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[ladyvader]

Gottsein wrote...

I do remember her saying that, but just like Ash and Kaidan seemed to move on, I think it's possible she did too. She was waaaaaay too emotional about Feron..... I hope she's not lying. My Femshep hasn't cheated on her. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw that kind of loophole in ME3 though.

Liara never moved on, she just buried her feelings so she could function. She still has part of Shepard's armor.  It seems that Legion has the other half of it.  She also got Shepard's dog tags from Admiral Hackett. 

I would be surprised if they did that actually. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

ladyvader wrote...

Gottsein wrote...

I do remember her saying that, but just like Ash and Kaidan seemed to move on, I think it's possible she did too. She was waaaaaay too emotional about Feron..... I hope she's not lying. My Femshep hasn't cheated on her. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw that kind of loophole in ME3 though.

Liara never moved on, she just buried her feelings so she could function. She still has part of Shepard's armor.  It seems that Legion has the other half of it. 

Why does this make me think of Liara and Legion having a tug-of-war over Shep's armor...

[Destroy Raiden_]

That would be both entertaining and disturbing.

[ladyvader]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

Gottsein wrote...

I do remember her saying that, but just like Ash and Kaidan seemed to move on, I think it's possible she did too. She was waaaaaay too emotional about Feron..... I hope she's not lying. My Femshep hasn't cheated on her. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw that kind of loophole in ME3 though.

Liara never moved on, she just buried her feelings so she could function. She still has part of Shepard's armor.  It seems that Legion has the other half of it. 

Why does this make me think of Liara and Legion having a tug-of-war over Shep's armor...

LMAO.  I think at that point Liara would win with her biotics.  And she would have the whole set instead of the back half. 

[Han Shot First]

Wereparrot wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I also have issues with Bioware defining Shepard hooking up with someone else in ME2 as 'cheating,' because it isn't cheating by any definition of the term. In order to be unfaithful you have to be in a relationship, and whether by choice or circumstance Shepard was single in Mass Effect 2.

Not neccessarily. If Shepard romanced the VS, then regardless of the current state of the relationship, Shephard owes it to the VS to actually have a decent conversation and assertain where the relationship is at, or if there is one. Considering this, it's dishonourable to begin an affair with anyone else untill you know, and the mere thought that Ashley may have become the ship **** is no excuse to go after some one else. Being faithful to the memory demonstrates faith in the person and in the eventual outcome. Surely it's morally reprehensible to start flirting with other crew members if you and the VS have so many unresolved issues.

The VS and Shep haven't seen each other for two years, and for most of that two year span Shepard was dead. As far as they knew death was final and they'd never be seeing Shepard again. With that in mind, realistically the VS should have moved on to a degree and dated during that two year time frame. In fact we know at least one of them has. Although I always play as a male Shep, I have read on this forum that it is revealed that Kaidan dated some doctor following Shepard's demise.  At any rate, there is no logical reason why either one would run into Shepard two years after his death, with the notion that they were still in a relationship. And from what we see during their reunion, they don't. The VS makes it clear that he/she has moved on. Shepard also couldn't realistically expect that Kaidan or Ashley would be waiting for him or her, when he died and was out of the picture for two years.

Shepard was single on Horizon. Death tends to end relationships.

Now on Horizon there could have been an oppurtunity for either Shepard or the VS to express some interest in picking up where they left off, but neither party does. Instead they bicker and Shepard is more or less told to fvck off. It is fairly clear cut that Shep leaves Horizon single as well.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 juillet 2011 - 05:25 .

[Drone223]

Han Shot First wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I also have issues with Bioware defining Shepard hooking up with someone else in ME2 as 'cheating,' because it isn't cheating by any definition of the term. In order to be unfaithful you have to be in a relationship, and whether by choice or circumstance Shepard was single in Mass Effect 2.

Not neccessarily. If Shepard romanced the VS, then regardless of the current state of the relationship, Shephard owes it to the VS to actually have a decent conversation and assertain where the relationship is at, or if there is one. Considering this, it's dishonourable to begin an affair with anyone else untill you know, and the mere thought that Ashley may have become the ship **** is no excuse to go after some one else. Being faithful to the memory demonstrates faith in the person and in the eventual outcome. Surely it's morally reprehensible to start flirting with other crew members if you and the VS have so many unresolved issues.

