229 réponses à ce sujet

[Fata Morgana]

I just remembered something regarding the VS in the game that might help.

After Horizon, you can go talk to Joker about it. You have three options of what to say when he says, "It was good to see Kaidan/Ashley":

1) "It went well." - to which Joker replies that he's glad you guys are still friends and that romancing co-workers is never a good idea. Point one for implying that Shep & VS are "just friends" and not in a relationship.
2) "We're still friends... barely" - Self explanatory point two for the "just friends" relationship at this point and time.
3) "It went badly" - Shep specifically states here that Kaidan is something she has lost. (or Ashley his something he has lost). No ambiguity here, there is no relationship.

This is further supported by the talk with Kelly, where even if you select "I miss him", she replies with something to the effect of "Saying goodbye is never easy."

In short, the game pretty much hits you over the head with the fact that you and the VS are not in a relationship. Just in case you're a little slow on the uptake.

[Nozybidaj]

BW really blew a big opportunity in ME2. This whole debate would have been a lot more interesting if they had actually included the LI's from ME1 in the game like they should have been from the start so Shep could have actually been in a relationship to have to make the decision to cheat or not.

I don't know exactly how the folks at BW define a relationship but most real world definitions require more than 1 person and a picture on a desk.

[Fata Morgana]

Heh, isn't that like saying that the whole thing with people dying at the Collector base would have been solved if there were no collector base?

The VS rejecting Shepard and being unwilling to listen is part of the planned narrative. It's actually a narrative thread I like (unlike the majority, apparently). It created real emotions within the player, and punctuated the theme of the Mass Effect 2 story which was one of heroism in the midst of rejection and isolation.

In short, I liked it.

[Nozybidaj]

Fata Morgana wrote...

Heh, isn't that like saying that the whole thing with people dying at the Collector base would have been solved if there were no collector base?

Huh?  Not sure what you are tying to gt at here....

The VS rejecting Shepard and being unwilling to listen is part of the planned narrative. It's actually a narrative thread I like (unlike the majority, apparently). It created real emotions within the player, and punctuated the theme of the Mass Effect 2 story which was one of heroism in the midst of rejection and isolation.

In short, I liked it.

/shrug  I just kinda rolled my eyes at the whole thing like I did most of the narrative in ME2.  If you liked it, more power to you.

[Fata Morgana]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

Heh, isn't that like saying that the whole thing with people dying at the Collector base would have been solved if there were no collector base?

Huh?  Not sure what you are tying to gt at here...

You: "If they had written the story differently, it would be different."
Me: "True, but meaningless"

[Nozybidaj]

Fata Morgana wrote...
You: "If they had written the story differently, it would be different."
Me: "True, but meaningless"

More like "if they had written the story differently, it would have had impact". 

In ME2 there is no real decision to make or framing of a relationship to make that decision within.  They basically erased the ME1 relationship and that person from the narrative to make it a non-decision, then they want to backdoor you in ME3 with "consequences"?  Consequences for what?

They could have not had the VS or Liara in ME2 at all, not even a mere mention of them, and it wouldn't have changed a thing.  The choice of romancing someone in ME2 is meaningless with regards to trying to set the stage for "consequences".  That is where they blew it.  If they had continued the ME1 relationships then introduced truly interesting characters that wanted to compete for your romantic interests, then you would have had a real decision to make.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 29 juillet 2011 - 05:41 .

[Fata Morgana]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...
You: "If they had written the story differently, it would be different."
Me: "True, but meaningless"

More like "if they had written the story differently, it would have had impact". 

In ME2 there is no real decision to make or framing of a relationship to make that decision within.  They basically erased the ME1 relationship and that person from the narrative to make it a non-decision, then they want to backdoor you in ME3 with "consequences"?  Consequences for what?

They could have not had the VS or Liara in ME2 at all, not even a mere mention of them, and it wouldn't have changed a thing.  The choice of romancing someone in ME2 is meaningless with regards to trying to set the stage for "consequences".  That is where they blew it.  If they had continued the ME1 relationships then introduced truly interesting characters that wanted to compete for your romantic interests, then you would have had a real decision to make.

But then you play Liara in Lair of the Shadow Broker, and her story, and her reasons for acting the way she did, become much richer. If you romanced her, you even get to start that again in SB.

