175 réponses à ce sujet

[Malkut]

imported_beer wrote...

Trust the guys to come along and #$%^ about women complaining about a cutscene that features a male romanceable NPC in a GAME.

I'm sure we all recognize the general f---ed-uppedness of the situation.  People are just arguing that an expression of cringing horror is not really apropos for a heterosexual man in this situation.  Besides, is that really what you want?  That's not what I would want, if all the roles were swapped.

It's bad enough that you've talked him into having sex with someone against his will; would a graphic cutscene showing him suffering something out of Deliverance really make you feel any better about what you've just done?

Forsakerr wrote...

after the act she shapeshifts into a spider and eat him

I would approve of this, however.

[vocalemuse]

What cracks me up the most is, I'm a woman IRL and my character also romanced Alistair... but I liked the twist in the game. Do I wish my character could have been with Alistair the night before the battle? Sure, but who is to say she wasn't after he was with Morrigan? Could've gone back to his room to be with my character, which is what I imagine for her. Not to mention my character was friends with Morrigan and though she hated asking Alistair to do that, she knows that Morrigan isn't going after him purposely and does not have feelings for him at all.

So, yeah, just use your imagination and remember it is only a game... the man is not real. xD

Modifié par vocalemuse, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:49 .

[Ex-Paladin]

vocalemuse wrote...

What cracks me up the most is, I'm a woman IRL and my character also romanced Alistair... but I liked the twist in the game. Do I wish my character could have been with Alistair the night before the battle? Sure, but who is to say she wasn't after he was with Morrigan? Could've gone back to his room to be with my character, which is what I imagine for her. Not to mention my character was friends with Morrigan and though she hated asking Alistair to do that, she knows that Morrigan isn't going after him purposely and does not have feelings for him at all.

So, yeah, just use your imagination and remember it is only a game... the man is not real. xD

Agreed  that's what fanfictions are for

And yeah, my PC was close friends with Morrigan and even thanked her for the help and all  I just have a hard time imagining Alistair "enjoying" himself

Modifié par Ex-Paladin, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:54 .

[The Dead Milkman]

PinkShira wrote...

Besides my obvious dislike of having my Alistair have sex with Morrigan, I think the cut scene was totally wrong for him.

1) He hates her.  He's not going to be lying there like they have him.  I envision him on the bed with his legs pulled towards him.

2)  As she approaches him, his face should cringe and maybe even have him close him eyes.

3) The music should not be the same music that I get when I make love to him.  She is not "loving" him.  It's way too tender for what is actually going on.

I understand the scene is the same no matter what character beds her, but I think should have taken the time to make a different one for Alistair.  Even if you are a male and send him to her, he would still not like it.  And I know she says to him, you will not hate this as much as you think.  He's not going to be so relaxed for something he really doesn't want.

Am I the only one who can tell the difference between distrust and hate? I did not get a single "I HATE YOU" vibe  from either of them. While they may not like eachother, they probably wouldn't work together if they hated eachother.

[mrao]

A simple fade to black.

This would have been better than all the sex scenes in this game not just the one in the topic.

Although they are hilarious so maybe not.

Modifié par mrao, 21 novembre 2009 - 09:50 .

[Deviija]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Perhaps they shouldn't have had a cutscene at all. Fade to black still works!

I would have preferred this rather than pseudo-romantic sexytimes.  I did not need to see Morrigan's extreme boobage and seductive walk to the bed, then crawling over Alistair, and so on.  Not if my PC is having a romance with Alistair.  It was jarring and rather awkward to see.  I actually lol'd like a little schoolkid at recess. 

Fade to black would have been dandy.  Or at least have a dialogue scene afterward with the PC to ease the trauma of the situation.  In my game, I just couldn't see Morrigan and Alistair being aroused by one another.  Especially on Alistair's part. 

[LaztRezort]

You know, now that everyone mentions the fade-to-black, it does seem a little odd that BW put this scene in. At least, considering that there are other rompus scenes that the PC can have, that is not shown (the Dalish hunter wannabe, for example). I wonder why they took the time to animate a love scene between Alistair and Morrigan? Perhaps it is meant to be bit of psychological punishment for choosing this option?

