600 réponses à ce sujet

[SilentK]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

The first time I played it was with Lady Hawke, Sebastian, Isabela and Warden Bethany. Sebastian was the romance and Bethany started flirting with Sebastian after he was wondering why people call her Lady Hawke so much. Then out of nowhere a cutscene starts where she told Bethany to back off and then her and rival Sebastian romance kissed! I was amazed!

This was also after I beat campaign

Whattt!!! Is this for real. My FemHawke can finally get something with Sebastian. I know what I'm doing tonight, FemHawke and Sebastian goes to legacy ASAP after work    

[Sealy]

SilentK wrote...

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

The first time I played it was with Lady Hawke, Sebastian, Isabela and Warden Bethany. Sebastian was the romance and Bethany started flirting with Sebastian after he was wondering why people call her Lady Hawke so much. Then out of nowhere a cutscene starts where she told Bethany to back off and then her and rival Sebastian romance kissed! I was amazed!

This was also after I beat campaign

Whattt!!! Is this for real. My FemHawke can finally get something with Sebastian. I know what I'm doing tonight, FemHawke and Sebastian goes to legacy ASAP after work    

 
What? Sebastian gets loving and my Fenris gets... uhg. I am all right, I'm all right.  *Sigh* Now I have to go romance Sebas, cause the only reason I avoid that hot, hot mess is cause he is actionless, will friendmance work you think or only rivals? Crap, this means I have to keep Bethany alive too.

[Lilunebrium]

paul_25 wrote...

The warden was definitely possessed at the end. If you read the completed quests - legacy part in the journal it says "... Corypheus is defeated. For now."

Welll. That's not ominous at all.

Gnas wrote...
2. In a cut scene where Hawke can discuss her father, I got Anders talking to my Hawke and not Fenris. I expected Fenris as he is my Hawke's love interest and at 100% friend. 

Eek. Now I'm really starting to suspect the presence of a Fenris-related bug. Hogod.
I'm still cautiously optimistic this is merely because Anders is a fellow mage and so they figured Hawke could relate to him more, and the moody elf is simply too stoic to actually engage in romance-related banter or activities. 

I'll finish a playthrough where I let Anders go, and see who shows up then.

[Dave of Canada]

 Confusion around!

Corypheus was sealed by the dwarves or the Grey Wardens approximately for 2000 years.
Approximately 2000 years ago, Tevinter was founded and Andraste was slain.
The "first" darkspawn was created 800 years or so before the First Blight.

This creates some confusion.

Corypheus demands to see the first acolyte of Dumat, meaning he doesn't know that most of Tevinter has forsaken the Old Gods since the first Blight occured. This makes sense with the timeline, he's been imprisoned since their fall.

This would mean that the breach into the Golden City must've occured a long time before the First Blight or that we're dealing with another group of magisters who've tried the same thing (assuming he is a magister and delusional) and just didn't bring any Darkspawn into the world (unlikely).

Corypheus was sealed before the First Blight.

There's a few other things, though these are the most nagging. Anybody have any thoughts on it? I'm just trying to fit it all into a puzzle and it doesn't work.

[Lilunebrium]

ZombieGeisha wrote...
I didn't play with an awakening save, I plab to tonight now to see the dialogue also with GW bethany. I really wanted to see what Malcolm looked liked, his voice was epic.

I highly doubt we'll ever get to see Malcolm, for the mere reason of Hawke's appearance. Don't get me wrong, I hope we do, but I'd also find it understandable if they kept Malcolm's appearance hidden so us the players can use it as a possible excuse for how different Hawke looks from the siblings and Leandra.

Dave of Canada wrote...

 Confusion around!

Corypheus was sealed by the dwarves or the Grey Wardens approximately for 2000 years.
Approximately 2000 years ago, Tevinter was founded and Andraste was slain.
The "first" darkspawn was created 800 years or so before the First Blight.

This creates some confusion.

Corypheus demands to see the first acolyte of Dumat, meaning he doesn't know that most of Tevinter has forsaken the Old Gods since the first Blight occured. This makes sense with the timeline, he's been imprisoned since their fall.

