332 réponses à ce sujet

[luzburg]

The part of the collectors, and the use reaper thec to reconstruct sheprad, and the comment of jenifer hale "sheprad has a new twist to her" is conserning. i hope that shepard is not a indoctrinable subject

anyway, all of this make sense, i hope the writers have a simelar view of things

Modifié par luzburg, 27 juillet 2011 - 06:42 .

[Pulletlamer]

Very interesting, certainly. I think the Prothean part is spot on or at the very least accurate. Although the part about Cerberus seems to be a bit weak, with that I mean how is it possible for Cerberus to have been cooperating with the Alliance all that time and then suddenly become the main antagonists in the series?

It doesn't make much sense. Besides that it would be quite stupid on the final game to suddenly uncover Cerberus, discovering that the Alliance is collaborating with them. I mean, the whole "traiors" plot doesn't fit with the galaxy being invaded by giant machines. Also by that rule, if Cerberus was collaborating with the Alliance then part of the Alliance would become indoctrinated or at least be against Shepard.

Think about it. It doesn't make much sense to uncover that now, while the galaxy is at war and Cerberus is working for the Reapers. Shepard would be like: Who cares for who they have worked? They're working for the Reapers now, we have to stop them.

EDIT: It's possible that Cerberus was a part of the Alliance that gone rogue and simply Admiral's Hackett (and the Alliance) efforts to uncover it is because if it was discovered it would compromise the Alliance against the Council.

Xenophobic humans that were part of the Alliance? Dirty stuff.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 27 juillet 2011 - 07:06 .

[Eurhetemec]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Maybe, maybe not: I remember differently, but I'm largely ambivalent about it because it didn't define my opinion of you, which really settled in observation of you in the ME3 forum. If it really wasn't you, and just another person with the same avatar, then I'm sorry: if it was you, and you simply forgot, I'm not.

Regardless, my evaluation of you wouldn't change.

Wow. Okay, just proving everything I said true, Dean. If there's an ignore feature, I'm adding you to it.

I repeat: I'm not that guy, and your lazy BS about "forgetting" and so on in an attempt to cover your error is really sad.

PS - I didn't even have this avatar when I argued with you, I had one of the zillion Wrex avatars.

Modifié par Eurhetemec, 27 juillet 2011 - 07:06 .

[dreman9999]

Helm505 wrote...

His section on the Prothean legacy is missing a particular point that works in his favor: the Eletania vision specifically says Shepard is seeing through the eyes of a Cro-Magnon hunter. That would typically be dated no farther back than 35,000 years. So, either a mistake was made - by Shepard, by BioWare - or the writers were making a point.

Reread the guys topic again.....His point was that Protheans had a hand in humanities evolution...after the Reapers left.....The warning becon may of got to the survies in sol system and those survivors may of taken measures to prolong them selfs. Or.....they cut themselves of way before invation and took percostions to prolong themselves. Point is,the protheans didn't full die off after the reaper invasion.

[Dean_the_Young]

-edited out-

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:41 .

[Reciever80]

Anyone ever play the Cortana level in Halo 3? Where Chief is fighting through the ship and Gravemind talks to him, and everything else around slows down?

I have a feeling we'll be seeing that sometime near the end of the game, or even in the middle. Possibly with the collector parts, or even in the middle. Where harbinger talks to him (And no, he doesn't say "THIS HURTS YOU"). Possibly like the sort of thing Sovereign would say. Stuff like you don't realize your place in things. That you are one small drop in an Ocean of Time. The Galaxy has been culled thousands of times. And you shall not be the last.

Idk. Just thoughts ^.^

[Il Divo]

Reciever80 wrote...

Anyone ever play the Cortana level in Halo 3? Where Chief is fighting through the ship and Gravemind talks to him, and everything else around slows down?

I have a feeling we'll be seeing that sometime near the end of the game, or even in the middle. Possibly with the collector parts, or even in the middle. Where harbinger talks to him (And no, he doesn't say "THIS HURTS YOU"). Possibly like the sort of thing Sovereign would say. Stuff like you don't realize your place in things. That you are one small drop in an Ocean of Time. The Galaxy has been culled thousands of times. And you shall not be the last.

Idk. Just thoughts ^.^

That mission was heart-breaking. I honestly thought Cortana wasn't going to make it.

[dreman9999]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Very interesting, certainly. I think the Prothean part is spot on or at the very least accurate. Although the part about Cerberus seems to be a bit weak, with that I mean how is it possible for Cerberus to have been cooperating with the Alliance all that time and then suddenly become the main antagonists in the series?

