332 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

Neat read. I have heard some of his theories before, but he did offer a few new insights.

[MisterMist]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

Ya good article, but why not post in the official Bioware network ?

To quote the OP:

"I've posted over there numerous times before, but I find it hard to sift through the rampant stupidity over there."

This was a fascinating read. Thanks for sharing.

Modifié par MisterMist, 27 juillet 2011 - 06:55 .

[SpiffySquee]

Saphra Deden wrote...

He doesn't really bring up any theories I haven't already heard. Though his speculation about Mars is pretty silly. We already know exactly how the planet got to be the way it is and it had nothing to do with Reapers, I assure you.

So what scientist only theorize, you somehow know to be a fact? Last I heard we had a theory that when the planet cooled, the magnetic fields of mars slowly disappeared and allowed the solar winds to eventually dry up the water. We have no idea how long this process took. Another theory states that the low atmosphere might have cause the water to slowly boil away. Heck there was a paper published last year that suggests the water was iron rich and when oxygenated by the atmosphere and turned it all to acid. So... which of these are you stating as fact and thus completely disprove the OP's theory?

The Cerberus/Alliance connection as put forth by him and by Zulu is fascinating and well thought-out, but I don't think it is true. There is simply no indication of the Alliance/Cerberus connection anywhere in ME2. It isn't even lampshaded. The Evolution comic also pretty much spells out how Cerberus was formed and it was never part of the Alliance. It's an old concept from ME1 that the developers have decided to drop.

Agree with you there. Interesting idea, but we will just have to wait and see.

It is possible the Protheans put together the cycle of extinction, but I doubt it. If they had then how come they allowed themselves to fall into the Citadel trap? Even Vigil says they were taken by surprise.

It's not hard to think they were aware of the reapers from clues left by past civilizations, without them knowing the citadel was a giant death trap. Knowing that something is coming to wipe you out every 50,000 years is a far cry from knowing exactly how that something plans to do it. They might have known that the Relays were reaper tech, but be unaware that the Reapers could jump straight to the Citadel. 

How would they get an inkling anyway? The mass extinction we've observed around the galaxy aren't anything special. Any species at any time could have perpetrated them. Imagine you are a species like the asari or krogan who live anywhere from 1500 to 2000 years. If you came across a bronze age species that species might only be two or three or four generations away from space flight. That means your grand children or great grandchildren may have to compete with these beings on an insterstellar level.

So if you are a particularly self-interested species, and any species that survives to achieve space travel will be, then why not wipe them out? With minimal expense you can utterly devestate them and never have to worry about a future competitor.

That has surely happened many times in the history of the galaxy. Not to say that none of those extinctions (or even all of them) aren't caused by Reapers, but approaching this from a skeptic's standpoint... why should we assume that they are? I'm going to need more proof.

Other races causing galactic extinction I can buy. All of these races just happening to commit these unrelated genocides at or around times divisible by the 50,000 year mark? That's going to be hard to swallow. One would not notice a pattern in unrelated genocides. 

[Dexi]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

Ya good article, but why not post in the official Bandwagon network ?

Fix'd.

Because of that. This is Bandwagon Social Network, and loads of people would/will jump on the "ITS ALL FALSE AND YOU SUCK (BECAUSE I HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF IT FIRST)" bandwagon

[Inverness Moon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Evolution comic also pretty much spells out how Cerberus was formed and it was never part of the Alliance.

The Illusive Man recorded his manifesto on Arcturus Station.

I think it would be great for a story perspective if Cerberus and the Alliance were two faces of the same thing.

"Cerberus is humanity."

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:36 .

[CroGamer002]

^Neither the Alliance nor Council has my loyalty.

[KingNothing125]

The way I see it, if Cerberus is a clandestine Alliance splinter cell, then ratting them out to the Council with Keiji's graybox or some other method is just exposing their corruption. Cerberus is Chaotic Evil as far as I'm concerned, and even if I am pro-humanity, (like I said before I blew up the Collector Base) I'm not going to sacrifice humanity's soul for power.

Humanity's rightful place in the Galaxy is cooperation with the other Council races, not dominion over them.

If I sound like a Captain Picard Trekkie, so be it.

[CroGamer002]

Arcian wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^Neither the Alliance nor Council has my loyalty.

You misunderstand. It is only natural that the current Council will be dogged off the Citadel when the galactic population discovers that they have hushed down the Reaper threat. My loyalty lies with the new Council created after the war is over, comprised of crafty and competent individuals who contributed to the war effort and knows their way around the maze of politics and governing.