This would mean that the breach into the Golden City must've occured a long time before the First Blight or that we're dealing with another group of magisters who've tried the same thing (assuming he is a magister and delusional) and just didn't bring any Darkspawn into the world (unlikely).

Corypheus was sealed before the First Blight.

There's a few other things, though these are the most nagging. Anybody have any thoughts on it? I'm just trying to fit it all into a puzzle and it doesn't work.

I assume that (following the theory used in-game) just because the Magisters were turned into the first Darkspawn, doesn't mean they immediately went and ravaged the land. 
Given the scale of the First Blight, I imagine it'd take quite a long time between the creation of the first Darkspawn, and a high enough population to go ransack Thedas.

elikal71 wrote...

More than what Corypheus mentions is, what he NOT mentions: The Maker. Instead Corypheus just says, Dumat promised them "the power of the Gods". Plural. Not the power of God, or the Maker. And not "the power to be Gods", it seems to indicate they expected some Gods in that city or a power to rival the power of Gods elsewhere. Isn't it weird that he does not mention the Maker in one single word? I find that the most important thing, given the Chantry claims it was the Makers city they wanted to invade.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tevinters were still worshipping the Old Gods around the time of their experiment, not the Maker, so that does make sense.

Modifié par Lilunebrium, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:06 .

[Lilunebrium]

Eek. Double post.

Modifié par Lilunebrium, 27 juillet 2011 - 07:53 .

[Lilunebrium]

Eek. Tripple post.

Modifié par Lilunebrium, 27 juillet 2011 - 07:54 .

[Dave of Canada]

Lilunebrium wrote...

I assume that (following the theory used in-game) just because the Magisters were turned into the first Darkspawn, doesn't mean they immediately went and ravaged the land. 
Given the scale of the First Blight, I imagine it'd take quite a long time between the creation of the first Darkspawn, and a high enough population to go ransack Thedas.

Good point. 

[elikal71]

Lilunebrium wrote...

ZombieGeisha wrote...
I didn't play with an awakening save, I plab to tonight now to see the dialogue also with GW bethany. I really wanted to see what Malcolm looked liked, his voice was epic.

I highly doubt we'll ever get to see Malcolm, for the mere reason of Hawke's appearance. Don't get me wrong, I hope we do, but I'd also find it understandable if they kept Malcolm's appearance hidden so us the players can use it as a possible excuse for how different Hawke looks from the siblings and Leandra.

Dave of Canada wrote...

 Confusion around!

Corypheus was sealed by the dwarves or the Grey Wardens approximately for 2000 years.
Approximately 2000 years ago, Tevinter was founded and Andraste was slain.
The "first" darkspawn was created 800 years or so before the First Blight.

This creates some confusion.

Corypheus demands to see the first acolyte of Dumat, meaning he doesn't know that most of Tevinter has forsaken the Old Gods since the first Blight occured. This makes sense with the timeline, he's been imprisoned since their fall.

This would mean that the breach into the Golden City must've occured a long time before the First Blight or that we're dealing with another group of magisters who've tried the same thing (assuming he is a magister and delusional) and just didn't bring any Darkspawn into the world (unlikely).

Corypheus was sealed before the First Blight.

There's a few other things, though these are the most nagging. Anybody have any thoughts on it? I'm just trying to fit it all into a puzzle and it doesn't work.

I assume that (following the theory used in-game) just because the Magisters were turned into the first Darkspawn, doesn't mean they immediately went and ravaged the land. 
Given the scale of the First Blight, I imagine it'd take quite a long time between the creation of the first Darkspawn, and a high enough population to go ransack Thedas.

elikal71 wrote...

More than what Corypheus mentions is, what he NOT mentions: The Maker. Instead Corypheus just says, Dumat promised them "the power of the Gods". Plural. Not the power of God, or the Maker. And not "the power to be Gods", it seems to indicate they expected some Gods in that city or a power to rival the power of Gods elsewhere. Isn't it weird that he does not mention the Maker in one single word? I find that the most important thing, given the Chantry claims it was the Makers city they wanted to invade.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tevinters were still worshipping the Old Gods around the time of their experiment, not the Maker. I don't find it hard to imagine they thought they would encounter the Old Gods. Or something.

