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Development diary of Trouble in Rainesfere (released)


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#26
Tchos

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Thanks, I'll try that. I wondered what that scratch space was for. I hope this will allow me to select the door that's behind an overly simple collision mesh.

I am indeed toggling off the full lighting, and turning off and back on the "display light maps" button. I was wrong when I said there's nothing there. There is something, but it's very faint. I might need to increase the intensity when it's a baked light.

#27
-Semper-

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Tchos wrote...

I might need to increase the intensity when it's a baked light.


yeah, the intensity of a baked light is calculated wrong by eclipseray. crank it up and also try to light the color. sometimes this helps. it also depends on the base color of your light. if you can't get it right you can always place a additional static light for support which only affects geometry ;)

#28
Tchos

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Day 11:
It turns out the door on the exterior  of the tower that I was having trouble getting up against the wall is  still giving me trouble, because when it's inside the collision mesh of  the tower, you can't click on it to open the door!  This was the subject  of consternation for much of the day, since I couldn't tell why  the door wasn't activating.  I thought I might have misnamed the  waypoint tag, or something like that, and spent some time investigating  that.  It wasn't until I got up to get something to eat that it occurred  to me that it might be the collision mesh blocking it.

I entertained  the idea of putting an invisible placeable in front of it that you  could click on instead, but then the door wouldn't light up when you  hover over it, and it would look strange, so I've spent yet more hours  hacking together an extension for the door frame with what parts are  available in the toolset, made irritatingly difficult by the fact that  you can't do any scaling on the models.  And they didn't see fit to  include something like a simple small stone block to fill in gaps, so I had to make one myself out of planes at right angles.   Complicating this is that the toolset has taken it upon itself to start  crashing on me now, when I use the object list filtering more than  once.  If I could just disable the collision on the tower, for  which I've looked in vain for an option, then I could place some  collision barriers of my own where they need to be, and none of this  would be a problem at all.

Rendering the light maps in Single  Player didn't work this time to stop the explosion of incorrect shadows  for the tower interior.  Interiors are a beast in this toolset.  I  removed the ceiling and tried again.  I actually sighed in relief when  it worked after that.  The design of the interior living space is still  not done, due to the troubleshooting above, and I want to do the final area so I can hook together the quest pieces and dialogue.

Semper told me how to get rid of the collision on the tower, which I rebuilt manually with the terrain collision tool to give room for the door.  Now that I know what that scratch pad area is for, I'll actually put it to some use.   Now you can click on the door.  It's a very poorly lit door, though,  which may or may not have anything to do with the light maps, since  doors are placed in the area designer, and not the level designer where  the light maps are built.  It could be due to the dark sunlight colour I used for this level, with the high ambient.  The extended door frame is unnecessary now, but I don't think it's worth removing it, since I've wasted too much time on that bit already.

Putting  items in chests turned out to be just like adding items to the NPCs' inventories, so  that went fine.  Made a required key for the door and tested that out,  which also worked.

Modifié par Tchos, 04 août 2011 - 02:04 .


#29
Tchos

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Day 12:
Learned how to make a merchant. Used that to make the bartender for the tavern. He sells health and mana potions and injury kits at standard markup.

Posted Image

Started on the catacombs, and did some more design work on the tower interior.

Added a sign to the tavern. Still finding the inventory of models to be far too limited in the area of simple small shapes to use to construct things that aren't provided as a whole unit, like a simple signpost. I have a pole to hold it up, but there's no short length of wood or metal that's really suitable for the horizontal part. Ended up with this. Also, my trees have disappeared from this level in the area editor, and when I try to repost them from the level editor the speed tree packager complains that it suddenly can't load one of the textures that worked fine before.

Posted Image

I was planning to have a job board out in front of the tavern which would be where the player would first learn about the quest, but I don't want to actually give the quest until you talk to the questgiver, so instead I think I'll have the bartender direct the player toward the questgiver.

Discovered that spiderwebs cast solid black shadows when lightmapped. Looks like another job for the scratch space. Or a good argument for not using spiderwebs.