It doesn't make much sense. Besides that it would be quite stupid on the final game to suddenly uncover Cerberus, discovering that the Alliance is collaborating with them. I mean, the whole "traiors" plot doesn't fit with the galaxy being invaded by giant machines. Also by that rule, if Cerberus was collaborating with the Alliance then part of the Alliance would become indoctrinated or at least be against Shepard.

Think about it. It doesn't make much sense to uncover that now, while the galaxy is at war and Cerberus is working for the Reapers. Shepard would be like: Who cares for who they have worked? They're working for the Reapers now, we have to stop them.

EDIT: It's possible that Cerberus was a part of the Alliance that gone rogue and simply Admiral's Hackett (and the Alliance) efforts to uncover it is because if it was discovered it would compromise the Alliance against the Council.

Xenophobic humans that were part of the Alliance? Dirty stuff.

Yes, it makes sense. If you look at the lore and the actions of cerberus and the alliance you can see it....
1. The SR-1 develoment was master minded by TIM.  Meaning that concept of technolgy is build via cerberus first....From Biotics, and tech. TIM has his hand deep in Alliance desisons.
2. If you read Revilation you understand that humanity has a history of experimantation...In the novel they where experimenting with AI.....The concil found out and nearly put a crippling sanction on the Alliance due to it. With a threat of lossing revenue hanging over their heads....The alliance need a way to do questionable experiment with out drawning the attention of the council. Making a black-op team to do so is the easist way to do so manly because they are detachable. If the council find any horrible experiment, the alliance can always say "It was not us but a a rouge cell of humans that masterminded all of this.." And detach themselves from any punishment. So all the messy experiments were all sent off to cerberus so that humanity is not to be punised for them.
3. The alliance made cerberus,or in better stament allow cerberus to be created.

The thing is that many people think it's a compation between cerberus and the alliance but cerberus never truelly is ageinst the alliance. Cerberus was made to look like the bad guy to be seperated from humanities unified opioion...As well as the anti alien slogans made to draw people in as cannon fodder.....In truth, it is a pro-human group made to look like the bad guy so anything they do is not taken as the whole of humanity.

[M.Erik.Sal]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Eurhetemec wrote...

Wow. Okay, just proving everything I said true, Dean. If there's an ignore feature, I'm adding you to it.

Your unique definition of proof is rather why I have that opinion of you regardless.

I repeat: I'm not that guy, and your lazy BS about "forgetting" and so on in an attempt to cover your error is really sad.

And what was above is repeated again here. As I said from the start, I acknowlege that that I may be mistaken... but I also may not be mistaken. There is always the possibility you may well have done so, and it's you with the bad memory.

But, like I said, that incident wasn't causative, and is largely irrelevant. My opinion of you would be the same regardless.

PS - I didn't even have this avatar when I argued with you, I had one of the zillion Wrex avatars.

Maybe, maybe not. It's impossible to prove one way or the other at this point.

This entire argument is off-topic, and I for one would really appreciate it if you would kindly shut up about it. Both of you.

Saphra Deden wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Last
I heard we had a theory that when the planet cooled, the magnetic
fields of mars slowly disappeared and allowed the solar winds to
eventually dry up the water. We have no idea how long this process
took.

It took millions of years.

SpiffySquee wrote...

Another theory states that the low atmosphere might have cause the water to slowly boil away.

That's
part of the theory you listed above, genius. In an atmosphere as thin
as Mars' water cannot stay as liquid on the surface for very long.

The
atmosphere thinned as a result of  the solar winds blowing it away bit
by bit. This ocurred because Mars has a weak magnetic field. The field
is so weak because Mars is geologically inactive and it is inactive
because its mass was too small to begin with.

I'd have to read
about the other theory you presented. However just because it was
presented doesn't mean it is accepted. The theory I talked about above
is the most commonly accepted one I've heard.

The point is, Mars was definitely not a habitable planet a mere 50,000 years ago.

SpiffySquee wrote...

Other
races causing galactic extinction I can buy. All of these races just
happening to commit these unrelated genocides at or around times
divisible by the 50,000 year mark?

Show me proof of
this 50,000 year "pattern". I see no such pattern evident with the
examples we've seen in-game. I could also come up with other theories if
I were so inclined. Remember also that the modern Citadel civilization
has explored less than 1% of the galaxy. How could we possibly have
enough data to come to any conclusions, especially ones as outlandish as
the Reaper one?