The problem is, you think of religion too much from our world perspective. In these fictional worlds, Gods are real. You can't just "believe" in a God, as in our world. Dumat is a real "person". The old priests could converse with him and get something of it. Like a Priest in, say, D&D. If you are a priest of Lathander in D&D, you can do some miracles. The existence of the Gods in Faerun is no matter of "belief", because everyone knows they exist. I see the deities of Thedas in a similar way. The people chose it because their Gods did something in the world. Like you can go to the altar od Dumat, make the ritual and get some stuff. The followers of the Old Gods/Dragons hear the song of their Gods. The only difference is: no one claimed to ever have talked to the Maker, not even the Spirits!

I mean, ok, maybe the Maker is VERY VERY reclusive. But then, how could anyone come to worship him or write about him in the first place? It is said he lived in the Fade. Now we know Mages can travel the Fade. The special thing about the Tevinter Mages was only that they succeeded in entering the Golden City. Would you not assume they would say something about the Maker? That they met him, or saw him or anything?

[Dave of Canada]

The Dragon Age religions weren't created from the fantasy religion point of view, though. They intentionally made it vague so you'd either believe or not, something like the real world. We only know the Old Gods exist, though we don't know if they are actual gods or simply powerful beings claiming to be gods (if they claimed anything at all).

[TEWR]

Corypheus is 2000 years old yes. That doesn't mean he was trapped immediately. Given his fanatical worship towards Dumat, maybe he just prayed for 1000 years and traversed the land before the Wardens came across him

[Lilunebrium]

elikal71 wrote...
The special thing about the Tevinter Mages was only that they succeeded in entering the Golden City. Would you not assume they would say something about the Maker? That they met him, or saw him or anything?

Well, that's BioWare's mind**** for you. It's all just speculation at this point, and I doubt we'll get it cleared up soon. Theories abound, really.
What if the Maker doesn't exist? He wasn't there when the Magisters arrived (can be waylayed by how he could have simply not shown himself, and other such things). What if the Maker's a Darkspawn? He got interested in Andraste when he heard her sing and the Golden City wasn't as Golden as the Magisters thought it would be (though what he would gain from the physical world is beyond me).

We don't know enough yet to form a plausible theory. As Dave of Canada phrased it;

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Dragon Age religions weren't created from the fantasy religion point of view, though. They intentionally made it vague so you'd either believe or not, something like the real world. We only know the Old Gods exist, though we don't know if they are actual gods or simply powerful beings claiming to be gods (if they claimed anything at all).

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Corypheus is 2000 years old yes. That doesn't mean he was trapped immediately. Given his fanatical worship towards Dumat, maybe he just prayed for 1000 years and traversed the land before the Wardens came across him

I meant he was trapped for 2000 years.

"2000 years, the magic holds" and whatever.

[Bryy_Miller]

It's becoming more and more clear that the Chantry's tale of the Black City and the Maker is at least somewhat true. First we have Sandal's prophecy, now we have a freaking Tevinter Mage himself.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Dragon Age religions weren't created from the fantasy religion point of view, though. They intentionally made it vague so you'd either believe or not, something like the real world. We only know the Old Gods exist, though we don't know if they are actual gods or simply powerful beings claiming to be gods (if they claimed anything at all).

I'm of the mindset that ALL of the religions in Thedas have some truth to them, save for the Qun since we know so little about it and it's more of a philosophy then an outright religion.

It seems like the Tevinters and the Primeval Thaig Dwarves may be complicit in the presence and emergence of the Darkspawn. Let's examine the facts of the religions. The religious ones and the historical ones.


Andrastianism:

• We definitely know Andraste was a real person. Whether she was chosen by the Maker or just a powerful mage, or even both, is unknown.
  
• We know that the Tevinters did indeed try to assault the Golden City, but when they arrived it had been blackened already, and as a result they were turned into Darkspawn. However, the Chantry says this happened 1000 years ago. Corypheus is testament that it happened at least 2000 years ago. So the Chant has some measure of truth to it.
  
