209 réponses à ce sujet

[Shepard the Leper]

What always baffles me is people judging powers on Insanity. The entire game is designed and balanced around Normal (not Insanity) and I don't think Biotics are not effective on Normal difficulty, in fact, I consider the Adept class the most powerful class on the default difficulty setting (you can toss around everything except the most powerful enemies - as it should be IMHO).

Some people's inability to handle protection has nothing to do with biotic powers, it has everything to do with difficulty. If you can't handle it, don't play on Insanity. Protection doesn't stop Adepts to dominate the battlefield on Insanity, it's only a little more complicated compared to Soldiers who can only fire bullets at the enemy. There are plenty of Youtube videos showing what Adepts can do and they don't look weak to me (on Insanity).

Oh, and enemies have protection on Casual too - it's an important gameplay mechanic. Removing it effectively means 90% of all powers become useless: Why use Warp, Singularity, Stasis etc etc if you can Pull or Throw enemies every 2 seconds? Fly YMIR fly (boring).

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

I never played Adept in ME1, didn't appeal. I gave it a go in ME2 - On Normal I found it too easy and above that I found it too boring. Going from Vanguard to Adept probably didn't help.

[Shifty Assassin]

Well even if they nerf it there are at least more uses for biotics now Eg. ripping the shield of a gaurdian

[sg1fan75]

I want a more powerful Vanguard!

[LGTX]

Biotics were more focused in ME2, not toned down. They weren't designed to turn tides of entire battles - just single encounters. They'll be better balanced and more varied in ME3, but definitely not "toned down".

[mokponobi]

I fail to understand why people say biotics were weak in ME2, the only justification for this false statement is laziness.

If we overlook the fact that on normal difficulty biotics made enemies a joke, and only focus on insanity, there are enough videos out there to disprove this notion, trying to explain now after how many years that biotics are very effective is pointless.

[Shepard the Leper]

Tchones13 wrote...

I did notice though, that Biotics abilities are looking more like Electricity or some sort of energy  - as opposed to that Blue/Purple sometimes with that cool invisible, "ripple effect" from ME1: check the Push ability and how it has changed - it looks more and more like a generic energy ball that knocks people back than a Telekinetic Push

That's a gameplay decision. In ME1 all powers are insta-cast, there are no projectiles like in ME2. Although projectiles don't mesh well with the biotic lore (being telekinetic powers), it does improve overall gameplay. In ME2 you can arc powers which allows Shep to Pull enemies who are hiding behind cover or a wall and you can Throw enemies wherever you want to (of ledges preferably) - stuff not possible in ME1.

[CajNatalie]

Tchones13 wrote...

LonewolfXIII wrote...
... and on an even more asthetic note... are biotics purple now?

javierabegazo wrote...

Biotics have always been blueish-purple

I did notice though, that Biotics abilities are looking more like Electricity or some sort of energy  - as opposed to that Blue/Purple sometimes with that cool invisible, "ripple effect" from ME1: check the Push ability and how it has changed - it looks more and more like a generic energy ball that knocks people back than a Telekinetic Push.

In lore, Biotics generate a lot of static electricity, especially when they charge up for a powerful biotic attack.
I'm glad to finally see some sparks around Shep, at least with the biotic pawnch, since that's something that has to be charged up.
Also, Biotics use dark energy, they're not exactly just 'psychic powers', so biotic projectiles of... guess what... dark energy... aren't a stretch at all.


Anyway, on this topic of biotic power... first off, everything in ME1 was overpowered.
Combat classes were tanks, and could run through gunfire ignoring the bullets. Eventually they'd get owned, but with a techie and biotic at their side to keep the crowds and their gear locked down, that would never happen.
Tech classes were in absolute control of every enemy with guns. Slap some Sabotage around and you can run in the open freely amongst a bunch of harmless wailing idiots just waiting to be shot. A bit of neural shock and damping also helped hold off melee enemies, though occasionally a biotic was needed to help them out.
Biotic classes were in absolute control of melee enemies. Nothing could get close to them. If you're happy doing a desperate struggle to keep everyone in the air / on the floor then they're alright against gun-users, too, but it's a lot easier when you've got a techie around to take the heat off.

In ME2...
Shep's armor and shields are weakened... a little too much perhaps, but now you can't run around like a lunatic and faceroll unless you happen to know exactly what you're doing and have mastered the game. The soldier has the most HP, and with Hard ARush the toughest HP, but still it can't result in God Mode.
Techs are much more focused to locking down individuals and performing direct damage. You can't just slap on sabotage on all guns at once and go berserk.
Biotics, instead of controlling every single enemy at once, are now efficient controllers of small clusters of enemies at a time.
Everything was toned down, and it seems for good reason.

