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[Darius Vir]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

It's surprising the altar still works at all, given Dumat is supposed to be dead since the First Blight.

Wonder if it means something.

I like wild theories, so I'm going to say that maybe the Dark Ritual was used at least once before the Fifth Blight.

(Nodding)

I always thought the Dark Ritual- or at least the magic behind the ritual- HAD to have been used before, all things considered. 

FWIW, the way the First Blight went down and how it ended seem pretty shady to me.  My guess is that the DR was used with Dumat. 

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Darius Vir wrote...

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

It's surprising the altar still works at all, given Dumat is supposed to be dead since the First Blight.

Wonder if it means something.

I like wild theories, so I'm going to say that maybe the Dark Ritual was used at least once before the Fifth Blight.

(Nodding)

I always thought the Dark Ritual- or at least the magic behind the ritual- HAD to have been used before, all things considered. 

FWIW, the way the First Blight went down and how it ended seem pretty shady to me.  My guess is that the DR was used with Dumat. 

Hmmm, I have thought the same thing, that it was used before. 

[esper]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Darius Vir wrote...

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

It's surprising the altar still works at all, given Dumat is supposed to be dead since the First Blight.

Wonder if it means something.

I like wild theories, so I'm going to say that maybe the Dark Ritual was used at least once before the Fifth Blight.

(Nodding)

I always thought the Dark Ritual- or at least the magic behind the ritual- HAD to have been used before, all things considered. 

FWIW, the way the First Blight went down and how it ended seem pretty shady to me.  My guess is that the DR was used with Dumat. 

Hmmm, I have thought the same thing, that it was used before. 

I also think that the dark ritual has been used before, possible even on Dumat, but I am not sure that has anything do with the Altar. If you defile it lot of demons attack and the quest log says something like: The demons in the altar has been killed and there is no power left. 

[Rifneno]

esper wrote...

I also think that the dark ritual has been used before, possible even on Dumat, but I am not sure that has anything do with the Altar. If you defile it lot of demons attack and the quest log says something like: The demons in the altar has been killed and there is no power left. 

I agree. Andraste was the Dumat OGB, but I don't think that has anything to do with the altar still working. The altar could be getting its power from any number of sources.

[Gespenst]

Legacy Spoilers

Corypheus calls on Dumat but Dumat never answers... it could just be some old magic that's powering the alter.

[Kmead15]

Gespenst wrote...

Legacy Spoilers

Corypheus calls on Dumat but Dumat never answers... it could just be some old magic that's powering the alter.

To be fair, he is the god of silence.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Gespenst wrote...

Legacy Spoilers

Corypheus calls on Dumat but Dumat never answers... it could just be some old magic that's powering the alter.

True, yet I got the impression that Dumat if he is still alive wanted Corypheus dead or to take possession of Janeka or Larius which many have speculated is what happened.

I'm not totally convinced a possession happened at the end of Legacy.

[esper]

So many think that it is a possession that it would actually be a good plot twist if something different happened.

[Gespenst]

I'd prefer if it was a possession myself - but I'm not writing the story, am I?

I read that there is an unused line of dialogue in the game files: Varric says something along the lines of "The champion's life was full of unintended consequences" . Maybe they took that out to make it less obvious or because they hadn’t decided what they wanted to happen or changed their mind or it will become active when another DLC comes out (that might be related)...

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

esper wrote...

I also think that the dark ritual has been used before, possible even on Dumat, but I am not sure that has anything do with the Altar. If you defile it lot of demons attack and the quest log says something like: The demons in the altar has been killed and there is no power left. 

I agree. Andraste was the Dumat OGB, but I don't think that has anything to do with the altar still working. The altar could be getting its power from any number of sources.

I think that Dumat's still a dragon and that the first Blight's Archdemon was really Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery. and that Andraste was the Razikale OGB (not as catchy though )

[Gespenst]

Surely not all High Dragons are Old Gods?

[TEWR]

No, but all of the Old Gods were Old Gods. There were 7 Old Gods. 5 have been declared slain, so 2 remain.

[MrProliferation]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Gespenst wrote...

Legacy Spoilers

Corypheus calls on Dumat but Dumat never answers... it could just be some old magic that's powering the alter.

True, yet I got the impression that Dumat if he is still alive wanted Corypheus dead or to take possession of Janeka or Larius which many have speculated is what happened.

I'm not totally convinced a possession happened at the end of Legacy.

