22 réponses à ce sujet

[RosInSF]

 I've just started playing the DAO Ultimate Edition for the Mac and have created a Dual-Wielding Human Noble Rogue, who is still at Level One.  The persona ("alignment") of my character is "good" and "diplomatic" and will remain so throughout the game.   I plan to travel with a full party.  Am not sure who yet but probably characters who complement my abilities, i.e., a warrior who can taunt (tank), a mage to do CC and AoE, and a healer/buffer.  I've played a DW (daggers) Rogue in other RPGs and like stealthing, scouting, backstabbing, persuading people, setting traps, lockpicking, and, if I have enough points left, using poison.  I don't put points into picking pockets because my characters are usually "good," so I don't steal except when necessary.  I will probably specialize as a Duellist and an Assassin.  The difficulty level I am playing on is Normal.

What I would like is to have your advice on the most efficient adding of attribute points.  When I created my character, I added one point to Strength, 3 points to Dexterity, and one point to Cunning.  So I now have S 12, D 16, and C 11.

I understand that I receive 3 attribute points every two levels.  So what is the most efficient way to add them?  In other words, when I reach Level 3, how should I divide the three attribute points among Strength, Dexterity, and Cunning?  And the same question for Level 5, Level 7, Level 9, etc.?

I understand that eventually I will reach a point where it will not be efficient to add any more points to Strength because I will have enough to get the quality of Rogue armor I will need for the rest of my time in Origins.  Can you tell me what level I will be at when buying (or looting) that armor becomes available?  I have read that the Strength points needed wll be 20.  Is that a base (raw) Strength score?  If not, when should I stop adding attribute points to Strength as I level up?

Thanks for any suggestions you can give me.

[theskymoves]

You'll get 3 attribute points and a talent point with every level. Rogues get a skill point every two levels; mages and warriors every three levels.

I love playing rogues,but I'm not the right person to give specifics on your build, since I take a loopy, non-scientific and fairly hap-hazard approach to things: build enough strength to wear good light armor (and the odd set of medium armor, depending on circumstance), and pump dexterity and cunning, on occasion tossing a point into Constitution or Willpower as I reach mid-game. My understanding (which may very well be flawed) is that archers benefit from high dexterity, and dual-wield characters from high cunning, for what that is worth.

~tsm

Modifié par theskymoves, 25 juillet 2011 - 06:02 .

[gandanlin]

I'd say take a good long look at the dual-wield and rogue talent trees. In order to reach the top tier of talents you will need to have a certain number of points in certain attributes. It might be worth having a rough plan for how to reach the required numbers. Leveling maxes at level 25.

Probably dexterity is the most important attribute for rogues. But strength, constitution, willpower, and cunning also are important attributes.

[gandanlin]

Regarding armor and armor sets, the following might be useful:

http://dragonage.wik...m_sets_(Origins)

[sami jo]

There are several threads with suggested DW builds in the Builds forum. DEX/CUN with just enough strength for armor (20 tops) is the general consensus with the Lethality talent as soon as possible so that you can substitute your cunning rank for strength when calculating damage.

[Last Darkness]

Well theres several ways to build your character and what you prsented is rather medicore by the community.

As a Rogue you have to deicide immedietly whether you want to duel wield daggers or large weapons or be a Archer.. You also need to deicide do I want to try and exclusivly backstab enemies or just be a scrappy fighter and not worry about backstabs. (Note Backstabing dosnt mean you have to do it from behind all the time thanks to the talent Coup De Grace)

Your most important stats will be Cunning/Dexterity.
Now theres several ways to build a character.

Almost all Dexterity if your duel wielding daggers is a easy build.
You can also build for Cunning instead and get around 32 Dex and put almost all other points into Cunning.
The differance is that Cunning builds do more damage while dex builds survive a bit better due to higher defense, they also have a easier time hitting enemies.

You can also be more of a thug or warrior rogue and not worry about backstabing so much(Coup De Grace still works) and focus on more Str and/or Cun and wear heavier armors. This is usualy best done with a larger size weapon duel wielder, like duel axes or duel swords.

