175 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ReubenLiew wrote...

So no, I don't think I am wrong in thinking that he CAN in fact find her hot. Nothing in game tells me that he would otherwise think of her otherwise. He might intensely dislike her from a personality stand point, but as far as I can tell with his character that seems to be it.

He says she looks like a barbarian, and that doesn't usually mean attractive, though some men find that look hot. From what we know of Alistair, I'd say he isn't fond of it, but that's a guess. If all you were arguing is that he "can" find her attractive, then this whole thing is completely pointless. Of course he "can" or "might" find her attractive.

You're not arguing that he "can" find her attractive. You were arguing that, as a man, he would, and he would enjoy sex with her because he's a man and she's attractive.

And in the cutscene I saw he was practically grinning from ear to ear, not cringing. That doesn't fit if you ask me.


And for the record, I think you took this entire topic way too seriously.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 21 novembre 2009 - 05:34 .

[ReubenLiew]

He was grinning? I don't think so, I've check all the videos and he wasn't grinning. Maybe an animation bug on yours?



Well, Arnold looks like a barbarian, doesn't mean women didn't find him hot as Conan Besides it could only mean that he finds her demeanor and her dressing barbaric, nothing insofar as how he finds her physically.



Actually I still stand by the point that he WOULD. But that's for you to disagree with me, I guess. I think he can easily find her attractive, quite a lot of other people in the world does, and unless Alistair has some weird... tastes in women I'd wager he'd find her very attractive, if a domineering, hateful witch. You can always disagree with me on that regard, thats simply how I think that is.



Maybe I took it a mite too seriously, as I said I do hate so much on people who want animation changes on things that are fine on their own to suit their personal taste. Animators animate to suit as wide a variety to tastes as possible and try not to cater to specific crowds. It's just a pet hate of mine, forgive me. I have terrible memories of stupid clients and their stupid requests for stupid things... ARGH.



... Sorry.

[faerinor]

PinkShira wrote...

Besides my obvious dislike of having my Alistair have sex with Morrigan, I think the cut scene was totally wrong for him.

1) He hates her.  He's not going to be lying there like they have him.  I envision him on the bed with his legs pulled towards him.

2)  As she approaches him, his face should cringe and maybe even have him close him eyes.

3) The music should not be the same music that I get when I make love to him.  She is not "loving" him.  It's way too tender for what is actually going on.

I understand the scene is the same no matter what character beds her, but I think should have taken the time to make a different one for Alistair.  Even if you are a male and send him to her, he would still not like it.  And I know she says to him, you will not hate this as much as you think.  He's not going to be so relaxed for something he really doesn't want.

I can't say I read the whole thread.... but only  a simple answer is required.  ALMOST any man out there who is 'forced' to bed a gorgeous woman... no matter how evil she is... if he's already decided to go through with the deed, then he is going to enjoy it.

[Sheylan]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Well I'm only putting down the suggestion of changing his animation.
I work in animation, so trust me, having people say you should change so-and-so animation willy nilly is really, really, off putting for me. You have no idea how much time or how much money can be involved especially if they're using motion capture. An entire day's session can go as high as 1000 dollars if I remember correctly.
If you wanted to change the song, well, that also costs money, as then they'd need a composer to make that one song for that one character.
It's not really as easy you make it out to be. But it is your wish so whatever floats your boat, but asking a man not to like sex with a hot woman (and seriously it's not that hard to tell she's quite good looking, irregardless of how much he may not like her, and let's not pull you may like her or whatever because if we stop kidding ourselves we KNOW she's pretty, the designers made her that way) is just... you know, silly.
You can always fanfiction it to soothe your aches I guess.

Just want to point out that an 8 hour mo-cap session would be a hell of a lot more than $1,000.... probably 30 or 40 times that.... at least. (Consider that you have to pay, at minimum, a dozen mixed technicians, artists and specialists for the entire time, and probably are renting the equipment and studio. I imagine very few devolopement studios have their own, though EA might provide one).

[ReubenLiew]

Thanks for the clarification At least with the price of Mo-Cap I know I'll still have a job being a traditional 3d animator 30k though, thats some crazy crap, and I'd though 1k was the safe margin.

[Malkut]

PinkShira wrote...

You do not know my Alistair at all!  He may be a man, but he HATES her.

Kinky hate sex for the win!

[Ex-Paladin]

I'll stand out and agree that Alistair may end up agreeing with the ritual, but it doesn't mean he's enjoying it. Sure, the pleasure feels good and all, but the fact that it's Morrigan and not his PC lover...not so much enjoyment there.