The VS and Shep haven't seen each other for two years, and for most of that two year span Shepard was dead. As far as they knew death was final and they'd never be seeing Shepard again. With that in mind, realistically the VS should have moved on to a degree and dated during that two year time frame. In fact we know at least one of them has. Although I always play as a male Shep, I have read on this forum that it is revealed that Kaidan dated some doctor following Shepard's demise.  At any rate, there is no logical reason why either one would run into Shepard two years after his death, with the notion that they were still in a relationship. And from what we see during their reunion, they don't. The VS makes it clear that he/she has moved on. Shepard also couldn't realistically expect that Kaidan or Ashley would be waiting for him or her, when he died and was out of the picture for two years.

Shepard was single on Horizon. Death tends to end relationships.

Now on Horizon there could have been an oppurtunity for either Shepard or the VS to express some interest in picking up where they left off, but neither party does. Instead they bicker and Shepard is more or less told to fvck off. It is fairly clear cut that Shep leaves Horizon single as well.

If you romanced Ashley and read her letter it clearly stats that she morened shepard for a whole year before coping with shepards loss, That is enough to prove that she still has extremely strong feelings for Shepard her reaction on Horizon was just bad writing 

Modifié par Drone223, 28 juillet 2011 - 10:04 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

Gottsein wrote...

I do remember her saying that, but just like Ash and Kaidan seemed to move on, I think it's possible she did too. She was waaaaaay too emotional about Feron..... I hope she's not lying. My Femshep hasn't cheated on her. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw that kind of loophole in ME3 though.

Liara never moved on, she just buried her feelings so she could function. She still has part of Shepard's armor.  It seems that Legion has the other half of it. 

Why does this make me think of Liara and Legion having a tug-of-war over Shep's armor...

That thought is both highly adorable and disturbing.

[DCYNIGR8]

I agree that it's not cheating. Shepard dies and is gone for two years, ample time for the VS or Liara (though i don't really think she does) to move on. There was no reason for anyone other than Liara to believe that Shepard would come back and even when he/she does, things have changed. Liara has changed immensely in the time between ME and ME2. She's grown (in a way), she was never going to be able to go back to her life before as a naive, Prothean expert going form dig-site to dig-site trying to unearth secrets of the Prothean race after her journey with Shepard, romance or not.

Once Shepard comes back she's so involved in fixing mistakes she made and paying back debts she owes after her journey to save Shepard, that she can't just abandon her post to run off with him/her and pick up where they left off. With LotSB, the issue of 'cheating' pretty much resolves itself before ME3, Shepard explains his/her feelings, whatever choice has been made, and Liara seems to accept it either way. Weather she leaves it alone for the duration of ME3 remains to be seen, I can see her maybe trying to win Shepard back and maybe some kind of banter between her and the existing LI, but I don't see her harboring any resentment towards Shepard and think it would be pretty uncharacteristic of her to do so.

In regards to the VS, I understand the issues they raise on Horizon. Even with the reports of Shepard being back, they had no reason to believe they were true. I'm pretty sure resurrection isn't something that happens often, even if the ME universe is set in the future. The shock of seeing Shepard back and with Cerberus, makes what Ash/Kaidan said totally understandable.

For those saying that Tali and Garrus have no problem with following Shepard, they didn't have the relationship with Shepard in ME that the VS did and even Tali doesn't join Shepard initially as she is on a mission for the Migrant Fleet, a mission she can't just turn her back on "Not even for you" in her own words, so how is that any different to the VS being on a mission for the Alliance? Granted she joins eventually, but whose to say there aren't other things involved with the mission the VS is on that means even if they wanted to, they couldn't join. They have also been promoted within the Alliance (which must mean a lot to Ash especially) bringing more responsibility and they could also have begun the process to become a Spectre, even more reason they are unable to join at that time.

