwall wasn't as dead as I thought it was.

I thought they did alot better job in DA2 with generic npc standing around than in DAO. Talking.servants double checking their shopping lists, guards meeting at the hanged man later for drinks I thought was a nice touch.  The ladies of the evening standing around telling you to move on or stop for a chat or other things. 

Please explain how these 2D Characters add life to the city?  I can understand about some the npcs that talked. Those worked but these non speaking characters add NO life at all.

[PsychoBlonde]

Naltair wrote...

Or have a way to stop a second wave, maybe a leader has an animation where they are about to blow a horn or somehow alert allies to call in reinforcements and give the tactical player a chance to shut them down before the fight gets harder. I also believe that a new wave should add a new dynamic to the fight not just more people to kill. It should change the scope of the battle.

I'm in favor of this.  The combat should reward you for playing well, and one way to do this is to have it be possible to fend off the annoying paratroopers by taking down the bosses fast enough.  And, seriously, if you explode their buddies into chum, the random gang members aren't going to just keep charging you until you've murdered ALL of them.

It didn't help that every single fight was so big that it felt like I was murdering the entire population of Kirkwall every time.

[Rogue Roxy]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Or have a way to stop a second wave, maybe a leader has an animation where they are about to blow a horn or somehow alert allies to call in reinforcements and give the tactical player a chance to shut them down before the fight gets harder. I also believe that a new wave should add a new dynamic to the fight not just more people to kill. It should change the scope of the battle.

I'm in favor of this.  The combat should reward you for playing well, and one way to do this is to have it be possible to fend off the annoying paratroopers by taking down the bosses fast enough.  And, seriously, if you explode their buddies into chum, the random gang members aren't going to just keep charging you until you've murdered ALL of them.

It didn't help that every single fight was so big that it felt like I was murdering the entire population of Kirkwall every time.

I'd love to see that implemented. Nice way to reward a good player. Maybe add a bit of XP for doing so, too.

~ Roxy

[Realmzmaster]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Or have a way to stop a second wave, maybe a leader has an animation where they are about to blow a horn or somehow alert allies to call in reinforcements and give the tactical player a chance to shut them down before the fight gets harder. I also believe that a new wave should add a new dynamic to the fight not just more people to kill. It should change the scope of the battle.

I'm in favor of this.  The combat should reward you for playing well, and one way to do this is to have it be possible to fend off the annoying paratroopers by taking down the bosses fast enough.  And, seriously, if you explode their buddies into chum, the random gang members aren't going to just keep charging you until you've murdered ALL of them.

It didn't help that every single fight was so big that it felt like I was murdering the entire population of Kirkwall every time.

You could also enrage them by taking out their bosses which happens a great many times in fights. So it could have the opposite effect. Where they will attack you to the last man standing. The point of a good group is if the boss or commander goes down someone else takes up the lead. Now that new leader can decide to retreat or stage an all out attack on the party.
Why does everyone think that these groups are small? If a group perceives you as a threat to their existance do you not think they would come after you with as many men as possible? Most organizations like Sharps have many members. Remember Kirkwall has becoame a refugee town with a great many people willing to do anything to make money.

[In Exile]

I don't recall good encounters in DA:O. They all seemed very vulnerable to death by fireball on nightmare. DA2 had as useless encounter design, but it did at least seem to have better party sinergy.

[Naltair]

Huntress wrote...

people complain of all the killing they do in DA2, then they ask to kill a companion or a li... yes /headxplodes.

They like killing when it suits their needs.

[Valus]

Because it's repetitive, not tactical, destroys immersion, obvious time filler, and lazy. There is nothing good about it unless you honestly don't care about the RPG or the strategy elements and just enjoy mashing buttons and hearing "If we kill them we get to take their stuff" 5000 times an hour. If that is what you enjoy then awesome but it doesn't belong in a party based RPG trying to get you immersed in the game world.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Good use of waves:

DAO: the final assault on Denerim when you and all your companions and the armies invade the city together. You have to fend off a HORDE of darkspawn that have taken over the city while trying to enter the gates. You have lots of companions and an army with you. It's appropriate that they would be super numerous and come in waves!

DA2 either the Act 2 finale Qunari invasion, or Act 3 finale when you are siding with mages or templars and need to hold off the enemy before the boss fights. Both sides are numerous to the point of near armies.

Bad use of waves? Pretty much anywhere else.

[TEWR]

Tirfan wrote...

Who are they  and what do they stand for, and who are you.

Fighting the power is always a good thing tho.

They're them! and they do....things!

[Realmzmaster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Who are they  and what do they stand for, and who are you.

Fighting the power is always a good thing tho.

They're them! and they do....things!

We have met the enemy and them is us.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 26 juillet 2011 - 03:33 .

[steve1945]

furryrage59 wrote...

I hated wave action ALL the time as it ruined immersion, seemed lazy and dispensed with any semblence of tactics.

Quoting for truth

[Cyberarmy]

alex90c wrote...

Bioware should take a look at Fable 3 if they want to know how to create decent cities/villages. Yeah the interaction with characters in Fable sucked, but Bowerstone felt pretty alive. Also, Assassin's Creed.

They don't need to look that far away. They have got more alive cities at BGs and PS:T, they know how to do it but it seems they cannot do with this engine.

As for the topic;
Wave system was OK for the first 10-15 times. After 2000th wave it just get boring... İ understand i support wave system for some battles but not for all. This was a tedious mistake in my humble opinion.

