162 réponses à ce sujet

[Sundance31us]

Even if you don't have Arrival you can still watch a run through on You Tube and get an idea of what happened.

[Trakarg]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

nhsk wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

To clarify, what crime does Shepard even do in Arrival?

He/she ignites a relay, effectively creating a supernova wiping out a batarian colony with around 305.000 batarians in it. To delay the Reapers which are arriving in that system very soon, it isn't to kill batarians but to delay the Reapers that have to use FTL for a year or two more when discovering the broken relay.

That's quite a war crime, and it's very unfair that my planned high paragon Shepard is forced to be guilty of that. I had absolutely no choice in the action and am immediately made some horrible war criminal of the galaxy, which really goes against the character I planned through ME1 and ME2, and I'm sure others feel the same way. Had I been able to make a choice I wouldn't have done the action you're forced to do in Arrival, which is exactly my point. Whether we've played Arrival or not, whether we're paragon or not, we're forced to become a war criminal and follow along with a prologue we can't control.

Oh get over it.  Both my shepards are paragon and they still wipe out the relay gladly.  There is literally no other possible choice besides letting the Reapers reach it and have instant galactic access right then and there.  The year or so that they are delayed allows the galaxy to prepare, at least a bit.  He's only considered a war criminal because the general public doesn't believe in the reapers.

[nhsk]

"Paragon interrupt flashes"

*Shepard kills Miranda and takes the shuttle to the citadel*

Oh hai Anderson, I'm back... Apparently the terrorist group known as Cerberus revived me and wanted me to work for them, I killed their project leader as she wouldn't surrender.. I brought a Cerberus operative alive, say hi to Jacob.. I already called C-Sec to haul his ass in.. What is this I hear about Collectors abducting colonies, want me to investigate?

Modifié par nhsk, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:10 .

[XyleJKH]

I'm sure stuff you have done will be revisited. Like killing a specter, rachni, cerberus involvment, helping break loose a convict, yadda yadda yadda

[upsettingshorts]

nhsk wrote...
What is this I hear about Collectors abducting colonies, want me to investigate?

"Nah."

*Critical Mission Failure*

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

That's quite a war crime, and it's very unfair that my planned high paragon Shepard is forced to be guilty of that. I had absolutely no choice in the action and am immediately made some horrible war criminal of the galaxy, which really goes against the character I planned through ME1 and ME2, and I'm sure others feel the same way. Had I been able to make a choice I wouldn't have done the action you're forced to do in Arrival, which is exactly my point. Whether we've played Arrival or not,whether we're paragon or not, we're forced to become a war criminal and follow along with a prologue we can't control..

Then the Reapers would have Arrived, you would have been killed, and...

*Critical Mission Failure*

They make it explicitly clear that you either do this horrible thing or the Reapers win.  You literally get a mission failure if you fail to complete the objective.  This makes "Reapers win if you don't do this" objectively, explicitly, and indisputably canon.

Your "planned character" was overcome by events.  There is no happy boy scout way to do that mission, and that's the point.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:22 .

[Varen Spectre]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

I'm not sure if I'm the only one who thought this, but I've not been very happy with ME3's prologue. According to information, you begin on Earth on-trial for the events of Aftermath. Earth is attacked by a Reaper invasion as you're there, and you must escape Earth. Now, let me explain why this relatively simply prologue annoys me.

1. This prologue assumes you've played Arrival. This is my biggest complaint. I know I'm not the only one who's never played the Arrival DLC. I have absolutely no idea of what happens and why in that DLC, aside from the fact that Shepard apparently does something horrible to put themself on trial. It's a prologue based on a poorly-reviewed DLC pack that many players never even bought.