Actually, I think Lair of the Shadow Broker is a good example of Bioware knowing exactly what they're doing with the story. It's why I'm not worried about how they're going to handle things in 3, frankly.

[MegaBadExample]

Fata Morgana wrote...

I just remembered something regarding the VS in the game that might help.

After Horizon, you can go talk to Joker about it. You have three options of what to say when he says, "It was good to see Kaidan/Ashley":

1) "It went well." - to which Joker replies that he's glad you guys are still friends and that romancing co-workers is never a good idea. Point one for implying that Shep & VS are "just friends" and not in a relationship.
2) "We're still friends... barely" - Self explanatory point two for the "just friends" relationship at this point and time.
3) "It went badly" - Shep specifically states here that Kaidan is something she has lost. (or Ashley his something he has lost). No ambiguity here, there is no relationship.

This is further supported by the talk with Kelly, where even if you select "I miss him", she replies with something to the effect of "Saying goodbye is never easy."

In short, the game pretty much hits you over the head with the fact that you and the VS are not in a relationship. Just in case you're a little slow on the uptake.

Good post.
During ME2 there is no relationship, but the VS still has feelings for Shep.
Meh... I don't care what they called it...I just hope those of us that remained faithful to the VS get some closure this time around.

[Squidbreath]

Meh. Marriages are till the death. Non-engaged relationships are worth even less.

Shep died.

[darthnick427]

yeah i would definitely call it moving on. What's nice with Liara is she even treats it as such in LotSB if want to date someone else and is cool with it.

[StaceysChain]

My Shepard didn't cheat on Liara, because she broke up with her during LotSB then got with Garrus afterwards.

[LOLandStuff]

For someone who's been dead for 2 years and it's been only like 2 weeks for him/her, Shepard sure moved on pretty quick. It's like he/she never had any kind of emotional attachment to the VS to brush it off so easily.

[Dariustwinblade]

Shep is an emotionless SoB. People should realize that already.

[MegaTommy]

My Shep didn't cheat on Ash. We've met on Horizon, she called him a traitor, then left without a thanks, because it's not like he saved her and did whatever he could to save the others.
So yeah, when TIM and Kelly asked me about her, i told them that me and Ash are done. Then, after a while Tali came along and my Shep hooked up with her.

If Ash will have a problem with any of that in ME3, i'll be upset.

[Razored1313]

what should have been done is what LOTSB did, give us the option to officially break up with our ME1 LI instead of forcing us to continue on "or else"
as far as im concerned my shep didn't cheat, ash choosing the alliance over him ended things and if i had the option she would have known about it right then and there.
if "cheating" means i cant continue with miranda i will find out whatever it takes in game to kill ashley and do so with a creepy smile on my face

[jeweledleah]

LOLandStuff wrote...

For someone who's been dead for 2 years and it's been only like 2 weeks for him/her, Shepard sure moved on pretty quick. It's like he/she never had any kind of emotional attachment to the VS to brush it off so easily.

for a lot of people, sadly it was all about "banging whoever was available at the time"  so yeah, no emotional attachement to speak of.  and since "its only a game"  who cares if the characters during courtship were written to exibit genuine feelings.  meh, they'll get over it.  don't fall in line?  bye bye.  /meh

[in2seconds]

Ashley acted like a calm b*tch when I met her in Horizon. That was her call to finish it. Besides, I've read her e-mail late, and shep is already using the moves, so my shep will probably be staying with Miranda.

[Fata Morgana]

LOLandStuff wrote...

For someone who's been dead for 2 years and it's been only like 2 weeks for him/her, Shepard sure moved on pretty quick. It's like he/she never had any kind of emotional attachment to the VS to brush it off so easily.

True, but at the same time, how much time was really spent with the LI in ME1?  A month at most?  And only one intimate act together?  I don't know about any of the other LIs, but Kaidan never even kisses Shepard until the night before Ilos - and he specifically says that this intimacy can't change anything, and that they'll go back to being Commander and Lt as soon as this one moment of intimacy is over. Even Kaidan's letter backs this up - that they only really had that night, and nothing else after it. So if Shepard moves on after the rejection at Horizon, I can kind of understand it.  Moving on with Garrus (or Tali if you're a dude) I can understand especially, because that is someone Shepard knew for at least as long as the VS, but who stuck by Shepard when the VS wouldn't. 