I mean, you force your love partner into something so extreme, wouldn't just dwelling about it, without actually seeing the act, make the PC suffer a little inside? Maybe the scene in question didn't really happen that way -- rather, it is how a jealous PC is imagining the whole affair -- complete with that sickening sense that your lover is secretly enjoying it.

Maybe, just maybe. BW wanted to provoke jealous reactions from players.

[krystalevenstar]

I find it funny how a lot of people in this thread are telling one another how they're supposed to respond to the scene. For the most part, each and every one of our experiences with the game is unique. Not the core mechanics, but the emotions and responses invoked in us by those mechanics. Telling someone that they aren't allowed to feel awkward about how Alistair's character acted during the scene because 'any male would respond positively in that situation and you're just being jealous, etc' is pretty arrogant. Because of the fact that each of our experiences is unique, and each of our development of these characters is unique, each of us is entitled to feel however we want to about the scene. If you think that he was smiling and enjoying it based on what you experienced so far in the game, he was smiling and enjoying it in your story. If you think he was cringing and feeling all together revolted, he was revolted. Either way is an opinion and everyone is entitled to their own. The OP was stating what she felt would have been a better fit for his character based on her perception of him. Some people were discussing their own ideas and opinions of that which is totally cool, but people who were specifically calling each other out as being right or wrong are just being obnoxious. I don't see how anyone is entitled to tell each other if what they felt about a certain character is right or wrong.



As for the mechanical stand-point ie; don't **** about it because they spent so much time and money on everything else, why should they have to do something specific to please you, you're being ungreatful - type arguements, I really don't see how that's a valid point. Once the base mechanics for everything were there, compiling a different scene or two wouldn't have been that hard. Just like the rest of the game, depending on the origin you have you're going to have certain scenes in the game play out completely differently. I fail to see how this scene is any different than that.



Anyways... *climbs off soapbox and runs to hide before the flaming starts* XD

[ReubenLiew]

Because they have the same animation if you did it with her if you were male, or if Loghain did it. It was just an animation they felt that was required to have in the game.

[LaztRezort]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Because they have the same animation if you did it with her if you were male, or if Loghain did it. It was just an animation they felt that was required to have in the game.

But I wonder why they felt it was required.  I mean, after reading some of the comments here, I can understand how some would find watching a romance character have sex with another character (possibly one they don't even like) rather awkward and unenjoyable, no matter how it was presented.  Surely the developers/writers would have suspected this when deciding to put this scene together.

[Malkut]

imported_beer wrote...

I personally think no cut scene would have avoided this discussion. A
simple fade to black. Why does anyone need to see someone else banging
the hawt witch unless it is you?

For the same reason that Morrigan tells you that she loves you before vanishing forever with your child: to twist the knife.  That's what kind of story this is.  Behold the cost of your "happy ending."

Again, if the situation was reversed, I wouldn't feel the same way that some people seem to about it.  If a male character had to convince Leliana to sleep with another man, then showing her kinda enjoying it would be far preferable to watching her cringe in disgust and shame as a naked man advances on her.  Nobody wants to see that, which is why the opposite gender's insistance on it is so baffling to us.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I think there's a difference between physical enjoyment and emotional enjoyment. On a purely physical level, I'm sure he enjoys sex with Morrigan. She has a very fit body and undoubtedly knows enough to please a man.

On an emotional level, though, I'm equally sure he's repulsed by what he's doing. In fact, he probably feels shamed that he *did* feel good, physically, during the act. Sex isn't purely physical either, there's an emotional component as well. Hence why the sex is usually better with someone you love and trust compared to a one night stand you picked up at a bar. Though perhaps that's just my own biases and experiences speaking here.

That being said, I felt the scene was fine. I don't expect him to act like a rape victim and scrub himself until he bleeds/curl up in a corner and cry, and I don't think any of you should either. It's an uncomfortable situation, but it's not rape or anything like that. He shows trepidation and guilt in sufficient quantities to show me that he wasn't happy with the situation, so I'm not disappointed by the scene as presented. Though the music could've been changed to show the different relationship. That's my only real complaint.

I'm sure he's very guilty afterwards, but that's something the FemPC should help him with.