2. This prologue immediately makes Shepard a technical war criminal. As I said, I'm not sure what happened in Arrival, but if it's gotten Shepard on trial, then in all technicalities, they're a war criminal. This is a more minor complaint but it still annoys me. In my playthrough over ME1, ME2, and ME3, I've been trying to get a high paragon character. I realize war's not always black and white, difficult decisions have to be made. However, I hate immediately starting as a war criminal on trial, especially considering that for me and others who've not played Arrival have no say in what's going on. We didn't make any difficult decisions, we didn't do any major actions, we're just thrown into some trial that has no real bearing or purpose to our characters, and whether we like that war criminal image or not, it's given to us without choice. This basically throws away the entire high paragon image I was going for, and I'm sure others went for as well. And as I said, I don't know what happened in Arrival, whether Shepard did some huge crime or not, but even if he didn't, being on military trial makes him a war criminal, in a technical sense, and this is an image I personally don't like. However, this wouldn't be a real complaint, since by now it's irreversible, if it didn't fit in with my third point.

3. There are many, many more possiblities as to what the prologue could be. The way I see it, the current prologue is nothing more than an excuse to be on Earth and a cheap reference to an admittedly poor DLC pack. Yet there are so many more ways the game could be started, ways that involve the player more or that were more creative. Instead, it's the same idea we had in ME2; put into a situation against our will, have to escape from an area under attack. Now, ME2's opening was fine, and it made sense canonically why that'd happen. But this, for many of us, won't make any sense, since we never did the actions in Arrival that triggered the prologue. And ME2's intro was totally different from ME1's intro, so why can't we have a new concept for ME3? Why do we have to use the same exact formula from ME2?

The formula: -Arrive/wake up/begin in a strange area, slowly become informed of the plot, initial control tutorials, beginning of actual mission-Enemies appear, fighting ensues-Meet up with people you may or may not know, slowly become more informed of the plot-Escape and ending dialogue, beginning of the game -snip- 

Well, I would like to ask you to attach the sources (articles, videos, interviews, etc. which provided basis for your post) to your statements (especially the bolded ones) in order to add credibility to them as well as to avoid any misinterpretations, acusations or speculations.

I mean, you might be saying the truth... and thus giving us some very interesting "food for thought" but at this point, maybe due to my limited knowledge, I can't be sure that you are not misinterpreting, twisting, adding or omitting anything from originaly provided information. And recently, I have seen a lot posters doing so. So, forgive me, but I am little bit sceptical, whenever I see posts claiming something without backing it up with reliable sources. 

Therefore, in order to keep this disucssion accurate and factual, please do so as soon as you could, so that everyone can focus on substance itself without being affraid that he / she is wasting time on speculations about something what might not even be true. Thanks in advance.

[assassin of Keelah]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

1) Devs have said that if you havent played Arrival, they will introduce another mechanism to get Shepard to go to Earth.
2) See above.
3) See above.

Link please?

[Sundance31us]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Your "planned character" was overcome by events.  There is no happy boy scout way to do that mission, and that's the point.

As in life.

From Arrival:
Shepard: "What alternative do we have?"
Dr. Kenson: "The Reapers will reach this system, regardless. But the Alpha relay is their shortcut to the rest of the galaxy. If you want to keep the Reapers at bay, this relay must be destroyed."
(AT 2:30) 

[Bnol]

They can easily bring us to trial on Earth for any number of reasons. They wanted the prologue on Earth. Shepard committed plenty of crimes in ME2 as other people have posted. Hell, just working with a terrorist group would be enough to haul Shepard in for trial. We don't know that they will "railroad" you into Arrival, potentially it will just be extra dialogue for those who have played it. But honestly, your Paragon Shepard has been forced to do many bad things within the ME2 story.

It seems your issue is just that you don't like DLC because you shouldn't have to pay those developers for extra work. They should give this stuff for free and not reward players that do purchase the DLC.

[ubermensch007]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

I'm not sure if I'm the only one who thought this, but I've not been very happy with ME3's prologue. According to information, you begin on Earth on-trial for the events of Aftermath. Earth is attacked by a Reaper invasion as you're there, and you must escape Earth. Now, let me explain why this relatively simply prologue annoys me.

