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[DA2 Legacy] Story Discussion - SPOILERS ABOUND!


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#251
Lisa_H

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

  • We know that the Tevinters did indeed try to assault the Golden City, but when they arrived it had been blackened already, and as a result they were turned into Darkspawn. However, the Chantry says this happened 1000 years ago. Corypheus is testament that it happened at least 2000 years ago. So the Chant has some measure of truth to it.



This makes me wonder however. All mages can see the Black City when they enter the fade shouldn't the magisters have known if it was black instead of golden as the old gods claimed.

#252
elikal71

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Ok I finished Legacy, and must say I am quite pleased. Finally some more fodder for the world story. I tried to find all pieces of paper, and I sided with the women (name?) who wanted to free and control Corypheus. Not because I really believed it would work, but I felt it would open more dialogue WITH Corypheus and thus give more info.

So what I learned was this:

- apparently Corypheus was one of the original Tevinter Mages who tried to invade the "Golden City"... which was QUITE a remarkable thing, I must admit

- Corypheus was apparently once a sort of Priest of Dumat; Dumat was the God of Silence of the "Older Gods", and obviously Dumat (and/or the Older Gods in general) actually ordered the Tevinter Mages to invade the "Golden City", Dumat and the Older Gods had promised the Tevinter Mages "the Light", but instead they found something different, a great darkness of sorts; Corypheus clearly said that what they found was not what they expected/had been promised

- we also know, Dumat was the first Dragon/Demon to be contaiged by the Blight and thus start the First Blight, which happend in Anderfels if I recally correct, from the expansion of DA:O and the "Architect" we know the Blight tainted the Old Gods/Dragons in a way, so they were not originally so demonic as we know them from DA:O. Which does not necessarily mean they were demonic or evil.

- Cory says the city has been black "ever since"; it can mean both: it has always been black (at the inside) or it was black ever since they got there

- Corypheus also says, Dumat promised them "the power of the Gods", plural! Not "the power of God" or "the power of the Maker"! Actually Corypheus does not mention The Maker with one word, which IMVPO is the most striking fact. If the Chantry version was true, would this not be one of the topics he would speak about? But instead Corypheus mentions the Maker not in one word. Remarkable, given it is assumes the Golden City was his, or so the Chantry claims.

EDIT:
- also the Altar of Dumat "works", so Dumat can apparently still grant wishes. Even though the reward is kinda crappy. I onder what that implies??


Two Questions remain open:

a) The Dalish speak of the Creators (their good Gods) and the "Forgotten Ones", another more chaotic race of Gods, and those two were ar war. But who are the "Older Gods" Dumat belongs to? The Elven Creators, the Forgotten Ones? Or is the Dalish religion just hogwash? OR are they all the same? My personal idea at the moment is, that the Older Gods like Dumat are the Forgotten Ones.

B) What REALLY happened in the Golden/Black City? I found it quite remarkable that one of the original Tevinter Mages still lives. Didn't the Chantry say they were imprisoned in the Black City? I don't recall exactly what the Cantry said about the fate of these mages. And Coryphus said, what they found was not what they expected. How? I still have a VERY hard time, that some mages, with whatever power, just invade the city of the Maker himself... But what else was there? You see, the Blight hit the Old Gods/Dragons bad, it didn't work well for them. So was the Blight contained within the city? Was it a prison for some yet unknown evil? I mean, sure we can assume the Elven Gods are just imaginary, but it strikes me, that they are apparently the only group we hear nothing from, ony Fen'Harel banished them just like the other gods, the Forgotten Ones.

Oh man... just such a small puzzle piece. *sigh*

I really hope, whatever DA3 brings, we get to know a LOT more. (And IMVPO I would be very disappointed if the Chantry were true... but I guess that's just me.)



EDIT 2:

After some thought I came to this idea:

The Old Gods are apparently identical with the Dragons, Dumat being the first. These Dragons lived under the earth. And Dumat and the Old Gods told the Tevinter Mages how to invade the Golden City and promised them power. "The Power of the Gods", Corypheus says. This indicated there were other gods besides the "Old Gods". In the Dalish myth we hear of two God pantheons, the Creators and the Forgotten Ones. The Creators lived in Heaven and the Forgotten Ones in the Abyss.