Made trapdoors to get to and from the catacombs, and placed the boss. I'm still fumbling around with things like the doors. It took a couple of tries before I figured out why the trap door was only letting me examine it, and not go through it, when I playtested it. It was because I had selected the appearance "trap door" instead of "area transition - trap door" when I created it. They should have called that something other than "appearance", like perhaps "function".

Posted Image

I have the catacombs set up now, though they're not yet furnished or populated except for the boss area, and they need lighting, too. I'm thinking of having a little cutscene trigger when you enter that chamber, if it doesn't take too much time to learn.

Also corrected some more floating plants. Some of them are very difficult to select.

Worked on the conversations and plot files of the main quest, and journal entries. This part of the toolset is smooth and well-polished. It's a pleasure to work with it.

#30
-Semper-

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Tchos wrote...

Discovered that spiderwebs cast solid black shadows when lightmapped. Looks like another job for the scratch space. Or a good argument for not using spiderwebs.


yeah, eclipseray is a bugged beast. it was provided by bioware and ea shot down the toolset support so they were not able to finetune the script. internally they used a licensed third party renderer.
eclipseray has problems with normal maps, alpha maps, light probes, level chunks of outdoor levels and roof props in small indoor rooms... and lots of other minor issues like intensity, corrupted lightmaps and so on.

thankfully chewy and his gang are working on an external renderer.

btw if you want the prop to be excluded from lightmapping you don't have to use the scratch space. just click the object and set the lightmapping to false within the object inspector.

#31
Elvhen Veluthil

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Tchos wrote...
... made irritatingly difficult by the fact that  you can't do any scaling on the models.


If I am not mistaken, you can do some scaling using Adinos DATool.

#32
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Elvhen Veluthil wrote...

Tchos wrote...
... made irritatingly difficult by the fact that  you can't do any scaling on the models.


If I am not mistaken, you can do some scaling using Adinos DATool.


yup, that's right. but it ain't realtime scaling. with the help of the tool you clone the model and scale it. afterwards you have a dublicated model with a different size than the original one. nwn2 toolset and the elder scrolls construction sets support realtime scaling which is a very helpful feature and far superior.

Modifié par -Semper-, 04 août 2011 - 10:35 .


#33
DarthParametric

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Tchos wrote...

Discovered that spiderwebs cast solid black shadows when lightmapped.


That is because spider webs rely on alpha masking to create the transparency rather than actual geometry. The lightmapper can only generate shadows using geometry, so when it tries to lightmap the spiderwebs, all it sees is a giant block of solid polygons which of course block the light rays and cast a solid shadow. It's the same thing with the ivy models and any other prop that uses a large amount of alpha masking.

#34
Tchos

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I'll go for the solution of setting lightmapping to false for the webs. I was thinking of having ivy here and there for decorations, but I think it could stand to be absent. Too bad about the limitations of EclipseRay. :(

I'll try that DATool for the scaling.

Happy note: the tree problem seems to be resolved.

#35
Tchos

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Blame the forum for this double post.

Modifié par Tchos, 05 août 2011 - 02:42 .


#36
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Day 13:
I rebooted the computer and tried posting again from Single Player, but it still complained about being unable to load the tree texture. It posted anyway, to my relief, and my trees are back in the world.

Worked on the lighting for the catacombs. The spiderwebs look fine now with their lightmapping set to false.

Posted Image Posted Image

Added to the dialogue, journal entries, and plot flags. I think I'll leave the party member names the way they are unless it would seriously disrupt a player's fun to have names like Buffington Healswell or Ailmender or something. I'm not really adhering much to TheDAS, such as it is.

Scripted it so that when you accept the quest you get a down payment of a weapon. Because what good is getting a piece of gear after you've finished the main quest, right?

Did some decorating of the catacombs.

Minimaps have sky blue in any area not covered with ground, regardless of my atmospheric settings. Is manually editing the DDS really the only way to fix them?