After Council decisions with Rachni Wars and Geth Rebellions, not even new one will convince me.


Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.


Well, they won't fool me 2nd time.
Unless Bioware forces me to join either Alliance or Council.

[Thalador]

Arcian wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^Neither the Alliance nor Council has my loyalty.

You misunderstand. It is only natural that the current Council will be dogged off the Citadel when the galactic population discovers that they have hushed down the Reaper threat. My loyalty lies with the new Council created after the war is over, comprised of crafty and competent individuals who contributed to the war effort and knows their way around the maze of politics and governing.

Actually, I think it would be better for the galaxy if the current Council got removed from office/couldn't handle the pressure and stepped down, and gave way for a more competent, emergency Council. Matriarch Aethyta, Captain Kirrahe, Lorik Qui'in or General Septimus would make a fine wartime Council (+ Udina or Anderson, of course), imo. Certainly, this transition would need to happen fast, as being leaderless even for days would really have its effect in the grand scheme of things, especially when hyper-advanced, sentient dreadnaughts are invading.

Modifié par Thalador, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:23 .

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

i not thiks Cerberus and Alliance is the same organization, why in Retribution Anderson help kahlee sanders to destroy all Cerberus base to save Grayson.
Cerberus not is the Alliance, Cerberus is the most bad human organization in the universe.
Cerberus not is goodm, not for himan people and not for the all spices to the Galaxy

[asindre]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

i not thiks Cerberus and Alliance is the same organization, why in Retribution Anderson help kahlee sanders to destroy all Cerberus base to save Grayson.

I'm not saying I believe it but if it was true that doesn't mean all alliance soldiers would know about it (because then Shepard would know), so Anderson and Kahlee wouldn't know they destroid alliance bases.

[Bad King]

Arcian wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

Humanity's rightful place in the Galaxy is cooperation with the other Council races, not dominion over them.

If I sound like a Captain Picard Trekkie, so be it.

You sound like a reasonable person. Though until the wheat has been separated from the chaff (I.e Cerberus has been purged from the Alliance) I do not see the Alliance as fit to govern humanity's interests.

Actually, the Alliance have been involved in several of their own unethical activities (for example their cooperation with Conatix, illegal AI research, funding pirates like Lord Darius etc). If you blame all the bad things they do on Cerberus, then you're oversimplifying things.

Modifié par Bad King, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:13 .

[Fatemaster]

The Eletania point was a smart one. But, anyone could read it in the ME Wiki. No offense intended, if some people see it like that.

[Dean_the_Young]

-edited out-

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:42 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Bad King wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Guys, we gotta step up our game. If the Steam forums are capable of putting out a post like this, then ME's home forums should definitely be able to.

Ever read one of Dean the Young's topics?

I've had a few. Any in particular you liked?

[Rahmiel]

Good read.  Totally not a waste of time, even if half or none of these points are touched on in ME3.  It's always good to keep thinking.  It's in our nature to know, and when people come out and say "ME1 and ME2 have no consistency" or "the writers don't know what they're doing" then people have to investigate to see if it's true.  I love both games, admittedly I didn't love ME2 when I first played it, but upon subsequent playthroughs and discussing theories, I've come to the conclusion that I thoroughly love the game and I don't see how ME1 and ME2 don't fit together perfectly.

All that said.. I think this guy does make a few erroneous assumptions, but at the same time, he also reminds me of a few events that I have forgotten, while bringing up connections that are very interesting.

First, the Arrival is meant to take place post SM.  It's been mentioned by someone at BW (I believe Casey mentioned it, or was it Jesse, during an E3 interview).  They allow the player to do the mission post Horizon for .. crap, well I forget why.  However, I know it was stated that the events in Arrival happen post SM.  It's dlc designed for post ME2 play.  That's pretty obvious.

His section on the Prothean legacy is very interesting.  I had completely forgotten about the vision of a cave man or monkey on Earth.  I am hoping that instead of modifying other races, that the Protheans were merely monitoring.  If they did modify us, then we're progressing along a path helped by the Protheans, which is a lot alike the Protheans developing along the paths the Reapers want them to.  Interesting here though, is the parallel between the events and technological advancement in the galaxy, with paragon/renegade choice.  Many different paths to the same end.  Renegades do not seem to care about the means, just the end, whereas paragon I would say does care about the means.  (Compassion vs. Ruthlessness)

I also disagree with his events about Mars, but simply because I find it inconceivable that Mars was the best place to draw water from, ferry it out to the Charon relay, and then they all just died off because they didn't want to land/live on Earth.  What?  It seems, to me, rather preposterous.  Will have to see how it plays out though.  Keeping an open mind, however I cannot see or believe what he laid out there regarding the Charon relay.