[TheShadowWolf911]

Fata Morgana wrote...

LOLandStuff wrote...

For someone who's been dead for 2 years and it's been only like 2 weeks for him/her, Shepard sure moved on pretty quick. It's like he/she never had any kind of emotional attachment to the VS to brush it off so easily.

True, but at the same time, how much time was really spent with the LI in ME1?  A month at most?  And only one intimate act together?  I don't know about any of the other LIs, but Kaidan never even kisses Shepard until the night before Ilos - and he specifically says that this intimacy can't change anything, and that they'll go back to being Commander and Lt as soon as this one moment of intimacy is over. Even Kaidan's letter backs this up - that they only really had that night, and nothing else after it. So if Shepard moves on after the rejection at Horizon, I can kind of understand it.  Moving on with Garrus (or Tali if you're a dude) I can understand especially, because that is someone Shepard knew for at least as long as the VS, but who stuck by Shepard when the VS wouldn't. 

indeed

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I viewed that VS photo on the desk as something like a emotional rock to anchor Shep. Somewhat to hold on to from the past, that not everything has changed / lost. But after Horizon, I wished there is an option / cutscene of Shep looking at the photo (not necessarily have to be on that trip to the Omega 4 relay), to ponder the past and given the choice of keeping / putting it away without having to romance anyone at all. This is something which I feel BW missed / overlooked (lousy writing!). Does it have to be ROMANCE  to drop VS? I would rather have Shep decide not to pursue any relationship at all and just concentrate on the huge problem at hand. Then, in ME3, it's up to the VS to change Shep's mind (why does it have to be Shep doing all the damn chasing?)

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 25 août 2011 - 05:35 .

[TheShadowWolf911]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

I viewed that VS photo on the desk as something like a emotional rock to anchor Shep. Somewhat to hold on to from the past, that not everything has changed / lost. But after Horizon, I wished there is an option / cutscene of Shep looking at the photo (not necessarily have to be on that trip to the Omega 4 relay), to ponder the past and given the choice of keeping / putting it away without having to romance anyone at all. This is something which I feel BW missed / overlooked (lousy writing!). Does it have to be ROMANCE  to drop VS? I would rather have Shep decide not to pursue any relationship at all and just concentrate on the huge problem at hand. Then, in ME3, it's up to the VS to change Shep's mind (why does it have to be Shep doing all the damn chasing? Have the writers heard of ping pong? Clapping with 2 hands?).

this

why should i face a consequence for a romance i ACCIDENTLY got into?

[swdemonslayer]

First of all, Death do us part...For two years, Ashley or Kaidan didn't know she was alive. Second the choice was I will miss you, or goodbye..I would say that if you choice I will miss you, the romance isn't over, she was pissed and I really adored her email to Shepard, but what's really big is The Director said himself there would be a reward if you were faithful throughout ME2 and would bring great things in Mass Effect 3. The truth, I would just play the game again and win again to bring imported character to ME3...But since I have PS3, I would choose the option keep focused if I wanted to romance someone else. The game is short enough to do so.

[Silver77nz]

I don't think it's cheating. What happened on Horizion, yea ok maybe they think you haven't been dead after all and you never contacted them. I see why they would be hurt. However, Kaidan writes a e-mail and states he went out with a Dr. for some drinks. The relationship wasn't serious but that wouldn't stop him from sleeping with her. Do we know what they have done in 2 yrs? Also the end of the e-mail...when things calm down a little...maybe..idk! That doesn't tell me he wants to be with me. It sounds more like I don't know if I want to date you again. I don't know what I want.
Now if you started a relationship with your ME2 LI and then don't end it and sleep with the VS....that is cheating.
Though what scares me the most is what if we will have another Virmire but with our LI's. We have to let one die. Bioware said the decision comes at the worst time. I hope to God I won't have to make that kind of choice.

[Ruathrar]

When Shepard died it ended:

1. Any relationships - relationship was never rekindled - not cheating.
2. Status as a soldier - never reinstated.
3. Status as a Spectre - reinstated - with full knowledge of his assistance to a Cerberus investigation.

Modifié par Ruathrar, 25 août 2011 - 02:46 .