Examined Sunjammer's developer demos to see how to make a creature's death trigger a plot flag, and implemented it for the boss. Spent several more hours trying to get a plot flag to trigger when you acquire an item, but nothing was working, despite trying 3 or 4 variations on the script that I found in various places. I was all set to give up on setting that particular plot flag, but I read Sunjammer's summary again, and noticed the bullet point "configuring items to fire the module's "item acquired" event". You have to configure the item? Okay, so I opened the example module again and checked the item. Clicked "variables". Aha! Had to set "ITEM_SEND_ACQUIRED_EVENT" to 1, or it doesn't bother telling the script that it happened! Tried it, finally worked. Yay.

Troubleshooting the conversation for the end of the main quest. I can't seem to get the questgiver to pay the reward money, either by using AddCreatureMoney(40000, GetHero(), TRUE); or  UT_AddItemToInventory(R"gen_im_copper.uti",40000); or even RewardMoney(0, 0, 4); either in the main event script or the NPC script, checking for a case from the included plot flags. It's really just a formality, since the adventure is over and there's nothing to spend it on, but I'd like to know why it's not working.

Aside from that, the main quest and all the plot and conversation stuff is finished. Just need to finish decorating the catacombs (not much left for that), finish the tower living space (boring, but doable), and touch up the first landscape and set the ending event. Also need to fix a room visibility. If I have time in the last day (seeing as we're at the 2 week mark tomorrow), I'll try adding that cutscene I was thinking about, or add a side quest that could be done quickly. Probably the side quest would be the better choice.

Tomorrow I'll read the step by step instructions on the wiki for exporting the module to a .dazip file.

#37
-Semper-

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Tchos wrote...

Minimaps have sky blue in any area not covered with ground, regardless of my atmospheric settings. Is manually editing the DDS really the only way to fix them?


any chance that you still have the skydome model activated for your interior level? if that's the case then select your interior level (on the left side the main level hub. it's the icon with the little green grid, between the globe and your rooms). now within the object inspector you can delete the skydome model by emptying the entry field. now your atmosphere is black which should be reflected in your minimap.

#38
Tchos

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I had tried changing it to a different one, but since it came with one in there, I didn't know you could just empty the field to get rid of it. Thanks!

#39
Tchos

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Day 14:
Finished decorating the catacombs. Rendered the light maps and posted to local. I hope the visibility and connection is fixed between the rooms, because I'm not entirely sure I'm doing that right. Will see in the next playtest.

Working on the tower interior. I split it into 4 areas: Reception area, alchemy lab/reading room, bedroom, and storage. I figure this character doesn't have a serving staff or cook his own food, so he goes to local taverns for meals; therefore no kitchen. Lab is done. Working on the reception area now.

Finished the tower furnishing and lighting, and adding black boxes all around the circumference. Now another long lightmapping process. Read the step by step for making a .dazip while I waited.

Had to re-render a couple of times due to some objects getting pure black shadows rendered on top of them for no reason. Tower done now.

Doing the last pass on the big exterior landscape. Not sure how long that and the local posts took, but it was long enough to prepare and cook a batch of fried potatoes and onions.

Extended the first area, since it was a bit cramped, being my first area. I hope it still looks picturesque. Now for the long posting process. What kills this whole experience is all the waiting. No engine I've ever modded for has made me wait this much. I hope NWN2 is better. It needs an option to play a sound when it's done with whatever it needs to do.

It's getting too late. I'll have to package this up tomorrow when I can write the readme. Didn't have time to add the side quest I had in mind, or the cutscene. There are a couple of scripts I haven't tested yet for the ending event, but I can't test them until all this rendering is done, which I'll let run while I sleep.

#40
-Semper-

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Tchos wrote...

Now for the long posting process. What kills this whole experience is all the waiting. No engine I've ever modded for has made me wait this much. I hope NWN2 is better.


nwn2's got only the baking time for the walkmesh and we're talking about minutes. baking lightmaps is way more complex which sometimes needs hours to finish. every engine with lightmaps has to go through this process. i am not counting the "wasted" hours of my life qradiant and hammer eat up while baking :D

btw the lod creation process of the gamebryo engine (morrowind, oblivion and fallout) plays in the same league. i heard of examples of calculating for days^^

Modifié par -Semper-, 07 août 2011 - 12:21 .