I like biotics in ME2 now. Especially since the battles actually have a lot of 'kill zones' now so you really can kill people with minimum gunshots. In ME1 you could have people ragdolled, but you'd be stuck in some room with no kill zone, and have to unload on them anyway. Also, often in ME1, due to lack of 'kill zones', if you tried to toss someone out of bounds, they'd just get up alive... this has caused frustration from time-to-time when they fall in to places where you can't even aim your gun at them. =/

Modifié par CajNatalie, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:19 .

[sp0ck 06]

Watch some of the videos in the "Power of the Adept" thread over on the strategy boards, if you think biotics are weak in ME2.

[IronSabbath88]

Biotics and Adept were way overpowered in ME1. I should know, Adept is what I used to beat Insanity and I was a mere Level 41 with an Assault Rifle dominating everything infront of me without being in any real danger.

Basically, you could use biotics on every kind of enemy really and even if they had shields. Mass Effect 2 makes it more difficult with the fact that you can't use stuff like Pull or Throw if they have Armor, Shields or a Barrier, you have to deal with that first in order to make it work. It's a lot more challenging in that matter.

[No Snakes Alive]

I didn't even bother reading the whole thread because I found it too funny how many people mentioned Biotics not working on protections as if it was a problem in ME2. Play on Casual if you can't handle stripping defenses before using your Biotics. That's why Bioware put all those different difficty levels in: so people like you could play the game the way you want while people like me could enjoy the strategy behind having to strip defenses before using powers.

Nothing was toned down: no powers aside from those that strip defenses (and Stasis) work on defenses, not Biotics nor Tech. The only tuning down you should find when you play is, again, the difficulty level you play on if you want free reign to use powers without being bound by the hassle of actual strategy.

[No Snakes Alive]

And to those saying Biotics were so much more OP in ME1, a gold standard Infiltrator build with AI Hacking had just as much CC prowess with the added perk of invincibility. There were plenty of builds that blew difficulty out of the water in ME1, and that's why the implemented the new system with protections. Just because the game has been made more and more challenging on its harder difficulties doesn't mean that powers are weaker or anything's been toned down.

There are some people who could never even go back to easier difficulties once getting accustomed to ME2's Insanity, myself included. And I barely used guns at all on my Adept playthrough so Biotics are definitely still potent.

[Eurhetemec]

I used to believe that Biotics were underpowered in ME2 on higher difficulties.

Then I actually played through the game on Insanity with an Adept. Actually through the game - not just the first few levels, and good grief, by the time my Shepard was in his late teens level-wise, he was a HORRIFIC MONSTER, wiping the floor with enemies in a way that made my Infiltrator blush.

Once you learn to strip shields efficiently, and once Warp and Singularity are levelled up, you'll soon forget any crazy ideas about Biotics being weak in ME2.

[mutant27]

The problem is not that boitics are to difficult on Insanity so much as it's not fun to wait around while your companions take down their shields. Sure you could attempt to shoot the enemy though they can kill an adept in a few hits so it isn't always a good idea to peak out for very long. That means you are waiting through a good portion of the battle for your teammates to take down their defenses and thats not much fun. They should have given the adept a way to damage shields right off the bat which would at least give them something to do early in the fight against shielded enemies.

[IronSabbath88]

That kind of confuses me since Adept's have access to a Barrier, so you throw up the Barrier, and whittle down their defenses. Plus Warp works against Armor and Barrier. The only thing Adepts have trouble with is Shields but you should really always have someone with Overload with you to take care of that.

[Shepard the Leper]

mutant27 wrote...

The problem is not that boitics are to difficult on Insanity so much as it's not fun to wait around while your companions take down their shields. Sure you could attempt to shoot the enemy though they can kill an adept in a few hits so it isn't always a good idea to peak out for very long. That means you are waiting through a good portion of the battle for your teammates to take down their defenses and thats not much fun. They should have given the adept a way to damage shields right off the bat which would at least give them something to do early in the fight against shielded enemies.

All classes have equal hitpoints. A Vanguard dies just as fast as an Adept, only Soldiers get a (neglectible) health bonus. Only the Sentinel and Engineer have Overload to remove shields; all other classes have to use their guns (which are much more effective against shields than against health BTW). If you can't deal with shields playing an Adept, I don't know how you deal with them when playing Infiltrator or Soldier.

[mutant27]

Barrier isn't available early in the game unless you are on your second playthrough. Adept isn't that bad on Insanity once you get Energy Drain, but the problem is you don't get Energy Drain until later in the game on your first playthrough. If you had Energy Drain and Warp as your first two skills there would be no problem with the adept on and difficulty level.