Edit: 

If a male character had to convince Leliana to sleep with another man, then showing her kinda enjoying it would be far preferable to watching her cringe in disgust and shame as a naked man advances on her.

That's a very good point. A very good point indeed. That would have all sorts of disturbing misogynist undertones that I wouldn't like. If my Leli is going to be forced to sleep with someone else to save my life, I don't want it to be like one of those "You gonna get raped/You just got raped" image macros from 4chan. Why would girls want the equivelent for their guy? 

Modifié par Cpl_Facehugger, 21 novembre 2009 - 10:56 .

[Malkut]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

That would have all sorts of disturbing misogynist undertones that I wouldn't like.

There's a bit of a double standard here, I think.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

imported_beer wrote...
but you'll see a LOT more understanding for the "fade to black" option.

If "fade to black" was an option, I'd pick that in a heartbeat. For ALL the sex scenes, because all of the sex scenes in this game are so bad that they turn into unintentional comedy. For instance, every time after the first where you sex up Leli, it shows a kiss, has the nice music, and then fades to black. That's so much better than the PG13 pseudo-sex we got for the first time. Let the player's imagination fill in the blanks. Maybe with some more pillow talk. Leli's pillow talk was nice, but kind of creepy how you wake up with her watching you, when you know she's probably assassinated people after a night of rambunctious sexings.

[Malkut]

imported_beer wrote...

My personal opinion is that if they showed a happy Leliana most guys would protest that she was enjoying sex with someone else.

Leliana has apparently enjoyed a lot of sex with a great many other people.  Unless I've put some kind of extremely petty jealous boyfriend hex on her (which I suppose I could, but wouldn't), then I don't see why she should lose the ability to do that now.

They may not want her to look like she is being raped- since they are the ones compelling her to do it, but you'll see a LOT more understanding for the "fade to black" option.

What you probably wouldn't see is a  thread of people who are outraged at the fact that she didn't look raped enough, which was what my entire point was. I am not critiquing the scene itself, I am commenting on the reaction to it in this thread, which is frankly a little scary.

[Malkut]

dp

Modifié par Malkut, 22 novembre 2009 - 09:09 .

[PinkShira]

I'm ready for more flaming. Nitpicking part 2 - the waking up in the jail cell on the hard floor mostly naked scene. Since most people complain about costs of making 2 separate scenes I'll say how they could have made me happy: Alistair should have been in the cell next to yours... because if he is in my same cell and he isn't cradling my head on his lap worried about me, he's not the man I thought he was! And yes, I know its the same scene for everyone and him doing it to a male pc or female pc he's not in love with would be creepy....so take him out of my cell or make 2 separate scenes. OK, you may now rip me apart again.

[arntson]

heres the truth: its a lie hes just a good shot they never had sex he masturbates while thinking about femwarden and then aims it right at morrigans whom or he does it in a bottle that she inserts there is no morrigan/alister sex

[MEUTRIERE]

PinkShira wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

Because a guy who's about to bed a hot woman (willingly, if a bit reluctant, at that) is supposed to act like he's doing it with an ogre?

I... highly doubt that.

I can understand a lot of women want Alistair to be absolutely faithful to them or whatever, but this is a MAN we're talking about, plus YOU persuaded him to sleep with her, asking him not to enjoy it no matter what is taking it a little too far, don't you think?

Plus, he looks frightened enough. And animation is expensive and time consuming, therefore there is only one scene as it saves cost and time.

You do not know my Alistair at all!  He may be a man, but he HATES her.  He even says can I get drunk or knock me out first.  Just because you find her hot, does not mean all men do.  And I know it costs more money, but it's the same scene even if its a male character that loves her.

But... he's still a man.  D:
He says those things just so your female character doesn't kick him in the balls before he goes.  He's much more clever than you give him credit for. 

[TheDauntless]

For the most part I agree with the OP. It would've been nice if whichever male character on the bed had maintained a neutral expression and body language to satisfy everybody. I didn't think it was done very well, regardless. The lighting at those angles made the male look like a Ken doll. Morrigan's hips and bewbiez seemed strangely bigger...her undies looked like they should've been more restricting to her rack compared to what her normal outfit does, but whatev. All told, it was made to be str8 male gratification. Sperm in a mug would've done the job just as well otherwise. Certainly Morrigan would've preferred that instead of a night with Loghain. Well, I speak for myself in her shoes.