The VS can't die in ME2 as they have to be in ME3 and whilst the situation on Horizon is not ideal and the e-mail can leave things rather open for interpretation, it's up to the individual Shepard as to how they interpreted the situation and make a decision to either move on or try and survive the Suicide Mission to smooth things over later, which is what makes these games so great. My canon MaleShep is hoping to do just that with Ash in ME3, though I also have a Renegade Shepard who romanced Liara in ME, rekindled that in LotSB before the Suicide Mission, only to also romance Miranda as well. THAT is cheating and is hopefully addressed in ME3. My canon FemShep romanced Kaidan in ME but after Horizon felt a betrayed and upset that he was more loyal to the Alliance than he was to her, his CO and partner through the events of ME, knowing full well the danger the Reapers represent but still turning his back on her, and consequently moved on (not cheated) with Thane in ME2.

My hope is that the 'reward' for staying faithful is just brownie points with the LI you stay 'faithful' to, making it easier to try and pick up the romance again in ME3. There should be no 'consequence' for Shepard moving on with another LI, though I'd like some witty banter between LI's.

Sorry if this post is a bit long but wanted to chime in with my thoughts.

Modifié par DCYNIGR8, 28 juillet 2011 - 02:12 .

[Fata Morgana]

To put it in perspective for the delusional folks who still say, "it's cheating!"

Shepard has been dead for two years. Shepard's relationship with the VS was maybe about 6 weeks in duration. Shepard has spent more time dead than with the VS.

I'm sorry, the people who are saying that 'unresolved feelings' means that the realtionship still exists are insane. No, that's harsh... not insane, just probably never dated before.

[Han Shot First]

If you romanced Ashley and read her letter it clearly stats that she morened shepard for a whole year before coping with shepards loss, That is enough to prove that she still has extremely strong feelings for Shepard her reaction on Horizon was just bad writing

'Moving on' after a death doesn't mean you no longer care about the person or have forgotten about them. It just means you've come to terms with your grief and are dealing with it in a healthy way rather than letting it prevent you from living your life.

Ashley may still have feelings for Shepard but that doesn't mean they are in a relationship. It has been two years and Ashley tells Shepard she's moved on. The chance to pick up where they left off was on Horizon, and that meeting doesn't go well.

If Shepard ends up seeing someone else after Horizon it is not cheating, regardless of what Bioware calls it. That isn't to say that Ashley won't react with jealousy, because people are often jealous and irrational creatures. But she was no longer in a relationship with Shepard.

[Wereparrot]

Han Shot First wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I also have issues with Bioware defining Shepard hooking up with someone else in ME2 as 'cheating,' because it isn't cheating by any definition of the term. In order to be unfaithful you have to be in a relationship, and whether by choice or circumstance Shepard was single in Mass Effect 2.

Not neccessarily. If Shepard romanced the VS, then regardless of the current state of the relationship, Shephard owes it to the VS to actually have a decent conversation and assertain where the relationship is at, or if there is one. Considering this, it's dishonourable to begin an affair with anyone else untill you know, and the mere thought that Ashley may have become the ship **** is no excuse to go after some one else. Being faithful to the memory demonstrates faith in the person and in the eventual outcome. Surely it's morally reprehensible to start flirting with other crew members if you and the VS have so many unresolved issues.

The VS and Shep haven't seen each other for two years, and for most of that two year span Shepard was dead. As far as they knew death was final and they'd never be seeing Shepard again. With that in mind, realistically the VS should have moved on to a degree and dated during that two year time frame. In fact we know at least one of them has. Although I always play as a male Shep, I have read on this forum that it is revealed that Kaidan dated some doctor following Shepard's demise.  At any rate, there is no logical reason why either one would run into Shepard two years after his death, with the notion that they were still in a relationship. And from what we see during their reunion, they don't. The VS makes it clear that he/she has moved on. Shepard also couldn't realistically expect that Kaidan or Ashley would be waiting for him or her, when he died and was out of the picture for two years.

Shepard was single on Horizon. Death tends to end relationships.

Now on Horizon there could have been an oppurtunity for either Shepard or the VS to express some interest in picking up where they left off, but neither party does. Instead they bicker and Shepard is more or less told to fvck off. It is fairly clear cut that Shep leaves Horizon single as well.