For Spec keep in mind that Bard/Assassin all their abilities use Cunning to calculate their effects. Ranger just allows a pet for extra constant damage, offtank and source of additional stuns. Duelist augments your attack/defense scores (Chance to hit or be hit) and has a very nice talent that makes all hits critical(not backstabs, normal crits) for a short time which is also achivied with Coup De Grace talent whenever you stun a enemy for automatic backstabs. So its kinda redundant.

I suggest Assassin/Bard or Bard/Assassin for your standard duel daggers, Cunning focused backstaber rogue. This is the official "best" setup on these forums.

Im particularly fond of Cunning focused Ranger/Assassin, and Duelist/Bard with Duel Axes(Cunning focused).

[Requiesta De Silencia]

Well then, since you're a rogue you'll be using light armor and maximizing your dodging abilities as much as possible.

I recommend buffing your strength up to about 18 for your armor (you can get bonus attribute points from a special area I won't spoil 4 u :3) and then keeping your dex and cunning at a 2:1 ratio, gives you fairly high armor penetration and skill bonuses while keeping your dodge up.

As for weapons make sure you use daggers that amplify your critical and backstab damage if you plan to take my advice on build/spec, otherwise listen to Last Darkness as he's an expert on this kinda stuff

As for talents, grab up to expert dual weilding as fast as possible as well as momentum, grab lethality and evasion asap, and grab coup de grace asap. You can get your mechanical expertise and stealth in those quiet levels where you're waiting for a specific stat requirement or skill requirement. I do recommend you grab 2nd level stealth by your 7th level though especially stealthy item use (bomb throwing ftw).

As for specs, I played through my best character as an Assassin/Duelist. With the fourth tier duelist talent, all my critical amplifier equips, and high dexterity (which = high base dagger damage) I managed to consistently hit pretty high (my record damage was over 1,000, if I'm not going insane from college and 600 if I am, and considering I was consistently hitting close to my record with half the normal attack speed...beep ) what I didn't kill in the first hit from stealth usually got shot to death by my archer companion. I will warn you that the duelist benefits are meager aside from the last talent, just a warning.

[Last Darkness]

Yeah as Silence says

You really need to give us more details otherwise we are going to give you builds we know and like, and im a fan of extreme dps builds.

Silence's Warden "Myth" hit a guy in Awakening once for 1,233 damage on a backstab.
Yet he still only contributed only 37% Party damage lol

[Time4Tiddy]

A couple things to consider: you will get approximately 31-32ish talents over the course of the game, and around 18-19 skills, assuming you also purchase all the tomes. You will need 12 of the talents to fill up dual wielding tree, 4 to get max lock-picking (which you said was something you want to do), and 8 to fill both your specializations. You probably want at least 2 in stealth so you can disarm traps and throw grenades without breaking stealth. So that's 26, with only about 6 left to play around with. Lethality will take 3 more to get up to, and Coup de Grace takes 2, leaving you with one or none extra. Personally I find dual-wielding rogue to be the least flexible in terms of talent builds, since you basically need almost everything.

Depending on which specializations you take, you may be able to shave off a talent or two. Duelist you'll want all four, assassin can get away with two, bard you'll want at least three, and ranger is probably the weakest choice for a stealthy backstabber.

Personally I go with a stat build where I alternate 1 dex/2 cunning with 1 dex/1 cunning/1 other (str,will,con). Cunning is absolutely your most important stat for pure damage numbers and also boosts your persuades and lockpicking. You'll get a plenty high dex just putting in one point every time, since most of your gear will also buff dex. Just my opinion, but needing dex for dodge means you don't have a good tank or cc, and cunning is needed for armor penetration which will matter more against most enemies.

Avoid evasion at all costs, it is a horrible talent that cancels your current attack to show a nice animation of you dodging or parrying. Feign death is absolutely useless and takes way too long to activate/deactivate. If you want to drop aggro in combat, putting a third or fourth point in stealth is much better.

If you want to open every chest in the game, you'll need to make sure you have at least one point in lockpicking in the intro, and at least two points in lockpicking by the time you enter the Tower of Ishal (put the point in at level 4 or 5). Otherwise you'll miss some chests and not be able to go back to them. Cunning also affects your ability to lockpick. Some have said that 3 points in lockpicking is sufficient with high enough cunning, although I don't know if that is true myself.