The section about the Collectors is interesting.  I have an alternate theory as to why the collectors were kept around.  Specific information can be erased from databases (such as coordinates, mission parameters, projects) however knowledge of the existence of such facilities is harder or impossible to erase.  Considering the Protheans were taken by surpise (as mentioned of Vigil) then it's entirely possible the Reapers have knowledge of the existence secret research projects by the Protheans but not where.  Great catch on his part regarding the baseline genetic comparison between Protheans and Humans.  That's a good thought.

Regarding the Cerberus and Alliance connection, he's likely right.  Cerberus didn't exist (from my understanding) around the events of the first novel.  The Alliance was doing research into AI's, which as we know, is not allowed.  Cerberus was likely set up post Revelation as a way to disavow responsibility, while fulling maintaining the results.  I never really thought about it until I read his post, but for the most part, it makes sense.  The only thing I disagree with, would be admiral Kahoku's murder.  I have a hard time believing Alliance brass would allow one of their own to be murdered/executed.  However, that could have been/be the start of Cerberus truly going rogue, and no longer doing as the Alliance wants.  I'm very interested in all of this.

Makes me really want to play ME3 now.

[bboynexus]

I had no idea someone had posted it here!

For those wondering, I am indeed Mimaz98. I do appreciate the comments and the feedback. I don't deny that I'm probably going to end up very off on numerous counts. That said, it was simply an exercise in analytical writing and because I'm such a fan of the series. The last few parts will be posted in the coming days. It will be finished by the end of the weekend. Again, thanks!

As a note, I am aware of how preposterous the Mars water theory is. It was my brain simply making connections.

My only nitpicky complaint is that he consistently uses the word "infer" when he actually means "imply." Fix that and it's a bonafide essay. Bravo sir!

Odd! I have no idea how that's happened! I'll be happy to edit it.

Modifié par bboynexus, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:04 .

[Longsword-83]

Arcian wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^Neither the Alliance nor Council has my loyalty.

You misunderstand. It is only natural that the current Council will be dogged off the Citadel when the galactic population discovers that they have hushed down the Reaper threat. My loyalty lies with the new Council created after the war is over, comprised of crafty and competent individuals who contributed to the war effort and knows their way around the maze of politics and governing.

Anyone else hoping at least one of Shepard's squaddies makes it on to the propsed "New Council"? I can't think of many people that are craftier and more competent than his team.

[bboynexus]

I can't quite imagine Garrus sitting behind a desk.

[sp0ck 06]

bboynexus wrote...

I had no idea someone had posted it here!

For those wondering, I am indeed Mimaz98. I do appreciate the comments and the feedback. I don't deny that I'm probably going to end up very off on numerous counts. That said, it was simply an exercise in analytical writing and because I'm such a fan of the series. The last few parts will be posted in the coming few days. It will be finished by the end of the weekend. Again, thanks!

As a note, I am aware of how preposterous the Mars water theory is. It was my brain simply making connections.

My only nitpicky complaint is that he consistently uses the word "infer" when he actually means "imply." Fix that and it's a bonafide essay. Bravo sir!

Odd! I have no idea how that's happened! I'll be happy to edit it.

Props to you friend, very entertaining and informative read.  Looking forward to the next sections.

[JediMaster_Murph]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

bboynexus wrote...

I had no idea someone had posted it here!

For those wondering, I am indeed Mimaz98. I do appreciate the comments and the feedback. I don't deny that I'm probably going to end up very off on numerous counts. That said, it was simply an exercise in analytical writing and because I'm such a fan of the series. The last few parts will be posted in the coming few days. It will be finished by the end of the weekend. Again, thanks!

As a note, I am aware of how preposterous the Mars water theory is. It was my brain simply making connections.

My only nitpicky complaint is that he consistently uses the word "infer" when he actually means "imply." Fix that and it's a bonafide essay. Bravo sir!

Odd! I have no idea how that's happened! I'll be happy to edit it.

Props to you friend, very entertaining and informative read.  Looking forward to the next sections.

true that, true that