Yeah...I really don't care if there is a relationship at this point or not. It's completely irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. I just think that it's disrespectful and arrogant to assume that because you've been dead for two years it gives you leave to romance others, because whatever you may say about the VS's attitude on Horizon, the letter proves that there are still issues that need to be sorted out, whether you intend to get back with them or not. Shepard owes the VS some answers, and Horizon is not the time or place for those answers, so I don't know why people expect a reunion at that point.

[efrgfhnm_]

I agree, if Ashley does attempt to start an argument about this, there should be an option to just walk off, there is no justifiable argument she can make.. I would agree with this in the Liara situation as well, but this has already been sorted out in ME2, and Shepard does argue his case well in that instance

[Wereparrot]

Fata Morgana wrote...

To put it in perspective for the delusional folks who still say, "it's cheating!"

It's about respect.

[Han Shot First]

Yeah...I really don't care if there is a relationship at this point or not. It's completely irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. I just think that it's disrespectful and arrogant to assume that because you've been dead for two years it gives you leave to romance others, because whatever you may say about the VS's attitude on Horizon, the letter proves that there are still issues that need to be sorted out, whether you intend to get back with them or not. Shepard owes the VS some answers, and Horizon is not the time or place for those answers, so I don't know why people expect a reunion at that point

Shepard does have 'leave' to see someone else. He's single, and it is likely Ashley has dated a person or two over those two years. They may still have feelings for one another but they aren't in a relationship.

The issue is whether or not it is 'cheating' for Shepard to date someone else in ME2, and it isn't by any definition of the term.

[Wereparrot]

Han Shot First wrote...

Yeah...I really don't care if there is a relationship at this point or not. It's completely irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. I just think that it's disrespectful and arrogant to assume that because you've been dead for two years it gives you leave to romance others, because whatever you may say about the VS's attitude on Horizon, the letter proves that there are still issues that need to be sorted out, whether you intend to get back with them or not. Shepard owes the VS some answers, and Horizon is not the time or place for those answers, so I don't know why people expect a reunion at that point

Shepard does have 'leave' to see someone else. He's single, and it is likely Ashley has dated a person or two over those two years. They may still have feelings for one another but they aren't in a relationship.

The issue is whether or not it is 'cheating' for Shepard to date someone else in ME2, and it isn't by any definition of the term.

No it doesn't, and 'just because Ashley dated someone' is absolutely no excuse for lack of respect. Being single doesn't neccessarily mean available. Untill Shepard has had a reasonable disscussion with Ashley and tied up loose ends, Shepard should respect what they had and where it might still lead to; and if this is the proper way to go about it then Shepard by default does not have leave to pursue anyone else.

'Cheating' may well be the wrong term for it, but it definitely is disrespectful and arrogant.

[Fata Morgana]

So I guess it's also disrespectful and arrogant of the VS to have dated anyone while Shep was dead?

[Fata Morgana]

To be perfectly frank, the only one in this scenario that could feel 'cheated on' would be Shepard her/him self. It's Shepard that hasn't been given two years to come to terms with not having the VS around, it's Shepard to whom this is a sudden and abrupt shock. Yes, the VS still has feelings for Shepard, that's only natural; but for them the relationship ended two years ago. They are obviously willing to restart it, but they know even better than Shepard does that the relationship ended long ago.

Shepard, on the other hand, is going to be conflicted and have problems ending it in their own mind; but, I think the kick in the face at Horizon does a lot to get her/his head on straight.

[Wereparrot]

Fata Morgana wrote...

So I guess it's also disrespectful and arrogant of the VS to have dated anyone while Shep was dead?

That's different, because how were they to know that Shepard would come back? But he did, so it's up to him to show the respect. And the possibility that the VS dated people while Shepard was dead is no excuse, because again, Shepard was dead, and people don't usually come back from the dead. So that two years is nothing to Shepard, because time means nothing to the dead.

[Wereparrot]

Fata Morgana wrote...

Shepard, on the other hand, is going to be conflicted and have problems ending it in their own mind; but, I think the kick in the face at Horizon does a lot to get her/his head on straight.

It's a kick in the teeth, but it's also to be expected, and is certainly not the right time or place to start again. It's naiive not to expect the VS to be angry.