I don't know. In the shot where you're about to deal the death blow to Corypheus, you see him look over at Janeka or Larius and you see them go into convulsions right as Corypheus is dying. With Larius it is especially creepy because he goes into convulsions and then is suddenly standing up straight right when Corypheus bites it. To me that's pretty clear. I didn't catch it on my first playthrough of Legacy, but on the second two I definitely saw it, once with Larius and once with Janeka.

I also think it's debatable that Corypheus was hearing Dumat in the first place and not some force tricking him and the other Magisters to free it by lying to them about the Golden City. I think everyone was duped and that there was no Golden City or Dumat, just some kind of force that used the mythology of the Golden City to convince the Magisters to free it.

Modifié par MrProliferation, 09 août 2011 - 06:09 .

[Gespenst]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

No, but all of the Old Gods were Old Gods. There were 7 Old Gods. 5 have been declared slain, so 2 remain.

But aren't all the old gods asleep still? Except the ones who are dead.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

MrProliferation wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Gespenst wrote...

Legacy Spoilers

Corypheus calls on Dumat but Dumat never answers... it could just be some old magic that's powering the alter.

True, yet I got the impression that Dumat if he is still alive wanted Corypheus dead or to take possession of Janeka or Larius which many have speculated is what happened.

I'm not totally convinced a possession happened at the end of Legacy.

I don't know. In the shot where you're about to deal the death blow to Corypheus, you see him look over at Janeka or Larius and you see them go into convulsions right as Corypheus is dying. With Larius it is especially creepy because he goes into convulsions and then is suddenly standing up straight right when Corypheus bites it. To me that's pretty clear. I didn't catch it on my first playthrough of Legacy, but on the second two I definitely saw it, once with Larius and once with Janeka.

I also think it's debatable that Corypheus was hearing Dumat in the first place and not some force tricking him and the other Magisters to free it by lying to them about the Golden City. I think everyone was duped and that there was no Golden City or Dumat, just some kind of force that used the mythology of the Golden City to convince the Magisters to free it.

If you side with Janeka and then betray her just before battling Corypheus you get a different expression on Larius face.  Or I need a new pair of glasses really bad and thought I saw a difference where there may not be one. 

I also think Larius saying thanks for his freedom could also mean freeing him from the song aka his calling, this is the way that I took this.  The calling for wardens has to be painful mental torture.  Hearing that in your head all the time.   For years even.  This would eventually cause your body to start breaking down, in a physcial sense.  Thus the way he walked and talked along with his physcial appearance.  This could also be the reaon that Alistair looks so strange in DA2 because the taint is having an affect on him.

I notice alot of people have not picked up on this, so was Janeka/Larius actually freed from hearing the song?  Larius clearly indicts that he was.   I'd come closer to saying that Janeka was possessed and with Larius I'm not so sure, I don't believe that he was.  Janeka flat out says she wants Corypheus power for herself.  You get this dialogue if you betray her, where before she claims her reaons for freeing Corypheus is to help the Grey Wardens figure out how to end the blights.

I found it very interesting that Larius also states he is going to tell the warden commander of Hawke's help.

Which begs this question....so was Corypheus and the other magisters the ones really responsible for the song instead of the Old Gods themselves? 

This was just something that I picked up on.

What if Janeka actually isn't a Grey Warden as she claimed to be?  What if she was a mage aka seeker from the Chantry.  This would explain the Chantry arriving at the prison and how Cassandra knew about this or got her report. 

The Chantry also knows that Anders (in his story on the pdf on DA2 home page) killed the spy that the Chantry sent to infiltrate the wardens, and Anders killed him and turned into Justice at this point.  This could also be the reason that Stroud let's Anders go and doesn't persue him.  I'm fairly certain the Wardens won't like the Chantry sending spies into their order. 

Edit: for more thought.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 10 août 2011 - 04:25 .

[whykikyouwhy]

That's an interesting take on things. But if that were the case (not saying I disagree - just adding questions as they come to mind), does that mean that the song/calling has stopped for all wardens? If other magisters are still alive but imprisoned, wouldn't they still be adding their voices to the unholy chorus? We know, or can assume rather, that the calling has nothing to do with proximity to the source (since the calling hits wardens wherever they are and drives them to seek out the deep roads)...what then was Larius freed from? Was Corypheus's part in the song just so powerful that it subdued the cumulative calling?

One of the things that Larius comments on is that the prison is broken. That seems to be something Corypheus would be concerned about more than a newly freed Larius. I guess I'm not ready to abandon the possession theory, though I am open to hearing new ideas.

[Rifneno]

Gespenst wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

No, but all of the Old Gods were Old Gods. There were 7 Old Gods. 5 have been declared slain, so 2 remain.

But aren't all the old gods asleep still? Except the ones who are dead.