The last thing I will say, there is a pretty extensive and fun quest line that is only available if you have at least one point in stealing (the skill not a talent). You don't really need to pickpocket anyone at any other point in the game, but the quest giver will only offer the quest if you've got at least that one measly point. I recommend doing it just to experience more of the game. Plus rogues get so many skill points that it won't hurt you to "waste" one, especially considering you'll get at least a full level out of all the quests that you'll open up. You'll need that point before you get to Denerim.

Sorry for being so long-winded, and of course these are all just my opinions so I don't mean to dismiss anyone else's suggestions. I've tried to be fairly spoiler free here, just letting you know when you absolutely need certain skills or talents. Dual-wield rogue is my absolute favorite class/spec in the game!

[Requiesta De Silencia]

Last Darkness wrote...

Yeah as Silence says

You really need to give us more details otherwise we are going to give you builds we know and like, and im a fan of extreme dps builds.

Silence's Warden "Myth" hit a guy in Awakening once for 1,233 damage on a backstab.
Yet he still only contributed only 37% Party damage lol

let's just say I've gotten better at building mages since my first one :x  and I used valenna and anders a lot...and they were hitting in the insane range...and beep

[Last Darkness]

Requiesta De Silencia wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

Yeah as Silence says

You really need to give us more details otherwise we are going to give you builds we know and like, and im a fan of extreme dps builds.

Silence's Warden "Myth" hit a guy in Awakening once for 1,233 damage on a backstab.
Yet he still only contributed only 37% Party damage lol

let's just say I've gotten better at building mages since my first one :x  and I used valenna and anders a lot...and they were hitting in the insane range...and beep

Theres a reason they are feared thats for sure.

[RosInSF]

Thanks so much for your very helpful comments! Sorry about starting this thread in this forum; I hadn't seen the Build forum yet.

I like the idea of being a backstabbing dual-dagger-wielding Rogue. The Assassin/Bard combo seems good to me. I'm still not sure whether to emphasize Dexterity or Cunning, but I'm favoring Cunning. I need to read more about the two and digest what you all have said. After reading Sami Jo's reply about 3 days ago, I found another web site that has helped me a lot: http://biowarefans.c...on-rogue-guide/ . So very much information to digest! Learning to play this game is a bit overwhelming. heh

I have created a Human Noble Rogue with the following stats. I put all 5 attribute points into Dex, so I now (at Level One) have DEX 20. I put my Skill point into Improved Combat Training and my Talent points into Dual Weapon Sweep and Flurry. At Level Two, I will put my Talent point into Lockpicking or Stealth and 2 attribute points into Strength (to bring STR up to 14 so that I can wear Tier 3 armor asap) and 1 attribute point into DEX. At Level Three, I will put 3 attribute points into DEX, bringing it up to DEX 24, my Skill point into Expert Combat Training, and my Talent point into Momentum.

Is there anything to unlock before I reach Level 4? If not, I will add Stealth instead of Lockpicking at Level Two if there is no chest that needs to be lock picked before Level 4.

I don't like putting off Coercion until Level 5, because I do like to persuade NPCs (to open up additional game content if there is any), but I guess gaining Momentum at Level 3 is worth it. What do any of you think?

Modifié par RosInSF, 29 juillet 2011 - 12:26 .

[Requiesta De Silencia]

Gaining momentum by level 3 won't help you much to be completely honest. Momentum has a small stamina drain when active, which will usually be offset by your equips and talents later in the game...but in my experience it's a very stamina-heavy talent in the earlier levels.

Coercion, however, is very VERY useful both early and later on in the game so I recommend that you have at least one level in it by level 3.

Other then that, I recommend getting the first level of mechanical expertise at level 1 or 2 and grabbing tier 2 stealth by level 4 or 5.

Also cunning heavy improves damage, talents, and skills. Dexterity improves damage and dodge. Basic break down of your two favored stats

[RosInSF]

@ Requiesta OK. Deft Hands (Rank 1) at Level 2, Rank 1 Stealth at Level 3 and Rank 2 Stealth at Level 4. Rank 1 Coercion at Level 3. Sounds good. Thanks!

[Last Darkness]

Momentum is only good if your auto attacking or backstabing.

[Time4Tiddy]

Basically you need one point in lockpicking in your origin if you want to open all the chests. That point will last you through the Korcari Wilds, but you will need a second point in order to open the chests in the Tower of Ishal and Lothering. I would recommend starting off with one point, or there will be chests in your origin you can't open. You can put the second point in at either level 4 or 5 and still manage to open everything you come across.