And there is no party against party fights at DA2...  İt was a minority in Origins but become non-existant in Kirkwall.

İ really want to battle another party consist of a force wizard, an archer thief , a reaver and a high defensive dual thief.

Or some tougher enemies who fight you ALONE.Still remember my first humiliation at Mage Circle's Revenant at DAO.

Modifié par Cyberarmy, 26 juillet 2011 - 08:47 .

[Gotholhorakh]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I keep seeing on the boards that many players didn't like the wave action combat.  With waves and waves of enemies.  It took me awhile to settle into tactics to play the waves and once I finally learned how I was loving the waves and waves of enemies.  I found this thrilling.  I had the sensation of fighting for my life.

Why did most players hate the waves of enemies?  

Personally, I'd like to have a setting option to have waves or not to have waves.   I don't know if this is possible; but, I'd like to have the option.  I don't think it is right as a player that my game was ruined because of other players whinning.  

So, do more waves of enemies happen on the harder settings now after patch 1.03?   Just wondering on this. 

Please state if you liked the wave action or not and your reasons why.  I'm just being curious here.

 

I felt like the waves of exploding enemies were trying to rail-road me into playing shoot-'em-up style, like Fantasy Galaga.

I always enjoyed these games for the small bit of tactical gameplay they offered though, so there were other ways in which DA2 became alien to me beyond the spawn waves.

[alex90c]

Cyberarmy wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Bioware should take a look at Fable 3 if they want to know how to create decent cities/villages. Yeah the interaction with characters in Fable sucked, but Bowerstone felt pretty alive. Also, Assassin's Creed.

They don't need to look that far away. They have got more alive cities at BGs and PS:T, they know how to do it but it seems they cannot do with this engine.

As for the topic;
Wave system was OK for the first 10-15 times. After 2000th wave it just get boring... İ understand i support wave system for some battles but not for all. This was a tedious mistake in my humble opinion.

And there is no party against party fights at DA2...  İt was a minority in Origins but become non-existant in Kirkwall.

İ really want to battle another party consist of a force wizard, an archer thief , a reaver and a high defensive dual thief.

Or some tougher enemies who fight you ALONE.Still remember my first humiliation at Mage Circle's Revenant at DAO.

Those optional proving fights in Orzammar were pretty intense if you ddn't know what you were doing too.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@Melca36

I really don't see how waves of enemies would break immersion. If you're fighting next to buildings then it stands to reason when we saw enemies jumping down that they are jumping down off of the roofs. It was logical. Most of the buildings in Kirkwall did have roofs. Same thing in the caves from hidden alcoves and secret doors. The only thing I didn't like with the waves was the enemies didn't match up with my party. They needed normal or higher bosses in some of those waves to mix things up. I got the sensation that while I'm in battle from the corner of my eye with peripheral vision I could see the enemies coming at my party from the roofs. From this standpoint I think they executed this just fine. Just like real warriors in battle would see fighting in an urban environment.

I also agree with Realmzmaster that with these waves you did at times have to take control of your mages to keep them out of danger.   It made you pay attention to you're whole party, not just you as the main pc.   Personally, I enjoyed the wave action once I figured out how to play through the battle.  I have no problems with them and I guess this means I'm ready for the hard settings even though my puter will groan.

As for the non talking npcs, I took them as having a private conversation that I wasn't privy too. They do show that people are going about their lives and meeting up in the various parts of Kirkwall. I did enjoy the conversations some of them were having with themselves. When I heard the guy trying to find his wife's dog, I immediately thought of the lines from DAO about the Bann's daughter spending alot of money on puppies. Also the servants going through their shopping list. I didn't find any of this immersion breaking, I found it added to atmosphere.

@Kimberly Shaw

I love that battle for Denerim. I also enjoy the battle for the Vigil better than the one for Amaranthine. I normally save the Vigil because I enjoy that battle so much. I love playing through both of those.

@ Alex

LOL, I remember the first time I did the proving, I got my hinny handed to me.  It was fun though.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 27 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .

[Jarate]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

@Melca36

I really don't see how waves of enemies would break immersion. If you're fighting next to buildings then it stands to reason when we saw enemies jumping down that they are jumping down off of the roofs. It was logical. Most of the buildings in Kirkwall did have roofs. Same thing in the caves from hidden alcoves and secret doors. The only thing I didn't like with the waves was the enemies didn't match up with my party. They needed normal or higher bosses in some of those waves to mix things up. I got the sensation that while I'm in battle from the corner of my eye with peripheral vision I could see the enemies coming at my party from the roofs. From this standpoint I think they executed this just fine. Just like real warriors in battle would see fighting in an urban environment.

Well, logically someone jumping off a roof in full armor would break their legs. And reinforcements would be coordinated. The issue with this mechanic is that it isn't used intelligently - the concept of enemies that do stuff like call in backup is awesome (as would be enemies that run away or work in groups). It shouldn't just be thrown into every fight without context.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ Jarate

What you say makes sense except for the fact that every battle that we saw in DA2 all of the enemies had on light armor even the warriors. They all wore light or medium leathers. The only ones who had on full armor were templars. They didn't seem to have a problem with jumping out or off of cliff ledges and roofs in full armor. I understand what you're saying though.  I just wanted to point this out.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 27 juillet 2011 - 06:57 .