Not that you aren't right about accepted scientific theory (at least for what I know a bout the topic at hand, on which I'm not expert or anything), you shouldn't confuse reality with the canon fiction in place in the ME universe. For certain things it's acceptable to just assume a fictional world follows real world science unless it otherwise lets you know it doesn't. Basic physical laws and such, for example. But there's obviously not an alien cache of advanced technology sitting on Mars waiting for us to discover it, or rather the chance that there is, is vanishingly slim. But in ME that's what we have, so you have to be willing to allow for the possibility that Mars may not be the way it is in ME for the same reasons as it is in real life. Enough about that though.

If i'm remembering correctly the 50,000 year cycle information came from Liara in the original game. Liara was an archeologist studying prothean ruins, so her most likely source for this information would be from said prothean ruins and if the information was contained there then that increases the likelyhood that the protheans did discover the extinction cycle.

[dreman9999]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Last I heard we had a theory that when the planet cooled, the magnetic fields of mars slowly disappeared and allowed the solar winds to eventually dry up the water. We have no idea how long this process took.

It took millions of years.

SpiffySquee wrote...

Another theory states that the low atmosphere might have cause the water to slowly boil away.

That's part of the theory you listed above, genius. In an atmosphere as thin as Mars' water cannot stay as liquid on the surface for very long.

The atmosphere thinned as a result of  the solar winds blowing it away bit by bit. This ocurred because Mars has a weak magnetic field. The field is so weak because Mars is geologically inactive and it is inactive because its mass was too small to begin with.

I'd have to read about the other theory you presented. However just because it was presented doesn't mean it is accepted. The theory I talked about above is the most commonly accepted one I've heard.

The point is, Mars was definitely not a habitable planet a mere 50,000 years ago.

SpiffySquee wrote...

Other races causing galactic extinction I can buy. All of these races just happening to commit these unrelated genocides at or around times divisible by the 50,000 year mark?

Show me proof of this 50,000 year "pattern". I see no such pattern evident with the examples we've seen in-game. I could also come up with other theories if I were so inclined. Remember also that the modern Citadel civilization has explored less than 1% of the galaxy. How could we possibly have enough data to come to any conclusions, especially ones as outlandish as the Reaper one?

...Liara T'soni......

[DarkSeraphym]

I love the amount of thought put into this post. Though, I do think there are some weak points in his theories.

First, I am not sure that we should take those quotes from Sovereign and Legion about using another's technology so seriously. I've played Mass Effect many times and it is apparent, to me at least, that Sovereign is not talking about "all Reaper tech" and pretty much exclusively about the Mass Relays. The fact that the Reapers have made mistakes and allowed Reaper tech that they did not want into organics hands has been a continuous problem for them. That has been a pretty large plot point. Hell, in both games the only reason you foil their scheme is because of Reaper tech being used against them.

As for Legion's quote, I think that one is less "black and white" and more of a matter to interpretation. What I think Legion actually meant by it is that those who opt to use that technology will end up a manner that is very similar to the Reapers. Essentially, the Reapers are an extremely oppressive force on the galaxy that have established a system of keeping the galaxy "in check", only to swoop in when they have determined it is has exhausted it's usefulness (become too dangerous to the Reaper's survival) and wipe advanced organics out. I believe that Legion means to say that understanding and actively using Reaper technology could potentially lead a species to become that same force on the galaxy. In a way, the Geth themselves are possible evidence of this. Using Reaper technology, the Heretic Geth intend to oppress the True Geth by means of reprogramming.

Second, I also do not think that we should discount the possibility of the Human-Reaper being another Vanguard as I feel that one of his core pieces of evidence is rather weak. Correct me if I am wrong as I have not completed Arrival prior to beating the game, but it was my understanding that in completing it that the Reapers have in fact "arrived" in the now destroyed system where the Alpha Relay was. Yet, do those same players still receive the scene at the end of Mass Effect 2 where the Reapers are still beyond the Milky Way? If anything, it seems to me like it makes more sense to play Arrival AFTER the Suicide Mission as it would remove that inconsistency.