And the fact it is being said that Alistair would of course enjoy it because Morrigan is sooooo hot is down right ridiculous. To most men, she is hot, but just because you think so doesn't down right mean that Alistair would think so.

That's just my two cents I thought needed to be said.

[faerinor]

Malkut wrote...

PinkShira wrote...

You do not know my Alistair at all!  He may be a man, but he HATES her.

Kinky hate sex for the win!

This.  You gotta understand he's just been put in the ULTIMATE situation:  He gets to LOVE whoever he currently loves (the Player Character potentially), he is going to "bang" a hot chick (I say BANG and not "make love" as that may be a distinction to many men which many women do not understand), he is going to save the life of one of his closest friends by preventing a Grey Warden sacrifice (Potentially his true love even), AND he gets to be the one who goes down in history as SLAYING the archdemon.  Holy crap that's a good 24-hours in my eyes.  My only disaapointment is that nothing in life can seemingly top that so it's all downhill from there.

[seraphymon]

Honestly i agree that there shoulda been a different scene. And that the majorit yof men may and do find morrigan attractive. To another should physically. is a joke based on the way he says things. What he says can be interpreted differently of course, but its wrong to assume things.



To change a scene i feel is importance. Just like with anything else. I feel when u make a game do it right, and not make shortcuts like making the same scenes just with different characters, or like with morrigan wearing no bra, yet in the sex scens she does. Lack of consistency and being lazy doesnt do a game justice either. A game that took this long to make should have these types of things. People may have there specific gripes, but when theres a lack of consistency that throws out logic, then thats just going too far.

[faerinor]

Ex-Paladin wrote...

I'll stand out and agree that Alistair may end up agreeing with the ritual, but it doesn't mean he's enjoying it. Sure, the pleasure feels good and all, but the fact that it's Morrigan and not his PC lover...not so much enjoyment there.

And the fact it is being said that Alistair would of course enjoy it because Morrigan is sooooo hot is down right ridiculous. To most men, she is hot, but just because you think so doesn't down right mean that Alistair would think so.

That's just my two cents I thought needed to be said.

I am not discounting anybody's opinion on this discussion and I don't want an actual response to this but this would be one of those threads that would be truly interesting to see the sexes of those who posted and how they have posted.  Obviously, it would need to be a much larger sample set of responders too, but it would be truly intriguing statistically.

[ReubenLiew]

Ex-Paladin wrote...

I'll stand out and agree that Alistair may end up agreeing with the ritual, but it doesn't mean he's enjoying it. Sure, the pleasure feels good and all, but the fact that it's Morrigan and not his PC lover...not so much enjoyment there.

And the fact it is being said that Alistair would of course enjoy it because Morrigan is sooooo hot is down right ridiculous. To most men, she is hot, but just because you think so doesn't down right mean that Alistair would think so.

That's just my two cents I thought needed to be said.

If the pleasure feels good, how is he not enjoying it? I'm sorry, thats what I don't quite get. I know he's not like INTO it, and maybe he feels very awkward, but he gets pleasure from it, and therefore enjoys the sex, but maybe not the experience of it before and after.
So are men and women's definition of enjoyment totally different?

[Eclesis]

But if you change the scene for Alistair, wouldn't you have to change the scene for the PC too? Not every PC is going to find Morrigan attractive, and in fact may be in a romance with someone else. Even Loghain I'm not sure you could make an argument that he'd enjoy it either. Why just Alistair?



For what it's worth I've only seen the male PC version (not romancing Morrigan) and he looked suitably terrified. Any further carrying-on would've been weird because it's something you (or Loghain or Alistair) has agreed to do to save your own life, it's not like she ambushes them out of nowhere.

[ReubenLiew]

seraphymon wrote...

Honestly i agree that there shoulda been a different scene. And that the majorit yof men may and do find morrigan attractive. To another should physically. is a joke based on the way he says things. What he says can be interpreted differently of course, but its wrong to assume things.

To change a scene i feel is importance. Just like with anything else. I feel when u make a game do it right, and not make shortcuts like making the same scenes just with different characters, or like with morrigan wearing no bra, yet in the sex scens she does. Lack of consistency and being lazy doesnt do a game justice either. A game that took this long to make should have these types of things. People may have there specific gripes, but when theres a lack of consistency that throws out logic, then thats just going too far.

All games are made of shortcuts. If they didn't make shortcuts this game would've taken even longer and costed even more money. It's galling to see people accusing developers of being lazy when they themselves have no idea how much effort goes into the thing. The game that takes this long comes out with what is presented, if you expected more it will take even longer, or will cost a lot more money, or will be less than what you'd think it is. You can't have the entire of the above, that's just downright absurd.