If we assume Heaven is the Fade and the Abyss the deep roads, it makes sense. So we can assume the Creators, the Elven Gods lived in the "Fade", maybe in the Golden City? And the Forgotten Ones would be identical with the Old Gods, who also are the Dragons/Demons of the Blight. Then Fen'Harel who banished them both could indeed be the Maker. For why else should Dumat and the Old Gods direct the Tevinter Mages to conquer the Golden City, if not to overthrow their old enemies, the Elven Creator Gods? But what had happend with the Creators? Did they die? Did they turn into something dark, being imprisoned inside the Golden City by Fen'Harel/The Maker?

Must further investigate. Rorschach journal over... ;)

#253
ladyofpayne

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I hope on end of Hawke and Anders story.

#254
TEWR

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Fen'Harel being the Maker is a theory I've thought of before as well.


A lot of people are saying that Flemeth is either: Fen'Harel or the Dumat OGB, who was in turn Andraste.


It's confusing....

#255
elikal71

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Fen'Harel being the Maker is a theory I've thought of before as well.


A lot of people are saying that Flemeth is either: Fen'Harel or the Dumat OGB, who was in turn Andraste.


It's confusing....




My worst fear is, that there are NO answers at all. Bioware will just keep spilling out mysteries and it's all just made up without any sense. That would suck. :/

#256
TEWR

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"Quick! Think up another insane yet awesome thing to confuse them further!"

"Shouldn't we try to actually answer these mysteries?"

"It's too late now! We're too far in to get back out! Might as well take them down with us!"



A typical day in the Bioware office I bet Posted Image

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:35 .


#257
CruserBoii

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Did anyone find it odd that even when you brought a Grey Warden sibling and Anders with you, that Anders was the only one reacting to the call? I was expecting both of them to start freaking out. But nope, Bethany was just like 'lolimfine.' I wonder if it has something to do with how long you've been tainted.

#258
TEWR

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If you talk to Carver (I only did a playthrough of it with Carver), he says "Bloody voices! I can hear them!"


Your sibling's taint isn't as far advanced as Anders' though. Anders has been a Warden for longer. Not much longer, but still longer.

#259
TheMadExile

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It's also possible that Anders condition (fused with Justice, a spirit of the Fade) makes him
more susceptible to/able to hear the call than he otherwise would be as simply a GW.

Modifié par TheMadExile, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:59 .


#260
TEWR

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Corypheus did manage to draw out Justice somehow....

I actually thought the voice Anders was hearing was Justice and that he was going to rear his glowing head somewhere down the line because of the whole talking Darkspawn thing. Instead all I saw was Justice saying two words, then poof.

#261
elikal71

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Blast, now we have to wait 1+ year for more info, haha. >.<

#262
TEWR

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Filament wrote...

Yeah if it just arbitrarily kills the ones who didn't do the dark ritual but the dark ritual happens anyway, that would be a pretty big cop-out.



indeed. Whoever killed the Archdemon should stay dead if the DR wasn't performed, but that doesn't mean the OGB won't appear.
Hell for all we know Orlesian Wardens came into Ferelden like Riordan did (all sneakily and such Posted Image) and she seduced one and did the DR, assuming she fled and didn't try the DR with Riordan. The baby acted like a beacon to the Old God's soul, since it ignored all darkspawn in Denerim to go to Morrigan if she was left at the gate, so who's to say it didn't travel all over Ferelden?

If it couldn't act like a beacon, they would've made it so that having Morrigan in the party was a requirement for you to survive.

#263
RoooLicious

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CruserBoii wrote...

Did anyone find it odd that even when you brought a Grey Warden sibling and Anders with you, that Anders was the only one reacting to the call? I was expecting both of them to start freaking out. But nope, Bethany was just like 'lolimfine.' I wonder if it has something to do with how long you've been tainted.


Beth can indeed hear him, she says "why is everyone whispering?" or something like that, whereas anders heard it as a song (drums and voices) so I guess it's just more intense the longer you've had the taint

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Filament wrote...

Yeah if it just arbitrarily kills the ones who didn't do the dark ritual but the dark ritual happens anyway, that would be a pretty big cop-out.



indeed. Whoever killed the Archdemon should stay dead if the DR wasn't performed, but that doesn't mean the OGB won't appear.
.


but then the Old God would have been all "must go to that beacon, but hey! let's make a quick stop inside this warden's body, fight with his sould, have that die, yet I would survive, even tho that's not how it works, and THEN go to the beacon"

I don't think if Morrigan performed the DR with another warden, the PC warden would die, since it's the "having 2 souls inside him" that kills him AND the OG.

