139 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Rifneno wrote...

Lots of people still on the fence about the possession? The surviving warden is possessed. Trust me. They're not making it jawdroppingly obvious because it's a red herring, they're doing it because they want you to know Corypheus isn't dead. There's few literary moves that audiences hate more than dead characters popping up alive and well. Look at how many people were pissed about Leliana, and really, how many people killed her?

Had I been forwarned about her new anti-mage shtick in "Faith," I would've killed her, too.

Rifneno wrote...

Look at it from the writer's point of view. They wanted to introduce the Corypheus character, and they likely have major plans for him down the road. So he has the survive Hawke. There's a number of ways to do this, but are ways that annoys the hell out of audiences. If Hawke couldn't fight him at all, how asstastic would that be? If Hawke fought him and the battle was scripted so Corypheus wins, people roll their eyes at the stereotypical unwinnable battle. I think they might actually have to pay royalties to second rate jRPG writers for that twist. And let's not forgot that players can be both ridiculously insane and supervillain levels of clever when they're given an "unwinnable" battle. Someone, somewhere, somehow, will often find a way. Plus, why would he leave Hawke alive? So the best way is to have Hawke kick his deformed ass (which probably has a tail) and Corypheus slither away through some magical trick that Hawke doesn't notice. It's perfect. And because Corypheus did it by doing something that only demons and deities have been shown to be capable of, despite losing the battle he walks away looking so badass that a first enchanter somewhere is planning to steal his model for his personal abomination form.

But my original point... they're just trying to tell you so you're not surprised (read: pissed off) later. They did the same thing with Flemeth in DAO.

Doesn't this make Hawke look like an idiot, though?

[Conduit0]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Lots of people still on the fence about the possession? The surviving warden is possessed. Trust me. They're not making it jawdroppingly obvious because it's a red herring, they're doing it because they want you to know Corypheus isn't dead. There's few literary moves that audiences hate more than dead characters popping up alive and well. Look at how many people were pissed about Leliana, and really, how many people killed her?

Had I been forwarned about her new anti-mage shtick in "Faith," I would've killed her, too.

Rifneno wrote...

Look at it from the writer's point of view. They wanted to introduce the Corypheus character, and they likely have major plans for him down the road. So he has the survive Hawke. There's a number of ways to do this, but are ways that annoys the hell out of audiences. If Hawke couldn't fight him at all, how asstastic would that be? If Hawke fought him and the battle was scripted so Corypheus wins, people roll their eyes at the stereotypical unwinnable battle. I think they might actually have to pay royalties to second rate jRPG writers for that twist. And let's not forgot that players can be both ridiculously insane and supervillain levels of clever when they're given an "unwinnable" battle. Someone, somewhere, somehow, will often find a way. Plus, why would he leave Hawke alive? So the best way is to have Hawke kick his deformed ass (which probably has a tail) and Corypheus slither away through some magical trick that Hawke doesn't notice. It's perfect. And because Corypheus did it by doing something that only demons and deities have been shown to be capable of, despite losing the battle he walks away looking so badass that a first enchanter somewhere is planning to steal his model for his personal abomination form.

But my original point... they're just trying to tell you so you're not surprised (read: pissed off) later. They did the same thing with Flemeth in DAO.

Doesn't this make Hawke look like an idiot, though?

Not really, theres no reason for Hawke or anyone else to even suspect that a Darkspawn mage no matter how powerful has the ability to possess another person's body after death.

[LobselVith8]

Conduit0 wrote...

Not really, theres no reason for Hawke or anyone else to even suspect that a Darkspawn mage no matter how powerful has the ability to possess another person's body after death.

Not even Anders, who has been a Grey Warden long enough to have been told about the dreams of Archdemons? And I'd imagine a character acting suspiciously should have alerted Hawke that something was going on, rather than simply having the Champion accept the odd explanation.

[EmperorSahlertz]

What odd explanation? Especially if you brought Anders along, should Hawke accept the explanation that Corypheus was scrambling Larius' brain.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What odd explanation? Especially if you brought Anders along, should Hawke accept the explanation that Corypheus was scrambling Larius' brain.

The explanation that the man so crippled by the taint that every Warden eventually succumbs to is no longer suffering from it because of the death of single darkspawn.

[Dave of Canada]

Hell, if it became unbearable for Anders inside the tower itself, he could very well think Larius / Janeka (who the taint has afflicted for much longer) honestly were being affected much more severely and without Corypheus calling to them they'd be "freed" from him.

