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[The Cow King]

devSin wrote...
Followed by bard (people like them, but I never use them in BG series).

Bards are hideously powerful, even in bg1.

Sure, pure bard is not so strong (in BG1), but why would anyone play a pure bard to begin with?

Modifié par The Cow King, 24 octobre 2011 - 11:59 .

[ncknck]

Mehh.

Druid in BG1 has the best xp progression table, it basically costs nothing to multiclass an additional caster. Healing and summons. Show me a battle which cant be done with summons. Its borderline cheesy.

Bard with 3kk exp, get the Song. Simple math, in a full group at least, bonuses from the song outshine stuff one could get from a "standalone" character. And do not require resting, gear, buffs, micromanagement. Specialization is key in RPGs and the bard does exactly that, increases the specialization level of other melee characters.


Ranger is the only class which has nothing, and even pays for that with increased xp reqs. I cant thing of anything useful or unique a ranger can do or even has, which other classes couldnt do much better.

Modifié par ncknck, 12 novembre 2011 - 12:08 .

[The Cow King]

ncknck wrote...
Ranger is the only class which has nothing, and even pays for that with increased xp reqs. I cant thing of anything useful or unique a ranger can do or even has, which other classes couldnt do much better.

Archer, of course, is an exception. But it's very true for a pure ranger.

You could still argue however, as ranger gets Armor of Faith (which is pretty sweet combined with Hardiness) & dispel magic, vs. fighter and his three extra HLAs and grandmastery (+2 dmg).

Modifié par The Cow King, 12 novembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[Grond0]

ncknck wrote...
Ranger is the only class which has nothing, and even pays for that with increased xp reqs. I cant thing of anything useful or unique a ranger can do or even has, which other classes couldnt do much better.

A fighter-type who can stealth may be of limited benefit in a party, but provides a huge edge if you're playing solo.

[Alesia_BH]

Just a quick note on rangers...

Like Anonymous Hero, I can only comment from a Solo No Reload viewpoint. And of course, playing style and gaming context do have a profound effect on what one would find "weak" or "powerful."

With that caveat out of the way, in my experience, stealth is a huge boon and rangers are just fine.

Some of you may have read about my Stalker, Ashoka, in the No Reload Challenge thread. She ultimately fell to SCS-Ascension Abazigal, but I was restricting her pretty heavily and she didn't have any trouble taking him down in subsequent attempts. She would have likely been fine after that though SCS-Ascension Mel might have been tricky on a first go.

All the Rangers seem perfectly viable to me in SCS-Ascension Solo No Reloads- including the Beastmaster. The only real issue with the Beastmaster is that you lose access to the metal immunity conferring weapons making them a bit more potion dependent. There is little wrong with them aside from that once you focus on the stuff that counts and ignore the stuff that doesn't.


The Wild Mage, Wizard Slayer, and Transmuter are the only ones that strike me as been truly problematic in a solo No Reload context.

Have fun with the gimp search everyone!

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 12 novembre 2011 - 01:13 .

[ncknck]

Invisibility potion.

[The Cow King]

Alesia_BH wrote...
The Wild Mage, Wizard Slayer, and Transmuter are the only ones that strike me as been truly problematic in a solo No Reload context.

Wizard Slayers however, are absolutely brutal in a party. They can easily acquire 100% magic resistance, can attack 9 times per round with improved haste, and the cumulative spell failure goes through ALL magic protections (Mirror Image, Stoneskin, PfMW, Absolute Immunity etc), and from what I've read, it even affects abilities like Wing Buffet etc... what it means in practise, is a 100% magic resistant fighter (without practically any drawbacks), who can completely gimp 1 caster per round for the rest of the fight, without them having any defense against it.

The loss of 2x rings, cloak and a belt is completely meaningless.

Modifié par The Cow King, 12 novembre 2011 - 01:25 .

[AnonymousHero]

ncknck wrote...

Invisibility potion.

Broken by True Seeing (and all other related spells). Stealth + Non-detection cloak really means that the character is completely immune for as long as it takes. With vanilla AI this may not be a big deal, but with SCS (II) it is.

Also, these potions are not in infinite supply when you're a (non-thief) solo.

[AnonymousHero]

The Cow King wrote...
the cumulative spell failure goes through ALL magic protections (Mirror Image, Stoneskin, PfMW, Absolute Immunity etc), and [...]

I don't think it goes through PfMW (nor Absolute Immunity unless you have weapons of high enough enchantment). AFAIK you have to score a "hit" (regardless of whether that hit actually does any damage or not) to apply the spell failure -- if you're getting "Weapon Ineffective" messages (as with PfMW), you're not scoring a "hit".

[The Cow King]

AnonymousHero wrote...
I don't think it goes through PfMW (nor Absolute Immunity unless you have weapons of high enough enchantment). AFAIK you have to score a "hit" (regardless of whether that hit actually does any damage or not) to apply the spell failure -- if you're getting "Weapon Ineffective" messages (as with PfMW), you're not scoring a "hit".

I think you're right (otherwise level drain would go through such as well), I only tested against Mirror Image, but circumventing PfMW is well, obviously easy. Mantles are not really a problem either, seeing you can get access to a +4 weapon very early on. I think the only real problem could be Absolute Immunity in SoA if using SCSII (whether or not the scs wizards like to cast it or not, I don't know).

Modifié par The Cow King, 12 novembre 2011 - 01:37 .

[Alesia_BH]

ncknck wrote...
Invisibility potion.

Broken by True Seeing (and all other related spells). Stealth + Non-detection cloak really means that the character is completely immune for as long as it takes. With vanilla AI this may not be a big deal, but with SCS (II) it is.

Yup. The distinction between illusionary and non-illusionary invisibility can be critical when playing with intelligent AI. Invisibility Potions are illusionary, Stealth is not. And as AH also noted, the potion supply is finite assuming you don't have access to Alchemy

While the Invisibility potions never could approach true stealth, in vanilla -without G3- the Rings of Air Control can provide Fighters with something comparable since there is typically an infinte stack at Ribalds and the RoAC invisibility effect is coded as non-illusionary (meaning it won't dispelled by Divination magics if used in conjunction with the Cloak of Non-Detection). But even then, you have to consume a spell equivalent action opportunity to refresh and that can become a significant tactical distinction in tight situations.

Btw. I just noticed that The Cow King had mentioned Armor of Faith earlier. That is indeed a valuable ability.

The Cow King wrote...
Wizard Slayers however, are absolutely brutal in a party. 

Makes sense. 

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 12 novembre 2011 - 03:26 .