#41
Tchos

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That's good to hear. And perhaps the reason the Gamebryo engine doesn't take this long in general is because objects don't cast shadows at all, which is something I've complained about before.

I'll bet I'm making it take longer than necessary, too, since every time I post to local from Single Player to get the light maps to be correct and water to show up, I still have to post again from my module or my changes don't show up. Must be something I'm missing.

#42
0x30A88

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Perhaps your mod has the layout overriding the original one. Try deleting it from your module and use it while it's in Single Player and copy them over when you're ready to publish it.

#43
Tchos

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Day 15 (last day):
More troubleshooting and re-rendering and re-posting for missing trees, etc.  Not sure what fixed it, so I'll call it voodoo.

Used some alternate approaches to work around some of the issues I was having with the quest resolution and such.Wrote the readme file for posting the mod.

Did another playtest, and found a few more bugs to iron out.  Fixed those, and added some music and sound effects while I was at it.  Found a few more bugs, and did another playtest.

Everything's working now except for the pathfinding in the tower interior.  Keep running through walls even though the pathfinding grid shows  shouldn't be able to, even after multiple complete posts to local and re-exports.  I'll spend maybe another hour trying to fix that, and then make my first attempt at exporting to .dazip and posting.  I'll mention it here when I do.

The problem is that it's ignoring my export of that area, and I don't know why.  I removed the ceiling and reposted and re-exported, and the ceiling is still there in-game, along with the bad pathing.

Edit: Got the pathing working.  Voodoo again.

Modifié par Tchos, 07 août 2011 - 05:39 .


#44
0x30A88

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That's what you get when EA cuts off support for the Toolset after the first update -- Strange issues with strange dissapearances.

Can't wait to try it.

#45
Tchos

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I cleared out both the override folder and the addins folder and installed the mod from the .dazip, and played it through once more to make sure it all works. It does, but something strange happened with the trees. Somehow, it has added a lot more trees into my layouts than I actually placed. This isn't so bad, though some of them are awkwardly placed (there are some right at the edge of the pond, for instance), a couple are slightly off the ground, and the ending scene has gained maybe 4x as many trees. I'm guessing this might have something to do with the workaround for the problem with ERFs not allowing the [filename].gpu.rim files because of the double extension. Possibly I doubled some files while I was manually adding the ones that couldn't be packaged as ERFs?

But it's good enough for release, I say. I'm uploading as I type this.

Unbelievable! The uploader doesn't allow .7z compressed files, and it waits until it's fully uploaded before rejecting it! It's 10 MB smaller with 7zip!

Okay, it's up:
BSN: http://social.biowar...m/project/4951/
Nexus: http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3036

Modifié par Tchos, 07 août 2011 - 07:41 .


#46
0x30A88

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You said you did recommend a mod for not using autolevel. Is it because you haven't used ALTables? If that's the case, I suggest you try to add them in a revision, as they're fairly easy to make when you know the skills', spells' and abilities' requirements and so on.

As for badly placed trees, don't worry, i've seen them in the OC maps, like the second area in the Bercilian Forest.

Am downloading right now, will try them tomorrow.

Modifié par Gisle Aune, 07 août 2011 - 08:53 .


#47
Tchos

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I'd gladly add them. Can you refer me to an explanation of their use?

#48
0x30A88

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http://social.biowar...vel_Up_Template
Explained in great detail. You are using the header file from there, right? Otherwise, you might look in the header code for how to apply ALTable to follower.

#49
Tchos

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Actually, I don't think I saw that tutorial, and didn't use that kind of header. I'll try it out, though. I was manually setting their skills every time I did a playtest. ^_^;

To others in general, I uploaded a little patch due to a missing head morph that a couple of users told me about.

#50
0x30A88

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I found the part in the code for setting it. oFollower is your follower, nAlTable is the ID in M2DA_Base.

AL_SpendAttributePoints(oFollower, nALTable, FALSE);
         AL_SpendSkillPoints(oFollower, nALTable, TRUE);
         AL_SpendSpecializationPoints(oFollower, nALTable);
         AL_SpendTalentSpellPoints(oFollower, nALTable, TRUE);