I definitely encourage you not to skimp on cunning.

Your damage is determine by either your strength, or if you have lethality, by your cunning. Dexterity affects your ability to hit and your chance to crit, but not your damage. If you are going to skip lethality you must buff strength considerably, this is why characters like Zevran or Sigrun have really high strength despite being rogues.

Also remember cunning will affect your ability to pick locks and your ability to persuade. Basically you get a "point" in lockpicking and a "point" in persuasion for every cunning you have over 10. Taking the skill line for coercion gives 10 points per block, and the talents in lockpicking gives 10 points per block. So for example, two talents in lockpicking and a 24 cunning would give you 34 skill at lockpicking. (20+(24-10)) There are chests in the game as high as 65 skill needed to open, meaning you'd need all four lockpicking + at least 35 in cunning. Same with persuasion checks.

[Time4Tiddy]

RosInSF wrote...

@ Requiesta OK. Deft Hands (Rank 1) at Level 2, Rank 1 Stealth at Level 3 and Rank 2 Stealth at Level 4. Rank 1 Coercion at Level 3. Sounds good. Thanks!

What is it you're taking instead of Coercion at level 1?  You will miss some possible persuade checks in your Origin without it.

IMO, starting out a human noble rogue, take your starting skill in Coercion since you get Combat Training for free, and take Deft Hands as one of your starter talents so you don't miss any chests.  You can put the second talent into either stealth or dual weapon training.  Dual weapon sweep is nice except it's pretty low damage this early in the game and will pull aggro off your tank.  Dual striking is a total waste when starting out as it drops your ability to backstab or crit for extremely minor increase in regular dps.

[Last Darkness]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

Basically you need one point in lockpicking in your origin if you want to open all the chests. That point will last you through the Korcari Wilds, but you will need a second point in order to open the chests in the Tower of Ishal and Lothering. I would recommend starting off with one point, or there will be chests in your origin you can't open. You can put the second point in at either level 4 or 5 and still manage to open everything you come across.

I definitely encourage you not to skimp on cunning.

Your damage is determine by either your strength, or if you have lethality, by your cunning. Dexterity affects your ability to hit and your chance to crit, but not your damage. If you are going to skip lethality you must buff strength considerably, this is why characters like Zevran or Sigrun have really high strength despite being rogues.

Also remember cunning will affect your ability to pick locks and your ability to persuade. Basically you get a "point" in lockpicking and a "point" in persuasion for every cunning you have over 10. Taking the skill line for coercion gives 10 points per block, and the talents in lockpicking gives 10 points per block. So for example, two talents in lockpicking and a 24 cunning would give you 34 skill at lockpicking. (20+(24-10)) There are chests in the game as high as 65 skill needed to open, meaning you'd need all four lockpicking + at least 35 in cunning. Same with persuasion checks.

Heres some useful links.
Stealing dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Stealing
Lockpicking dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Deft_Hands
Coercion dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Coercion

I feel the need to correct the misinformation about the attributes though. Strength adds to damage and chance to hit, lethality will substitute cunning as if it were str to calculate damage only if your cun is higher then your str but it dosnt add to your chance to hit at all. Dexterity boosts your chance to hit, boosts your defense score(chance to be hit), and increases damage with peircing weapons(Daggers and Arrows) also Daggers use 50% of your Dex/Str to calculate damage.  So Boosting Dex, Str or Cun with lethality boosts your damage. But boosting Dex  boosts your defense as a added bonus as well.

Your Cunning score -10 is your modifier for Coercion/Stealing/Lock Picking attempts. Each point of the Coercion skill adds +25 for dialog purposes only. Each point of Deft Hands(Lockpicking) adds +10 for Lockpicking only. Each point of Stealing adds +5 for Stealing purposes only.
Its wildly considered if your a Cunning build Rogue later game if you can respec or transfer into Awakening you only need 1 rank of none at all once your at 75-100+ Cunning.

Also keep in mind you can use your companions abilities. You dont need all skills on your main character except for Coercion.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 02 août 2011 - 04:10 .