1. This prologue assumes you've played Arrival. This is my biggest complaint. I know I'm not the only one who's never played the Arrival DLC. I have absolutely no idea of what happens and why in that DLC, aside from the fact that Shepard apparently does something horrible to put themself on trial. It's a prologue based on a poorly-reviewed DLC pack that many players never even bought.

2. This prologue immediately makes Shepard a technical war criminal. As I said, I'm not sure what happened in Arrival, but if it's gotten Shepard on trial, then in all technicalities, they're a war criminal. This is a more minor complaint but it still annoys me. In my playthrough over ME1, ME2, and ME3, I've been trying to get a high paragon character. I realize war's not always black and white, difficult decisions have to be made. However, I hate immediately starting as a war criminal on trial, especially considering that for me and others who've not played Arrival have no say in what's going on. We didn't make any difficult decisions, we didn't do any major actions, we're just thrown into some trial that has no real bearing or purpose to our characters, and whether we like that war criminal image or not, it's given to us without choice. This basically throws away the entire high paragon image I was going for, and I'm sure others went for as well. And as I said, I don't know what happened in Arrival, whether Shepard did some huge crime or not, but even if he didn't, being on military trial makes him a war criminal, in a technical sense, and this is an image I personally don't like. However, this wouldn't be a real complaint, since by now it's irreversible, if it didn't fit in with my third point.

3. There are many, many more possiblities as to what the prologue could be. The way I see it, the current prologue is nothing more than an excuse to be on Earth and a cheap reference to an admittedly poor DLC pack. Yet there are so many more ways the game could be started, ways that involve the player more or that were more creative. Instead, it's the same idea we had in ME2; put into a situation against our will, have to escape from an area under attack. Now, ME2's opening was fine, and it made sense canonically why that'd happen. But this, for many of us, won't make any sense, since we never did the actions in Arrival that triggered the prologue. And ME2's intro was totally different from ME1's intro, so why can't we have a new concept for ME3? Why do we have to use the same exact formula from ME2?

The formula: -Arrive/wake up/begin in a strange area, slowly become informed of the plot, initial control tutorials, beginning of actual mission-Enemies appear, fighting ensues-Meet up with people you may or may not know, slowly become more informed of the plot-Escape and ending dialogue, beginning of the game-


I'm probably just nitpicking, and I really don't have a problem with ME3's planned plot, but it just annoys me that this is how Bioware's chose to start things, with a recycled oepning based on an unpopular DLC item. I should've played Arrival and it's my own fault for not, but it's still unfair that a totally optional DLC pack is the core basis around the plot. By this point, the opening and its aspects are irreversible. I'm not at all content with it, but it's one opening in a larger game, which will be much better, more likely than not, and don't misunderstand me here, I'm not saying the game will be bad based on an intro. I'm just saying, in retrospect, the intro could've been vastly improved over the current concept they're going with, and I was wondering if I was the only one who had a problem with the way ME3 is supposed to begin.

Err... No.You are not the only one...My "Poll" Should Mass Effect 3 have Alternative Prologues? In a way is about this very thing that you speak of in your OP 

Long before the DLC Arrival was released.I was all but sure that ME 3 should begin with Commander Shepard being interviewed by Emily Wong.

The prologues to Mass Effect 1 & 2 were outstanding! By now many of us already know how Mass Effect 3 is suppose to start. But if ME 3 shall have different endings to the saga, then why shouldn't it also have
alternative beginnings?

- A different prologue if you saved the Collector Base or destroyed it.

- A different prologue if you got the Arrival DLC and completed it or did not.

I still personally really like the idea of Mass Effect 3's Prologue being Commander Shepard being interviewed by Emily Wong. Akin to how The Incredibles Animated Film begin except a very serious hard hitting
interview with possible great ramifications dependent upon how much Shepard decides to tell her.

(1) In this interview you could speak well of the Council or tell it like it is

(2) Be Pro Cerberus or Anti Cerberus.