• Are there any others?

The Ancestors and the Paragons:

• The Memories of the Stone live forever. Kal-Hirol and the countless Dwarven Shades we face are proof of this.
  
• Dwarves existed long before the Memories say so. At least 10,000 years ago they made a Thaig their home.
  
• They made an idol out of Red Lyrium and statues of deities out of red lyrium. Red Lyrium thins the Veil. If this Lyrium thins the Veil, it may have been a valuable asset to the Tevinter Imperium's attempt to take the Golden City.
  
• Golems existed well before Caridin created them.
  
• Dwarves fought Darkspawn long before humanity did, and what they fought were creatures in their own image. The Genlocks.

The Old Gods of the Ancient Tevinter Imperium:

• Records show that there were 7 Old Gods: Dumat, Zazikel, Toth, Andoral, Urthemiel, Razikale, and Lusacan. Of these 7, 5 have become Archdemons. However, the last Archdemon, Urthemiel, had the opportunity to have his soul transfer to Morrigan's child. If you say no, however, Morrigan seems to leave the party (somehow I doubt she'd give up so easily. She probably gave Riordan a shot because she had nothing to lose and the Old God's soul traveled far to find her. If you leave her at the city gates, the Old God's soul still goes to her instead of any other Darkspawn in the horde, so distance must not be a factor)

• Like I said in Andrastianism, the Tevinters tried to take the Golden City, only to find no Golden City. But a Black City
  
• Allegedly, Dumat taught blood magic to the Imperium's people. There are conflicting stories on the origins of it though. Demons, Dragons, or the Elves of Arlathan. Maybe all are true. Maybe only one is. It should be mentioned though that the Dragons in the Silverite Mine activate Blood Magic in the battle. Whether that means anything about the Old Gods I don't know.

The Creators, the Forgotten Ones, and Fen'Harel the Dread wolf:

• The Emergent Compendium says that Fen'Harel hasn't left the world.
  
• The Varterral is an indication that Arlathan did exist, but now for some reason they have gone berserk.
  
• The City of Arlathan is gone, supposedly sunk by the Magisters. But whether they could've done that is unknown. Since Corypheus could control the elements (Earth especially), it may be possible.
  
• The Eluvians link to a place "beyond Thedas and beyond the Fade" (as Morrigan tells us)
  
• The Elves were supposedly immortal, and I think the Brecilian Ruins in Nature and the Beast may hint that there's some measure of truth to it.
  
• All elves once had the gif of magic.
  
• Supposedly, Elves used Blood Magic and taught the humans.

That's all I have right now. I'm leaving out historical facts between these four groups, like the Fall of the Dales and how suspicious it is. Anyone else get the feeling the Chantry has a bunch of records on many things and are keeping them hidden from the world? Because I sure as hell do.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:52 .

[MemeLeigh]

Victia wrote...

I also sided with Larius but if I am right then we will be hearing alot more from Corypheus as I got the impression that Lari was possesed by Cory in that last bit!

I played from a post game save and loved the ending - would have been nice if LI showed even the slightest concern but hey :-)!!!

Yes! I saw that change in Larius as well. Before Corypheus was killed, his eyes changed to human like. I think since a non-warden killed him, his soul (much like a old god's) tranfered.

The LIs do have a little input in the beginning. And if you take Anders (as a LI) he does have a bit bigger reaction down in the prison.

[Dave of Canada]

Filament wrote...

I took it that the dwarves were the first ones to seal him, calling him the "Pestilent One" with a different name? Or was that the super secret easter egg I missed entirely?

I missed it too if so, I never found a purpose for the Warm Orb and I'm entirely confused at it's purpose.

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She probably gave Riordan a shot because she had nothing to lose and the Old God's soul traveled far to find her. If you leave her at the city gates, the Old God's soul still goes to her instead of any other Darkspawn in the horde, so distance must not be a factor)

If this occured, and it had worked, the Warden / Alistair / Loghain wouldn't have died at the end. 