That and the Wardens don't know what happens to Grey Wardens who've had the taint for too long, people were like "omfg wtf" in The Calling when they saw extremely tainted Grey Wardens who didn't die in their Calling.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 août 2011 - 11:45 .

[Conduit0]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Not really, theres no reason for Hawke or anyone else to even suspect that a Darkspawn mage no matter how powerful has the ability to possess another person's body after death.

Not even Anders, who has been a Grey Warden long enough to have been told about the dreams of Archdemons? And I'd imagine a character acting suspiciously should have alerted Hawke that something was going on, rather than simply having the Champion accept the odd explanation.

Possession is something only demons and spirits are supposed to be capable of, even the Old Gods can't possess a body that already has a soul(which is why only a GW can slay an Archdemon if you had forgotten) so no, there is no reason for Hawke and the others to question the explanation given for the sudden change in personality.

[LobselVith8]

Conduit0 wrote...

Possession is something only demons and spirits are supposed to be capable of, even the Old Gods can't possess a body that already has a soul(which is why only a GW can slay an Archdemon if you had forgotten) so no, there is no reason for Hawke and the others to question the explanation given for the sudden change in personality.

Besides the fact that it's highly supicious, of course.

[Conduit0]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Possession is something only demons and spirits are supposed to be capable of, even the Old Gods can't possess a body that already has a soul(which is why only a GW can slay an Archdemon if you had forgotten) so no, there is no reason for Hawke and the others to question the explanation given for the sudden change in personality.

Besides the fact that it's highly supicious, of course.

Its only suspicious from the omnipent view point of a player.

[LobselVith8]

It's suspicious enough that Hawke comments on it initially.

[whykikyouwhy]

I would think that Hawke would comment on it, sure. Hawke comments on a lot of things - on one hand, we can look at that as cues to the player. A bit meta, yes, but many things within games are like that - little flags waving and nods of the head. But really, Hawke had spent a good couple of floors of the prison commenting on how "crazy" Larius was, or how addled, so a sudden change in demeanor would warrant a question in the very least.

But what reason would Hawke have to doubt the word of Larius? A man who aided Hawke's father, provided Hawke with some insight into his/her family life, and who wanted to vanquish Corypheus. That last bit alone might allow for the dismissal of any doubt. It's much like "Hmm...ok, you seem different now, but we had a common enemy, right? And the day is done, victory is ours. Let's go have a drink."

That doesn't diminish Hawke's intellect in any way. After all, a lot of strange stuff happens in Kirkwall. At some point, you need to just shrug and move on.

[Macropodmum]

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's suspicious enough that Hawke comments on it initially.

And the explanation he gives is plausible, it is much inline with unmedicated people who hear voices constantly and then noticing a change when medicated.  You also have to remember that all the possesions Hawke has witnessed have been demon possesion, Hawke is not privy to the Warden and Morrigans knowledge of Flemeths body hoppping technique and is therefore in the dark to it occuring with magisters (even Fenris who spent much time with magisters seems oblivious to the fact it can happen)

Modifié par Macropodmum, 08 août 2011 - 02:51 .

[SavesTheDay]

Blacklash93 wrote...

If there was ever any doubt that Corypheus posesses Larius or Janeka, look at the finsher movies.



You see them stumble back and then hold their head in the backround right before he dies.

I'm pretty sure Corypheus's eyes light up when he looks at Larius/Janeka.

[OMTING52601]

Riordan says that the archdemon is drawn to the taint, but that it can only take over the 'empty, soulless vessel' of the darkspawn. The soul of the warden is what vanquishes the corrupted god and ends the blight.

One thing I think everyone is overlooking in the possession/body swap is that we have no reason to assume Cory is, in fact, soulless to begin with. Nothing in the game bible(not talking about books) says that the magisters that sacked the golden city were stripped of their souls by the maker. What it says is that the maker poisoned them for their transgressions and sent them back to the world to spread their taint.

Keeping that in mind, I'm pretty dang sure that Cory's SOUL is what takes over Larius/Janeka, likely displacing their own. His soul needs the taint- playing out some crazy biblical crap that he must suffer until he repents or whatever- but Cory also needs living flesh because he isn't dead, or wasn't dead, he was still very alive and suffering his punishment from the maker(supposedly) trapped in that prison for millenia. Living soul needs a living body, so darkspawn wouldn't do, but since he soul is already tainted, he can't take a 'pure' body. That leaves the grey wardens.

As for Flemeth, I've thought she was an old god since Origins and the whole OGB deal. The idea of her being a magister is a good one. I'll have to think on that.