Presumably.  Some people theorize, and with good reason, that Flemeth may in fact be Razikale the dragon-god of mystery.  Lusacan, the dragon-god of night, is also unaccountedfor.  This of course assumes the five archdemons were accurately identified, which may not be the case.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

That's an interesting take on things. But if that were the case (not saying I disagree - just adding questions as they come to mind), does that mean that the song/calling has stopped for all wardens? If other magisters are still alive but imprisoned, wouldn't they still be adding their voices to the unholy chorus? We know, or can assume rather, that the calling has nothing to do with proximity to the source (since the calling hits wardens wherever they are and drives them to seek out the deep roads)...what then was Larius freed from? Was Corypheus's part in the song just so powerful that it subdued the cumulative calling?

One of the things that Larius comments on is that the prison is broken. That seems to be something Corypheus would be concerned about more than a newly freed Larius. I guess I'm not ready to abandon the possession theory, though I am open to hearing new ideas.

I guess with Corypheus being dead, then I would assume the chorus is weakened.  Corypheus along with other magisters could also be exactly what the achievement for killing Corypheus is, killing the conductor of the song in his area.  Maybe the Magisters being turned into darkspawn was a way for the old gods to heighten the song to other darkspawn in helping them free the old gods.  This goes back to the question are the old gods already tainted?  The lore states the darkspawn taint the dragon when they find them.  Codex could be just the view of the writer and nobody really knows. 

Why would Corypheus be concerned that the prison is broken?  He would want the prison broken to be free.  The idol itself could also be a conductor of the song.  We really don't know what it is expect it is really evil. 

Was Larius the warden commander of Amburg where Bethany/Carver are stationed if wardens? 

With Corypheus dead there is really no need for the prison any longer.  Cassandra says it was destroyed.  I'm wondering if the warden commander of Ferelden is the one who blew up that prison along with their buddy from Vigil's keep.   The more I play da2 the more I see the Warden Commander of Ferelden being in Kirkwall though hidden off screen. 

Which Warden Commander was Larius talking about Stroud/Hero Of Ferelden/Orlesian Warden if a player's warden is dead?

Edit:  More thoughts.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 10 août 2011 - 04:46 .

[Rifneno]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I guess with Corypheus being dead, then I would assume the chorus is weakened.  Corypheus along with other magisters could also be exactly what the achievement for killing Corypheus is, killing the conductor of the song in his area.  Maybe the Magisters being turned into darkspawn was a way for the old gods to heighten the song to other darkspawn in helping them free the old gods.  This goes back to the question are the old gods already tainted?  The lore states the darkspawn taint the dragon when they find them.  Codex could be just the view of the writer and nobody really knows. 

That's a good question...  I would assume the Architect would've mentioned if Urthemiel was already tainted when he dug him up.  But you never know with the Architect.  ...  Bah, now I'm wondering what Urthemiel looked like untainted.  He was the god of beauty, so it should've been awesome.  Aww well.
 

[whykikyouwhy]

@ElvaliaRavenHart - You know, I've been looking at the conductor achievement in terms of electricity, not music. I wonder if instead of the achievement being for *killing* the conductor of the song, it's acquired because Hawke somehow will take over that role or will be controlling the way the song now flows.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 10 août 2011 - 04:36 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

@ElvaliaRavenHart - You know, I've been looking at the conductor achievement in terms of electricity, not music. I wonder if instead of the achievement being for *killing* the conductor of the song, it's acquired because Hawke somehow will take over that role or will be controlling the way the song now flows.

Well key can also relate to music, so maybe Hawke's key (weapon) relates to music too. 

That is an interesting observation on the achievement having to do with electricity.  The blood mage at Warden's keep says the taint has even more potential with blood and electricity being used.

[Rifneno]

I'm all for over-analyzing, but don't forget that one of the achievements is a joke about a professional wrestling storyline.

[whykikyouwhy]

Well, true - but the balance between red herrring and truth is a delicate one. I suspect the truth looks like a herring with an orange hue.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm all for over-analyzing, but don't forget that one of the achievements is a joke about a professional wrestling storyline.

Really, I didn't know this.  Where did you hear this?

[LobselVith8]

Gespenst wrote...

I'd prefer if it was a possession myself - but I'm not writing the story, am I?

I read that there is an unused line of dialogue in the game files: Varric says something along the lines of "The champion's life was full of unintended consequences" . Maybe they took that out to make it less obvious or because they hadn’t decided what they wanted to happen or changed their mind or it will become active when another DLC comes out (that might be related)...

Ironically, that line is more subtle than what was left in the actual DLC storyline.