Modifié par RoooLicious, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:47 .


#264
TEWR

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Go back to page 10, where I said that the Warden could've died because of war injuries like internal bleeding, head trauma, Riordan pancake syndrome, etc.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:48 .


#265
RoooLicious

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read that, but the DR wouldn't save you from that, then (btw, I dunno why, but I like you name, maybe it's the word "Ethereal" xD)

I think I get it now as I type, but I'm too lazy to erase... is it something like marvel comics alternate timelines, or The Legend of Zelda parallel timelines created by one different choice (or outcome) in the ending?

(I'm seriously tryna understand, not refute things)

#266
Lilunebrium

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Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm... wow, it isn't very spoilery but it almost brought a tear to my eye. Archery Hawkes don't have the generic melee "finisher" on Corypheus but actually gets one of their own.

Props to whoever did those!


Mr. Epler tackled rather a lot of those, should you be looking to pass those props on directly.


I've completed Legacy with both my archer and dual wielder, and both finishers made me all giddy. So to follow up on Mike Laidlaw's claim;

John Epler, I adore thee.

Modifié par Lilunebrium, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:58 .


#267
TEWR

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RoooLicious wrote...

read that, but the DR wouldn't save you from that, then (btw, I dunno why, but I like you name, maybe it's the word "Ethereal" xD)

I think I get it now as I type, but I'm too lazy to erase... is it something like marvel comics alternate timelines, or The Legend of Zelda parallel timelines created by one different choice (or outcome) in the ending?

(I'm seriously tryna understand, not refute things)



Basically what I'm saying is that even if you say no to Morrigan, that doesn't stop her from trying with Riordan. Or if she fled the area, Bioware could easily say that she did the DR in somewhere around the Redcliffe area with another Orlesian Warden spy who just snuck in.

So, Morrigan did the DR with some other Warden. Whoever you sent to kill the Archdemon (yourself, Alistair, or Loghain) died due to war injuries and not the Old God's soul.

No one would know the difference in Thedas. There's no way to know whether someone took in the soul of an Old God. You can't really do an autopsy for that sort of thing.

Instead of traveling to the Warden who killed the Archdemon, it traveled as far as it had to so it could find Morrigan's child, since it acts like a beacon if you leave her at the gates.

In short, the Warden who killed the Archdemon still died and was still a hero, but the OGB is still in play. Saying no to Morrigan doesn't mean you magically made her forget about her plan. Not everything revolves around the Warden (though some people on here honestly believe everything does revolve around the Warden. like him saying no will actually keep people from doing something).

Better?

#268
Rydia_Alexander

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Beth says that when shes a circle mage too though

#269
slayingstorm1

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maybe the maker is a faith demon or something and has set all of it up to gain more strength:huh:

#270
ladyofpayne

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Poor poor Anders in Legacy. He will die in addon or DA 3. :(

#271
Bobad

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slayingstorm1 wrote...

maybe the maker is a faith demon or something and has set all of it up to gain more strength:huh:


I always thought the Maker was a Bob the Builder Demon.

http://t5ak.roblox.c...90c0778b675ecc8

#272
ladyofpayne

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Poor poor Anders in Legacy. He will die in addon or DA 3.

#273
elikal71

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ladyofpayne wrote...

Poor poor Anders in Legacy. He will die in addon or DA 3. :(


Can't be, I already stabbed him. That traiterous jerk!

#274
Funker Shepard

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Quinnzel wrote...

Had a blast with it. Found it to be actually quite challenging. Running through again with my Mage. Bringing Warden Carver, Anders and Merrill along. Got to love the banter between a romanced Merrill and Anders:
'Were you looking through my spell books the other day?'
'No? When? Uh...'
'At my clinic, when I was talking to Hawke. Those are private you know.'
'Well ah, I was hoping you might have some...dirty spells?'
'Dirty spells?'
'Yes, to spice things up..'
'Spice things up? With you and Hawke?!'
Hawke: 'Ah..um, please...stop talking..'
(or something like that. Memory like a holey bucket me)


(Romanced isabela) had another golden one right in the beginning, about how those carta attacks are troublesome as she's naked around the estate. :)

Also Varric's fourth-wall breaking "how come you don't have  nickname? Because I'm the narrator!" cracked me up. Good work, writers! :)

#275
UltraBoy360

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I missed Gamlen! Where was he?