Perhaps this is nothing more than the way in which the voice actor intended to play him, but I also can't help but notice that Harbinger is pretty upset that the Human-Reaper was destroyed when he says "You have failed. We will find another way." This might just be the way in which I read his posts, but I can't help but wonder why Harbinger would be so upset about this unless the Human-Reaper was meant to be something more than just another cog in the Reaper army. The way in which this quote is voiced, along with the text of the actual quote, seems to imply, to me anyway, that the Reapers had a role in mind for that Human-Reaper. One that I think was likely as the Vanguard.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:25 .

[REgentleman]

Mind was blown at least 3 times in quick succession reading those posts. Can't wait for the Steam poster to finish writing things up (or for ME 3 to be out)!

[luzburg]

i think every thing this mimaz98 guy is writing make sence, it may not be true but defenitly plausible most of it i hope its true, i tought of these things before to myself
anyway the Mass effect universe is to darn big that its not possible for me to keep track of such thing all the time and this is a nice guideline of what to think instead of wild speculation. i just hope to god that the game writhers bring atleast this mutch tought into this as he did

srry for my crappy english, im norwegian and didnt pay atention at scool

Modifié par luzburg, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .

[dreman9999]

Saphra Deden wrote...

M.Erik.Sal wrote...

Not that you aren't right about accepted scientific theory (at least for what I know a bout the topic at hand, on which I'm not expert or anything), you shouldn't confuse reality with the canon fiction in place in the ME universe.

I agree, but unless the Mass Effect universe directly contradicts reality I see no reason to dismiss what we know about the universe.

The history of Mars so far has not been significantly altered by the Mass Effect universe other than the existence of the Prothean base.

Not every uninhabitable planet that was once habitable (or at least more hospital) was the result of an artificially created disaster. Space is a chaotic place. **** happens.

Mars was destined from the begining to wind up the way it is. It didn't have the mass to keep its core molten and eventually it cooled down. That weakened the magnetic field... and you know the rest.

Mr.Erik.Sal wrote...

If i'm remembering correctly the 50,000 year cycle information came from Liara in the original game.

Yeah, but her theories were also dismissed by more senior archeologists. That doesn't mean she was wrong (clearly she isn't). However as I explained I feel the others have a good reason to dismiss such theories. Especially without physical evidence of these "Reapers".

Consider the quarians. They know Sovereign was a Reaper, that it wasn't a geth construct. However we don't actually know if they believe Shepard and Tali about the rest of the Reapers. The existence of one Reaper does not prove the existence of others.

Let see now....Soverign tell you theirs a cycle....Liara tell you theirs a cycle, Tali give you info from the geth that tells your theirs a cycle.... Via Cerberuse news network, (the news report before the arrival)  happen stated  about the cycle....The deves them selves state in the games lore theirs a cycle. So if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and quack like one.....It's a krogan....(It's a duck)
Oh, and Liara turnout to be right about her theary any way. Sheperd was the proof.
50,000 year cycle argument  is mute any way. It has one awnser....It happens.

[SpiffySquee]

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]M.Erik.Sal wrote...

Not that you aren't right about accepted scientific theory (at least for what I know a bout the topic at hand, on which I'm not expert or anything), you shouldn't confuse reality with the canon fiction in place in the ME universe.[/quote]

I agree, but unless the Mass Effect universe directly contradicts reality I see no reason to dismiss what we know about the universe.

The history of Mars so far has not been significantly altered by the Mass Effect universe other than the existence of the Prothean base.

Not every uninhabitable planet that was once habitable (or at least more hospital) was the result of an artificially created disaster. Space is a chaotic place. **** happens.

Mars was destined from the begining to wind up the way it is. It didn't have the mass to keep its core molten and eventually it cooled down. That weakened the magnetic field... and you know the rest.[/quote]

My problem is not with the fact ha they are commonly accepted theory, but with you stating them like they are undeniable fact. "We know what happened to the water." "It took millions of years." 
There is a reasons these are called theory. Namely because we have no way of knowing if we are right, we can only make educated guesses as to what happened.  It is very possible that the water disappeared of a completely different reason we have not discovered yet. Since no one was there when it happened we cannot be sure. To talk as though you know what happened like you know what you got from the store the other day is just bad science. 
Also, the fact that there was no water on the surface of mars 50,000 years ago might disprove the method he stated, but it does not disprove the idea that they could have move water from mars to the relay. There is tons of frozen water inside of mars.
[quote]Mr.Erik.Sal wrote...

If i'm remembering correctly the 50,000 year cycle information came from Liara in the original game.[/quote]

Yeah, but her theories were also dismissed by more senior archeologists. That doesn't mean she was wrong (clearly she isn't). However as I explained I feel the others have a good reason to dismiss such theories. Especially without physical evidence of these "Reapers".