[TEWR]

I wonder.... didn't the Dwarves make sacrifices to trap him? If they were at one time mages, then..... WHOA.....



I'm already fuzzy on the codexes and what they actually said. Somebody refresh my memory, they need to be posted here!

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She probably gave Riordan a shot because she had nothing to lose and the Old God's soul traveled far to find her. If you leave her at the city gates, the Old God's soul still goes to her instead of any other Darkspawn in the horde, so distance must not be a factor)

If this occured, and it had worked, the Warden / Alistair / Loghain wouldn't have died at the end. 

You're not the first to say that, but people always forget about wartime injuries. Trauma to the head and such. Bleeding internally. And other injuries that are fatal.

Remember, the Archdemon's explosion sent people flying back. The Fourth Blight's Archdemon sent Garahel flying back really far due to the Archdemon going ape****. Who's to say Urthemiel didn't do the same?




I watched from across the battlefield as Garahel struck the final blow against the Archdemon and a great wave of energy surged out from the beast.

It was enough to level what buildings were not already destroyed by the endless battle we had fought, enough to knock horses and ogres aside as if they were little more than parchment. Even at my distance, the force struck me like the blast of some great storm. The darkspawn around us felt it too, as savage desperation turned to sheer terror.

A great pillar of energy rushed up into the dark clouds, the blackness that had gathered with the horde and blocked out all glimmer of hope. When we stood again, we saw the first rays of sunshine peeking through those clouds and we let out such a cheer of joy and relief that it shook the very earth. I joined the others as we searched for Garahel, but as the eve approached all I found was his enchanted helm. It was not until much later that I heard his body had been retrieved, flung to the far side of the battlefield by the Archdemon’s death throes. My friend, this elf who helped us unite the lands and cleanse Thedas of the darkspawn scourge will always be remembered. I swear it.

—Excerpt from a letter written by the Grey Warden Prosper, 5:24 Exalted [/i]


If Urthemiel did the same thing to Loghain/Alistair/Warden that happened to Garahel, no magic in Thedas would be able to save them.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:09 .

[Bobad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Filament wrote...

I took it that the dwarves were the first ones to seal him, calling him the "Pestilent One" with a different name? Or was that the super secret easter egg I missed entirely?

I missed it too if so, I never found a purpose for the Warm Orb and I'm entirely confused at it's purpose.

I thought it said Warm Club*, Warm Orb makes more sense, maybe that's an Easter Egg for the Glowing Orb in Mass Effect?.

EDIT: Stupid SDTV and badly contrasting menu selections.

Modifié par Bobad, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:04 .

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


You're not the first to say that, but people always forget about wartime injuries. Trauma to the head and such. Bleeding internally. And other injuries that are fatal.

Remember, the Archdemon's explosion sent people flying back. The Fourth Blight sent Garahel flying back really far due to the Archdemon going ape****. Who's to say Urthemiel didn't do the same?

Wouldn't the explosion have killed the people who did the Dark Ritual then?

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


You're not the first to say that, but people always forget about wartime injuries. Trauma to the head and such. Bleeding internally. And other injuries that are fatal.

Remember, the Archdemon's explosion sent people flying back. The Fourth Blight sent Garahel flying back really far due to the Archdemon going ape****. Who's to say Urthemiel didn't do the same?

Wouldn't the explosion have killed the people who did the Dark Ritual then?

Not necessarily. Different universe, different things happened? *shrugs* meh I don't know. 

Also, Plot Armor.

I think the explosion is just this massive surge of energy that can send you blasting back. How far you're blasted back really depends on what's behind you. If there's a wall behind you, then you just might have the wind knocked out of you and suffer some broken bones and be really injured.

If there's nothing, then you're going to become the next Riordan pancake.

Garahel was sent flying because the Archdemon was making violent convulsions. If Urthemiel did the same thing to the Warden/Alistair/Loghain, they're toast.

I don't know it doesn't have to make sense. Ok, that's a lie. It has to make a modicum of sense at least. The OGB seems to be important to the plot, and what I said earlier is a way that it could still exist without retconning peoples' Wardens dying, which was the extent of the US choice.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:18 .