(3) Kick the Alliance in the balls or Kiss their Ass...

(4)
And finally: Do your best to convince the viewing audience of the Reaper War to come.Without coming across as a fear-monger...

And I still think that Ms.Wong having an Exclusive Interview with Commander Shepard is a good way to go...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 27 juillet 2011 - 05:13 .

[ryoldschool]

Kane Corr wrote...

Well...two things:

1) You really SHOULD play Arrival.

2) They are also most likely going to get Shepard on working for Cerberus throughout Mass Effect 2 as well. And probably other things...maybe. Whatever they can fit in there.

Like the man said, play Arrival.  I did not see any reviews, and it was well worth it, even if you are forced to play the mission without teammates.  You guys on this forum read everything about this video game, why not play the game to get the info for yourself.  There is no way you should ignore a story DLC in this series. 

Sorry if this has already been said, there are four pages of posts already.

[littlezack]

Or if you don't want to shell out the money watch a Let's Play. But it's really not that bad - it's not mind-blowing or anything, and I think a lot of the hate for Arrival comes from people expecting ME2 to go out with more of a bang. But it's hardly a pain to play.

[Bogsnot1]

assassin of Keelah wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

1) Devs have said that if you havent played Arrival, they will introduce another mechanism to get Shepard to go to Earth.
2) See above.
3) See above.

Link please?

Having problems finding it. I think its buried deep in one of the twitter feeds.

[JediMaster_Murph]

ryoldschool wrote...

Kane Corr wrote...

Well...two things:

1) You really SHOULD play Arrival.

2) They are also most likely going to get Shepard on working for Cerberus throughout Mass Effect 2 as well. And probably other things...maybe. Whatever they can fit in there.

Like the man said, play Arrival.  I did not see any reviews, and it was well worth it, even if you are forced to play the mission without teammates.  You guys on this forum read everything about this video game, why not play the game to get the info for yourself.  There is no way you should ignore a story DLC in this series. 

Sorry if this has already been said, there are four pages of posts already.

thats one of the reasons i liked arrival so much was the fact you go in by yourself, most dlc no one on sheps squad besides shep says anything, id much rather get rid of the not talking meatbags on dlc 

[ladyvader]

ryoldschool wrote...

Kane Corr wrote...

Well...two things:

1) You really SHOULD play Arrival.

2) They are also most likely going to get Shepard on working for Cerberus throughout Mass Effect 2 as well. And probably other things...maybe. Whatever they can fit in there.

Like the man said, play Arrival.  I did not see any reviews, and it was well worth it, even if you are forced to play the mission without teammates.  You guys on this forum read everything about this video game, why not play the game to get the info for yourself.  There is no way you should ignore a story DLC in this series. 

Sorry if this has already been said, there are four pages of posts already.

If you are on Xbox there is not reason to not get Arrival.  It's the deal of the week for gold members.  Along with Shadow Broker and Kasumi's DLC.  All are 1/2 off I think.  I don't need to get them.  I got every DLC at full price and don't regret it either.  Today I got the lastest Fable III DLC which I was not going to pay full price for and I had my husband use his points to get while I got the lastes DLC for DA2.  Which I've not finished but I am liking so far.

Arrival is quite fun.  Shepard is by themself and kicking some major ass too.  

[marshalleck]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

assassin of Keelah wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

1) Devs have said that if you havent played Arrival, they will introduce another mechanism to get Shepard to go to Earth.
2) See above.
3) See above.

Link please?

Having problems finding it. I think its buried deep in one of the twitter feeds.

If it matters any, I remember a statement to that effect being made as well. If the player didn't actually play through Arrival, getting Shepard to Earth will play out a little bit differently, but apparently the events did still happen.

[ladyvader]

JediMaster_Murph wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Kane Corr wrote...

Well...two things:

1) You really SHOULD play Arrival.

2) They are also most likely going to get Shepard on working for Cerberus throughout Mass Effect 2 as well. And probably other things...maybe. Whatever they can fit in there.