[RosInSF]

Have created a new Warden, a Dwarf Noble DW (Daggers) Cunning-based Rogue. I switched from Human Noble to Dwarf Noble because I like the dwarf's magic resistance. Am at Level One. I brought up Strength to 13, and DEX and CUN to 16 each. Skills: Coercion, Poison, and CT 1. Talents: Deft Hands, Dirty Fighting, and DW Training. Am stuck at the moment with a sword and shield and medium armor. The game designers apparently didn't think much of dwarf rogues, or maybe rogues are shunned in dwarven society. Who knows! Anyway, unlike Human Noble Rogues I find myself initially outfitted as a warrior. Hope to change that asap.

Plan to add Stealth at Level 2 and to increase STR to 14, DEX and CUN to 17 each. What talent and skill do you recommend at Level 3? I've read a number of Rogue builds, but they all vary.

I will eventually need one point in Stealing if I am to do that Stealing quest later on. And I would eventually like one point in Trap Making so that I can lay traps. I was thinking of getting Stealth Item Use at Level 4 and a second rank in Lockpicking at Level 5. That's a lot of Utility skills. I don't want to skimp on Combat skills, however. At this point, I need advice on how best to level up in this very early part of the game so as to make the most effective use of my Rogue talents and skills. I don't know what level I will be at when I meet Alistair. And I don't have Dog along as a kind of tank to draw aggro, so I'm not quite sure how to proceed. I welcome any advice.

Modifié par RosInSF, 03 août 2011 - 01:06 .

[Time4Tiddy]

Last Darkness wrote...

I feel the need to correct the misinformation about the attributes though. Strength adds to damage and chance to hit, lethality will substitute cunning as if it were str to calculate damage only if your cun is higher then your str but it dosnt add to your chance to hit at all. Dexterity boosts your chance to hit, boosts your defense score(chance to be hit), and increases damage with peircing weapons(Daggers and Arrows) also Daggers use 50% of your Dex/Str to calculate damage.  So Boosting Dex, Str or Cun with lethality boosts your damage. But boosting Dex  boosts your defense as a added bonus as well.

Thanks for the correction on Dex.  I know they kept saying they were going to fix the dagger/arrow damage modifier but it seemed like patch after patch it kept getting skipped, I wasn't aware it was working as intended now.  I've always gone with an axe in the main hand anyway (and later dual-wield axe) just because, well, just because.  Especially for a dwarf.    I don't cut dexterity out or recommend against it, I just always play as a lethality build because cunning is so useful elsewhere.  

My typical build is every level I put +1 in dex, and then I alternate levels putting +2 in cunning or +1 cunning and +1 of a secondary ability (strength, willpower, con).  Usually by focusing heavily on cunning I can skip the last point in persuasion, although I've never been high enough cunning to skip out on lockpick level 4.

[Last Darkness]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

Thanks for the correction on Dex.  I know they kept saying they were going to fix the dagger/arrow damage modifier but it seemed like patch after patch it kept getting skipped, I wasn't aware it was working as intended now.  I've always gone with an axe in the main hand anyway (and later dual-wield axe) just because, well, just because.  Especially for a dwarf.    I don't cut dexterity out or recommend against it, I just always play as a lethality build because cunning is so useful elsewhere.  

My typical build is every level I put +1 in dex, and then I alternate levels putting +2 in cunning or +1 cunning and +1 of a secondary ability (strength, willpower, con).  Usually by focusing heavily on cunning I can skip the last point in persuasion, although I've never been high enough cunning to skip out on lockpick level 4.

Its all about your playstyle and what attribute benefit that the most.

Im more of a min/max guy myself and favour the extreme damage builds (and have created two popular ones on the forums lol). I blame my Diablo-ish background (Hell yeah I use a pink hello kitty doll as my weapon, it does 1.234 damage more then the Blood Thirst Axe of Destruction, I dont care how it looks.)

Alot of people build their characters as if they are solo-ing the whole game instead of thinking as their entire party as their character. Im seen alot of builds on these forums that are completly pointless if you bring another character who has those same skills into your party.   Build a Party, not just a single character.

Right now im working on a Official Cannon Game for myself.
Male Dalish Rogue "Caim Mahariel" who is a Ranger/Assassin planned spec.
My Morrigan is actualy being built up as a Shapeshifter Character (Practicaly 100% magic)
Alistair is being turned into a Duel Dagger Templar/Reaver. (Almost all Dex)
Sten is being Turned into a Weapon and Shield Warrior (26 Dex/rest Str, looks neat on his big model)
I plan to make Wynne a Spirit Healer/Arcane Warrior etc.