[faerinor]

seraphymon wrote...

Honestly i agree that there shoulda been a different scene. And that the majorit yof men may and do find morrigan attractive. To another should physically. is a joke based on the way he says things. What he says can be interpreted differently of course, but its wrong to assume things.

To change a scene i feel is importance. Just like with anything else. I feel when u make a game do it right, and not make shortcuts like making the same scenes just with different characters, or like with morrigan wearing no bra, yet in the sex scens she does. Lack of consistency and being lazy doesnt do a game justice either. A game that took this long to make should have these types of things. People may have there specific gripes, but when theres a lack of consistency that throws out logic, then thats just going too far.

I think we also have to keep in mind that Bioware makes great games, not great pornography.  The sex scenes are meant to convey a point and the fact that they've created a game/games which depict human intimacy to some degree at all is fine by me.  I'm not trying to "get happy" while playing Bioware games as I don't think electronic sources can replace true human intimacy.  Bioware made a great product and its sex scenes represent less than 1% of that product.  I don't feel the need to scrutinize them so closely.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

If Alistair is in love with the femme PC, and he does say he loves her, then she's the only woman he's ever been with and the only woman he's ever loved. Having spoken to Alsitair and gotten to know him, he's a romantic, and his heart is going to be involved in his decisions.



I would think he would feel insanely guilty about even the thought of sleeping with a woman he hates, even if the woman he loved told him to do it. I imagine he'd agree because it will keep them both alive and that's about it. He wouldn't enjoy it.

[seraphymon]

theres enjoyment, but of other games i play and even in real life, the pleasure may feel good to ur body physically, but mentally theres been anger, frustration fear, resistance. u name it. I

[ReubenLiew]

Doesn't he already though? Afterwards he seems guilty enough, the animation as far as I can tell ( I have no idea why yours is grinning) he looks very scared and not comfortable at all, even as far as wincing.



I think the animation and the repurcussions later are spot on.

[Ex-Paladin]

Hm, how to explain...he's not enjoying it WITH Morrigan, but he does enjoy the pleasure. He'd rather be with his PC lover and would probably be imagining that it is with his PC lover, and not Morrigan.



I liked the cutscene, cause Alistair looked very uncomfortable and ready to hide...but the music could have sooo been changed. Heck, no music would have been better just the "romance" music is my only problem...okay, and Alistair sitting on the bed like he was.

[ReubenLiew]

I would imagine he'd do what Loghain does.

Close his eyes and imagine it's you He does seem to be the sort.

[Malkut]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

If Alistair is in love with the femme PC, and he does say he loves her, then she's the only woman he's ever been with and the only woman he's ever loved.

Unless, of course, you got him to take part in a fourway with a stranger and a bisexual man who's openly attracted to him.

[faerinor]

I agree the music should have been changed. If at the very least to help portray that this was definitely not romance goin on.

[seraphymon]

ReubenLiew wrote...


All games are made of shortcuts. If they didn't make shortcuts this game would've taken even longer and costed even more money. It's galling to see people accusing developers of being lazy when they themselves have no idea how much effort goes into the thing. The game that takes this long comes out with what is presented, if you expected more it will take even longer, or will cost a lot more money, or will be less than what you'd think it is. You can't have the entire of the above, that's just downright absurd.

I think people that play games made by others have a right to speak what they want. The customers are the ones giving them money to play it. Even more ehn a customer knows the insides of it. I also am i nthe fields of this stuff and it is not absurd in this situation. This is just an example but yes there are more shortcuts out there in games in different situations. But then theres games without them and they do just fine, if not better becuase peopel take their time with it. Theres always problems, but straight out noticable as this is just  as u put it absurd.

[Ex-Paladin]

ReubenLiew wrote...

I would imagine he'd do what Loghain does.
Close his eyes and imagine it's you He does seem to be the sort.

Oh God, Loghain closes his eyes? *Shudders* that's creepy O_o but I agree with the closing eyes and imagining it's PC lover. That's something I think Alistair would have done.

[Ex-Paladin]

faerinor wrote...

I agree the music should have been changed. If at the very least to help portray that this was definitely not romance goin on.

Exactly! That's my biggest iff was the music for that scene! XD

[ReubenLiew]

Actually I hated that music, if it were gone permanently I'd be a happy shrew... I mean PC.

But yes, the music could've been different, but it costs money, unless they could use another inbuilt music to replace it instead.