Like the man said, play Arrival.  I did not see any reviews, and it was well worth it, even if you are forced to play the mission without teammates.  You guys on this forum read everything about this video game, why not play the game to get the info for yourself.  There is no way you should ignore a story DLC in this series. 

Sorry if this has already been said, there are four pages of posts already.

thats one of the reasons i liked arrival so much was the fact you go in by yourself, most dlc no one on sheps squad besides shep says anything, id much rather get rid of the not talking meatbags on dlc 

Normally that is true, but LotSB had the best banter in the entire series so far in my view.  Even if it was just Shep and Liara going back in forth.  

[AquamanOS]

Not only do you fail if you don't do anything, you get a special cutscene seeing the galaxy doomed too.

Besides its no different from LOTSB, you don't have a choice on anything you do there either (Vasir always dies, Feron always lives, the hostage is always saved, and Liara always takes over). Only difference is, in Shadow Broker everything goes right for you, while in Arrival nothing does.

[DaringMoosejaw]

There's no point in saying, 'Well, I was Paragon so I would've done /this/ in Arrival!' because let's assume you didn't destroy the relay. The Batarians in the system live - only to face down a fleet of reapers who will destroy/indoctrinate them. They are dead no matter what, destroying the relay prevents the arrival for quite a few months and makes their deaths far better than it would have been.

My only complaint about Arrival is when goddamned Kenson interrupts you while you're warning the system, popping up out of nowhere and whining about you ruining her plans while you're trying to save a few goddamn lives at least. Do the comm stations not come with a '**** you' button?

[AcidGlow]

umm would you kill 300,000 batarians if it stoped the reapers from coming within 2 days? i sure as hell would

[Boiny Bunny]

It's not a matter of 'making the Paragon choice'. The choice is, do the 'bad' thing (no spoilers) and stop the Reapers from arriving, OR, don't, and they do arrive, kill Shepard, and everything else in the galaxy.

The game where you 'don't make the bad choice' does not carry over into ME3 (much like a game where Shepard dies at the end of ME2) - as Shepard is dead, the story ends before ME3 can start.

So whether you like the decision or not is irrelevant. If you are going to play ME3, Shepard made that decision full stop - that's all there is to it.

[hangmans tree]

How about let the reapers come, batarian world will be destroyed regardeless. But letting them arrive would serve as a purpouse:
1. Some batarians might escape/evacuate (which is better than killing all of them on the spot)
2. It would serve as a cold shower for the Alliance and the Council - no more reaper threat disbelief and "dismissed claims"... coz all the time bought by this action (blowing up relay) didnt mean sh!t really - earth is cought unprepared either way.

[Mysten]

marshalleck wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

assassin of Keelah wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

1) Devs have said that if you havent played Arrival, they will introduce another mechanism to get Shepard to go to Earth.
2) See above.
3) See above.

Link please?

Having problems finding it. I think its buried deep in one of the twitter feeds.

If it matters any, I remember a statement to that effect being made as well. If the player didn't actually play through Arrival, getting Shepard to Earth will play out a little bit differently, but apparently the events did still happen.

Imported a playthrough with Arrival:
"Was that really necessary, Shepard?"

No playthrough with Arrival:
"We have your mission report here, it says.... and we've also recovered this video feed from a local satelite showing the destruction of the Alpha Relay before it was wiped out by the resulting explosion. Was that really necessary, Shepard?

That's how I imagine it'll play out at the trial. That or Hackett debriefs you on the way to Earth instead of at the end of the DLC so that you get the option to pick your choice regarding the Batarian colonists and get a quick rundown of the events of the mission similar to Miranda/Jacob's profile background/Virmire/Council chat on the way to the Illusive Man.

Modifié par Mysten, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:33 .

[jmalt4]

Had a good renegade interrupt that I did without thinking in Arrival. /Spoiler I love interrrupting a monologue! ./Spoiler.