[Time4Tiddy]

I've always liked Alistair as a dual-weapon fighter anyway.

[RosInSF]

Thanks, guys, for your advice! I switched back from Dwarf to Human Noble Rogue (DW daggers, Cunning-based). He's now at level 3, one bubble away from level 4. We're in the Korcari Wilds, just starting the The Grey Wardens' Cache quest. Following your suggestions, my main leveled as follows:

Level 0: Combat Training 1, Poison Making; Dirty Fighting
Level 1: STR 13, DEX 16, CUN 17; Coercion 1, DW Training, Lockpicking 1
Level 2: STR 14, DEX 18; CUN 17; Trap Making 1; Stealth 1
Level 3: STR 14, DEX 18; CUN 20; DW Sweep

Possible leveling to come:

Level 4: STR 15, DEX 20; CUN 20; Coercion 2; Combat Movement

Extra talent after Joining? If so, Lockpicking 2. If not, then Lockpicking 2 instead of Combat Mvt at Level 4.

Level 5: STR 15, DEX 21; CUN 22; Stealth 2 (or Combat Mvt).

I understand that I don't have to invest any additional attribute points into STR since the Circle Tower quest and item STR bonuses will bring me up to STR 20, which, if I understand correctly, is all the STR I need in order to wear the highest tier of light armor available in Origins.

So from Level 5 on I will add 1 or 2 points into DEX and 1 or 2 points into CUN until I reach DEX 30 at Level 12, allowing me to learn Whirlwind. From then on I'll add points only into CUN.

Rough Order of Talents and Skills from Level 6 on:

Below the Belt (6), Flurry (7), Coup de Grace (8); Momentum (9); Deadly Strike (10), Lethality (10 with tome), Lockpicking 3 (11); Whirlwind (12); Stealth 3 (13), Assassin Mark of Death (14), Assassin Exploit Weakness (14 with tome), Stealth 4 (15), Assassin Lacerate (16); Bard Song of Valor (17), Bard Distraction (18), Bard Song of Courage (19), Dual Weapon Finesse? (20), Dual Weapon Expert? (21), Assassin Feast of the Fallen (22).. I'm uncertain about the best order for these after I get Lethality at level 10 (with tome).  Would appreciate any advice.

Since CUN will be at 46 by Level 16, I probably won't need Lockpicking 4 (Lockpicking 3 = 30; CUN 46 = 36. Thus 66 Lockpicking, Trap Detection and Disarming).  I don't really know where I will be between Level 11 (when I get Lockpicking 3 and will have 31 CUN, which = 51 Lock/Trap points) and Level 16 since I've never played beyond Level 10 (and that was 2 and 1/2 years ago as a S&S Warrior, so I've forgotten most everything).  Thus I don't know what difficulty the chests and traps will be at those levels.  Will I be in Castle Redcliffe at Level 11?

Combat Training 2 (6), 3 (8), and 4 (10); Coercion 3 (12);  Stealing 1 (before Denerim).

I plan to have only one rank of Poison Making, one of Trap Making, none in Herbalism. Probably none in Combat Tactics since I will be controlling my main for the most part.  My CUN will be high enough (37 at Level 13) so that I probably won't need Coercion 4 (Coercion 3 = 75; CUN 35 = 25.  Thus 100 Persuasion).  I could put the remaining skill points into Survival, I guess (Levels 16, 18, 20, and 22).

My companions will be Alistair (tank), Morrigan (CC and AoE), and Wynne (healing and buffing). I can probably use two of those companions who won't fight with me but will remain in camp to level up in Poison Making and Trap Making. Perhaps Leliana for Poison and whichever companion I find right after her for Trap Making.  Wynne can do Herbalism, I guess, because of her high Magic score and healing role.

Since I have the Ultimate Edition with all the DLC, I'll be doing all the DLC quests, too -- the Stone Prisoner right after Lothering, I guess.  Or should I do the Circle Tower right after Lothering in order to pick up Wynne?

Any further suggestions?

Modifié par RosInSF, 15 août 2011 - 05:04 .