At least Morrigan does everyone the courtesy of blowing out the candle first. I can acknowledge the possibility that she sees Alistair as a complete moron even if she finds him physically attractive enough for the experience to be enjoyable. Likewise, he may despise her even if his body can respond to her. An apostate in the dark must have her ways. I didn't like it because in both my playthroughs Alistair and I were a couple, but I made the selfish mistake of completely rejecting her offer the first time, hoping to slay the archdemon myself for Alistair. Kept him close to me as a theme, so on the rooftop Alistair ended up 2 steps ahead of my plans. It was an extremely effective and heartbreaking ending. Our choices, indeed. The devs put a lot of thought into the possibilities, such that they finally felt like endings compared to past games. That post-coronation music was beautifully appropriate for grief amidst triumph.

Once I was able to see again I had to metagame a bit before planning my second playthrough, to come up with a happier ending. There was no way to have that without also having the demon-baby, so what else was there to do? I was an elven mage the second time; I was disgusted by the concept of the Chantry(beautiful prose in the Chants and Codex, however) both in-game and IRL, so despite being a "good" character I was open to dealing with demons who take advantage of those people too stupid to not know any better. Morrigan's argument for the Old God's survival was therefore easy to swallow as a means to an end. Alistair and I were not destined to live long anyway, so why would I care if that squalorous country faced dying in **** later on?

I did encourage Alistair to pursue the throne, but he and I were both male Gray Wardens and doubly incapable of producing heirs. Morrigan's offer was helpful in the long run. With a bastard heir out in the wild Alistair would not need to openly sire anymore. He knows well that a royal bastard in hiding can end up being a good thing. In this there was no call for secrecy between Alistair and I. Had I been the one to try covertly performing with Morrigan I would've failed for every reason imaginable. The game's mechanics would've had me succeed, but Alistair would've felt rightfully betrayed by me in the wake of the archdemon's "death." I found it unacceptable to conceal from Alistair two such huge and simultaneous events that went against our relationship.

I was not pleased by Morrigan's blaise, knowitall attitude as she offered the way out, but her attitude was a blessing in disguise. She does not mean to steal Alistair for herself. Perhaps she wants to ransom the throne in the future, but I doubt she means to do so against the friends she owes. If she means to she can have at it. She certainly earned her shot at it. At the Denerim gates I thanked Morrigan for providing the chance by which Alistair and I could continue to have a future together. I was happy that we all still got what we wanted. "Dune" is one of my favorite novels, and it obviously inspired major elements in DA. Concubines proved well that they could be the true loves of their royal mates. As his chancellor, I ended up being that and more. I may not have been happy that I couldn't keep my king completely to myself, but it came with the territory. And...I'm pleased to know that my lover and king fathered an Old God. Hmm. Maybe there was even more inspiration from "Dune" than I thought.

Modifié par TheDauntless, 30 décembre 2009 - 06:48 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

DiablosShadows wrote...

so if u play a female character Morrigan automaticaly sleeps with Alistair?

No, you still have to convince him, or the secret companion can also, if you cannot (for being female) or will not.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ReubenLiew wrote...
But Morrigan is a fictional character, and that means her features is sculpted specifically by artists who know what men like (since it seems a lot of their artists are men). I don't know for certain how much Alistair likes or dislikes Morrigan physically, as the only people who'll know for certain are Bioware, but then I can easily say the same for anyone here as well except for Bioware folks, so telling me that I don't know Alistair as well as you do is about the same as me telling you that Alistair would find Morrigan hot.

I do insist however that asking them to create a seperate animation just for this one particular gripe is absurd, and I've dealth with a lot of absurd requests on animation in my time to know when something is just plain nit-picking.

Reuben, I'm a man too and trust me when I say that good looks is only PART of the equation. Do I consider Morrigan pretty? Yes. Would I sleep with her is she was real? No. Not my type.

To think that a male will just run after anything in a skirt like a mindless animal... Al hates Morrigna..despises would be a better word. You never feel comfortable bedding someone you despise.