[mutant27]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

mutant27 wrote...

The problem is not that boitics are to difficult on Insanity so much as it's not fun to wait around while your companions take down their shields. Sure you could attempt to shoot the enemy though they can kill an adept in a few hits so it isn't always a good idea to peak out for very long. That means you are waiting through a good portion of the battle for your teammates to take down their defenses and thats not much fun. They should have given the adept a way to damage shields right off the bat which would at least give them something to do early in the fight against shielded enemies.

All classes have equal hitpoints. A Vanguard dies just as fast as an Adept, only Soldiers get a (neglectible) health bonus. Only the Sentinel and Engineer have Overload to remove shields; all other classes have to use their guns (which are much more effective against shields than against health BTW). If you can't deal with shields playing an Adept, I don't know how you deal with them when playing Infiltrator or Soldier.

This is odd because I always die faster on the adept I play than any other class and it seems  to take longer for shields to get back up and health to come back for some reason.  Usually if an enemy gets close it's certain death and if I get shot two or three times I'm out of the fight for 20 to 30 seconds before health/shield recover.  I've tried other characters and they seem to be able to shoot from cover with a lot more success and their health/shields seem to revoer a lot faster.

[Lumikki]

If I can be so bold and say it like this.

If you play Bionic like RPG in ME2, it doesn't work well. What means spamming you powers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 juillet 2011 - 04:38 .

[lazuli]

Shepard the Leper wrote...
All classes have equal hitpoints. A Vanguard dies just as fast as an Adept, only Soldiers get a (neglectible) health bonus. Only the Sentinel and Engineer have Overload to remove shields; all other classes have to use their guns (which are much more effective against shields than against health BTW). If you can't deal with shields playing an Adept, I don't know how you deal with them when playing Infiltrator or Soldier.

This is only true if you spend all your time standing out in the open, not using powers.  Many classes have abilities that increase their survivability.  Adepts (without bonus powers) do not.  In fact, to play an effective Adept you will need to spend a lot of time exposed to enemy fire, activating your powers.

I proposed a moderate barrier boost upon power activation for Adepts, but it's not an ideal solution as you have to take into account the brief period of invincibility Shepard has when his/her shields drop.

[Xivai]

A lot of people missing the point here. It's not about the fact we can't handle it. It's BORING! Every other class on that highest difficulty is a fun experience and is easier. Why is Adept arbitrarily harder? WHY!? That's all really. No one here said they couldn't do it, just that it was tedious. Why use your powers when shooting them is faster than using a power after you strip defenses. Seriously it makes no sense.

On the highest difficulty level you have warp and singularity. Everything else was just toys for lower difficulty levels. Why can't people see we want more variety this time around? SO boring relying on the same one two combo punch.

[Shepard the Leper]

@ Mutant27

The problem with the Adept's vulnerability is closely related to their powers. Soldiers and Infiltrators can use their signature powers to reduces or completely bypass enemy fire, Vanguards and Sentinels can instantly get their shields back when needed, and Engineers can cast a drone to distract the most dangerous enemy. All those powers take effect instantly, Adepts don't have that luxury. All their powers have to travel to target first before taking effect; time your Adept will be taking damage. Barrier bonus power can solve this issue, but Stasis can be used like Combat Drones to instantly disable enemies. Both powers can dramatically increase the Adept's survivability - at least they did for me

[Eurhetemec]

mutant27 wrote...

Barrier isn't available early in the game unless you are on your second playthrough. Adept isn't that bad on Insanity once you get Energy Drain, but the problem is you don't get Energy Drain until later in the game on your first playthrough. If you had Energy Drain and Warp as your first two skills there would be no problem with the adept on and difficulty level.

You don't really need Energy Drain. I went through without it on Insanity-Adept, as I felt it was cheesy-as-heck - perhaps even genuinely "overpowered". Also on the second play-through you can have Stasis, which is very effective. I used Barrier personally, as it was thematically appropriate.

[mutant27]

Eurhetemec wrote...

mutant27 wrote...

Barrier isn't available early in the game unless you are on your second playthrough. Adept isn't that bad on Insanity once you get Energy Drain, but the problem is you don't get Energy Drain until later in the game on your first playthrough. If you had Energy Drain and Warp as your first two skills there would be no problem with the adept on and difficulty level.

You don't really need Energy Drain. I went through without it on Insanity-Adept, as I felt it was cheesy-as-heck - perhaps even genuinely "overpowered". Also on the second play-through you can have Stasis, which is very effective. I used Barrier personally, as it was thematically appropriate.

LIke I said you can manager on insanity without Energy Drain, but it's not much fun as you are constantly sitting in cover and waiting for your teammates to take down the enemies shields.