Consider the quarians. They know Sovereign was a Reaper, that it wasn't a geth construct. However we don't actually know if they believe Shepard and Tali about the rest of the Reapers. The existence of one Reaper does not prove the existence of others.

[/quote]

Actually I was talking about the info we have on races that were wiped out in the past.
the race that killed the Derelict Reaper 37 million years ago; Etamisians 20 million years ago; Arthenn 300,000 years ago; Inusannon and Thoi’han 125,000 years ago; the Protheans 50,000 years ago.
All of these (with the exception of the Inusannon and Thoi’han) were wiped out during a time frame that can evenly be divided by 50,000 years. This is to big a coincidence to all be random, unrelated genocide. 

[SpiffySquee]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

My problem is not with the fact ha they are commonly accepted theory, but with you stating them like they are undeniable fact. "We know what happened to the water." "It took millions of years." 
There is a reasons these are called theory.

I take it you don't understand what a scientific theory is.

Web definitionsa theory that explains scientific observations; "scientific theories must be falsifiable"wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
An explanation or idea accepted by a substantial number of scientists.[/list]highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072452706/student_view0/glos…
A hypothesis that is widely accepted by the scientific community.[/list]www.ametsoc.org/amsedu/wes/glossary.html
An explanation of why and how a specific natural phenomenon occurs. A lot of hypotheses are based on theories. In turn, theories may be redefined as new hypotheses are tested. ...[/list]www.ncsu.edu/labwrite/res/res-glossary.html
a statement that postulates ordered relationships among natural phenomena.[/list]farahsouth.cgu.edu/dictionary/
"Science does not assume it knows the truth about the empirical world a priori. Science assumes it must discover its knowledge. Those who claim to know empirical truth a priori (such as so-called scientific creationists) cannot be talking about scientific knowledge. ...[/list]instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/glossary.html
A scientific theory is an explanation or model used to explain observations or experimental results about an observed phenomenon.[/list]bookbuilder.cast.org/view_glossary_full.php
 
Could you please point out which of these allow you to treat a theory as a fact?
[/list]

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 27 juillet 2011 - 11:20 .

[bboynexus]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Very interesting, certainly. I think the Prothean part is spot on or at the very least accurate. Although the part about Cerberus seems to be a bit weak, with that I mean how is it possible for Cerberus to have been cooperating with the Alliance all that time and then suddenly become the main antagonists in the series?

There's more to it all than I've currently posted. You'll see more of it in the next section.

[Kasai666]

Fantastic read. I like all his theories, especially the Cerberus one. He rally opened my eyes about that.

[HBC Dresden]

Gatt9 wrote...

He has interesting theories, but some of them are pretty shaky. His justification of Arrival is weak at best.

First, Soverign's job was to lock down the galaxy in order to isolate the races and splinter their fleets. The terminator offers no such benefit, nor does making it Human help in any way. Given that the Reapers are obviously having a hard time handling the Alliance fleet in ME3, and that they didn't/couldn't lock down the galaxy, it's pretty obvious one Terminator isn't going to do anything meaningfull.

Nor does Arrival help any, it actually hurts. What's the point of the Terminator when the Reapers are already on their way, and will be doing their work long before the Terminator is online?

It's a massive plot hole that really makes no sense, both ME2's story and Arrival. ME3 actually makes the whole thing even more nonsensical.

I would imagine, if you play all 3 games back to back, you end up with a serious feeling that there's no consistency, which really isn't terribly surprising considering that if you get yourself reinstated, you keep introducing yourself as a former specter. Consistency isn't one of Bioware's strong points anymore.

Did you actually read his part on Arrival?! It was all about how the "terminator," as you call it, had nothing to do with bringing the Reapers back (that is what the Alpha Relay was for). The Terminator is part of some other agenda, which he also speculates on.

[Rahmiel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...


Could you please point out which of these allow you to treat a theory as a fact?
[/list]

Any one of them until such time as the theory is invalidated.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  From your statement, you're saying that theories are fact until disproven.  Facts are known as indisputably true.  Truth can never be disproven.  Theories can be disproven.  Therefore, theories cannot be facts.  They should also not be taken as fact either.

Facts do not change over the years, they stand the test of time.  Theories do evolve over time as our understanding increases.

[MGIII]

This was enlightening.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 juillet 2011 - 05:55 .