[Han Shot First]

No it doesn't, and 'just because Ashley dated someone' is absolutely no excuse for lack of respect. Being single doesn't neccessarily mean available. Untill Shepard has had a reasonable disscussion with Ashley and tied up loose ends, Shepard should respect what they had and where it might still lead to; and if this is the proper way to go about it then Shepard by default does not have leave to pursue anyone else.

'Cheating' may well be the wrong term for it, but it definitely is disrespectful and arrogant

You are either in a relationship or you aren't, and there isn't any grey area between the two. As such I don't see how Shepard is being disrespectful by seeing someone else, when he was completely single at the time.

Whether or not Shepard and Ashley had a chance to really vent their feelings seems irrelevant to me. 

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 juillet 2011 - 06:36 .

[Fata Morgana]

Wereparrot wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

So I guess it's also disrespectful and arrogant of the VS to have dated anyone while Shep was dead?

That's different, because how were they to know that Shepard would come back? But he did, so it's up to him to show the respect.

Huh?

The only person's feelings here that need to be 'respected' are Shepard's, because only Shepard is still clinging to the relationship.  The VS doesn't have a relationship with Shep anymore, so there's nothing for Shep to 'respect' there.

Let's take it out of Mass Effect for a moment, since the sci-fi/fantasy aspect of the story is may be throwing you off. Have you seen the movie Cast Away?  At the end of the movie, the main charcter, played by Tom Hanks, goes back to his former fiance, and she is married. At that point, does he need to specify, "Just so you know, we aren't engaged anymore."? When you think about it in those terms, you realize the ridiculousness of it. For it's the exact opposite - Tom Hanks' character has to be informed himself that the relationship ended because she has known for years that there is no relationship anymore.  Of course both sides still had feelings for each other, and there was a lovely scene of remebrance and closure, which is nice. But even if that scene had not happened, Tom Hanks' character would have been within his rights to go out and date someone else, without first explaining to Helen Hunt that he was going to do so.

[Han Shot First]

Good post Fate.

I think it is also important to note that Shepard is heading towards a mission where it is likely he will be killed. As far he knows at the time the trip through the Omega Relay is likely to be one way. With that in mind, what does he owe the Virmire Survivor? Why should he wait around for someone who he isn't in a relationship with, and who gave him the cold shoulder during their reunion, particularly when the chances are good he won't be seeing the VS again.

Shepard doesn't have time to say, "Let's talk about this when I get back." He isn't expecting to come back.

With that in mind Shepard moving on after Horizon and seeing someone else can hardly be considered disrespectful. I think most people would do the same in his shoes. If you are facing imminent death, who wouldn't live for the moment and seek comfort in someone else's arms? Being single, it also isn't cheating.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .

[Wereparrot]

Fata Morgana wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

So I guess it's also disrespectful and arrogant of the VS to have dated anyone while Shep was dead?

That's different, because how were they to know that Shepard would come back? But he did, so it's up to him to show the respect.

Huh?

The only person's feelings here that need to be 'respected' are Shepard's, because only Shepard is still clinging to the relationship.  The VS doesn't have a relationship with Shep anymore, so there's nothing for Shep to 'respect' there.

 

How about the VS's right to answers? So Shephard's been dead, come back and bumped into the VS, who is shocked and angry to see Shepard and is too much so of either to ask for answers then, so the VS should reasonably expect them next time they meet, and it's going to be doubly awkward if you've run off with someone else in the mean time. Especially since the VS has already given half an explanation to their own conduct.

[Fata Morgana]

Well of course the VS deserves some explanations... just as Shep deserves explanations for why VS didn't have more trust in Shep. But those explanations have no impact on whether or not Shep or VS are dating other people between Horizon and when they meet again in ME3. Absolutely none.

[Wereparrot]

Han Shot First wrote...

No it doesn't, and 'just because Ashley dated someone' is absolutely no excuse for lack of respect. Being single doesn't neccessarily mean available. Untill Shepard has had a reasonable disscussion with Ashley and tied up loose ends, Shepard should respect what they had and where it might still lead to; and if this is the proper way to go about it then Shepard by default does not have leave to pursue anyone else.

'Cheating' may well be the wrong term for it, but it definitely is disrespectful and arrogant

You are either in a relationship or you aren't, and there isn't any grey area between the two.

So being dead, coming back and what transpired between them at Horizon doesn't count?