230 réponses à ce sujet

[pkmn]

bleetman wrote...

Yes, it makes sense. I'm aware that only being able to buy from one place is never a good thing. And personally, I'd rather give Valve my credit card information than EA, because I just plain trust them not to lose it.

But I tire of this unrelenting attitude that everything connected to Valve is awesome, and everything connected to EA is sinister and manipulative. I can't buy Valve games from other digitial distribution services any more than I as of yet can't order Mass Effect 3 from somewhere that isn't Origin. I don't support either of these situations.

Iused Portal 2 because it just happens to be the most recent. I could've used, say, Half Life 2 instead, and I still wouldn't be able to buy it anywhere but Steam.

The difference is that Valve has always treated PC gamers well. You don't see why PC gamers would be more willing to favor Valve?

EA hasn't treated PC gamers well. Intrusive DRM, SecuROM, and turning Dragon Age (which was supposed to be a PC gamer's game) into a generic console RPG. You don't see why we'd rather not favor EA?

[ejoslin]

I'm not a valve fangirl and I hope I'm not coming off as a defender of all. I just don't like what EA has done in this case -- it's anti-competitive.

Anyway, while you can't buy portal2 digitally from anyone but steam, it is available on DVD so it's not a perfect comparison. It's not as much choice as I'd like (again, I'm not a valve defender at all), but there at least is consumer choice.

Edit: And I will agree that Steam treats its consumers well.  It has a loyal customer base for a very good reason.  I would prefer EA storefront earn my $$ by enticing me as Steam has done rather than by forcing me to buy only from them.

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 juillet 2011 - 02:45 .

[Darth Postal]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
The other games you listed are not Valve games, but games that force you to run Steam even if you didn't purchase it through them.

DA2 is also not EA game, it's BioWare game! But ever since EA consumed BW we, loyal costumers, have to put up with cr*p like Bioware Bazaar, broken forever BW points store, and now this Origin rape.

As for "forced to run Steam", I'll say it again, Steam is a free software. Origin is a store that now has monopoly on lots of games. And monopoly ALWAYS hits custumers' wallets.

I'm not kidding about $200 for ME3. If this whole Origin or GTFO campaighn will keep rolling, EA will be able to put any price they want.

[bleetman]

ejoslin wrote...

Anyway, while you can't buy portal2 digitally from anyone but steam, it is available on DVD so it's not a perfect comparison.

So is every EA game on Origin.

[ejoslin]

bleetman wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Anyway, while you can't buy portal2 digitally from anyone but steam, it is available on DVD so it's not a perfect comparison.

So is every EA game on Origin.

Not the DA2 DLC.  Which is the issue.

Edit: The only way to get Legacy is through EA.  THIS is why Steam has pulled DA2.  EA wants their customers by forcing their customers to buy only from EA.  DA2 itself is available just about everywhere -- so the distributers have to try and win the customers.  Then EA takes the established customers and requires additional content be bought only from them.

Steam is not in the wrong here for refusing to support this. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 juillet 2011 - 02:51 .

[rolson00]

they wont people are only ever willing to spend so much then they look for another cost wise product

[Aaleel]

This may be hard to believe, but I don't use Steam for my PC games. When people say it forces you to run Steam to play your games, does that mean you can't play the games at all, or you can't play them and have whatever features Steam offers?

[bleetman]

I'm sorry, you've lost me. Why mention dvds if this is specifically a dlc issue?

And I'd agree that the situation sucks. I've said as much. But as I've said, I tire of this belief that it's fine for group A to do something, but as soon as group B follows suit they're inherently in the wrong. Both of them are, if you ask me.

Aaleel wrote...

When people say it forces you to run Steam to play your games, does that mean you can't play the games at all, or you can't play them and have whatever features Steam offers?

If the game is a "steamworks" game, either developed by Valve or something like, say, Dawn of War 2, you're required to install, sign up for and have Steam running any time you want to play said game. If you lack internet access at the time, you pray to the stars and hope the offline mode works, something that has become far more reliable than back in 2004, but still tends to botch up for me now and again. Put simply: without Steam, they won't play. Sometimes, they won't even install in the first place.

Is this annoying? Perhaps. It depends on who you ask. I'm personally on Steam most of the time anyway, but there's no shortage of resentment out there.

Modifié par bleetman, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:05 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Darth Postal wrote...

DA2 is also not EA game, it's BioWare game! But ever since EA consumed BW we, loyal costumers, have to put up with cr*p like Bioware Bazaar, broken forever BW points store, and now this Origin rape.

As for "forced to run Steam", I'll say it again, Steam is a free software. Origin is a store that now has monopoly on lots of games. And monopoly ALWAYS hits custumers' wallets.

I'm not kidding about $200 for ME3. If this whole Origin or GTFO campaighn will keep rolling, EA will be able to put any price they want.

Steam is 'free' software that forces me to use it and run it. Because they knew that once someone is forced into putting it there they'll be tempted to buy things directly through them. Its a system that works.

Meanwhile not one game currently forces you to run Origin's free software. Nor does it even have a monopoly on any game. They'd still be selling DA2 on Steam if Steam hadn't pulled it completely on their own. You can still buy DA2 digitally from non-Origin sources. You can still get the game from Gamestop, D2D, etc. Just not Steam. Hardly a monopoly.

The only 'crime' EA is guilty of is not changing their DLC distribution method for Bioware games, that Steam had no problem with prior to EA launching Origin.

[Darth Postal]

Aaleel wrote...

This may be hard to believe, but I don't use Steam for my PC games. When people say it forces you to run Steam to play your games, does that mean you can't play the games at all, or you can't play them and have whatever features Steam offers?

Steamworks games can't be launched without Steam installed on your computer.

[ejoslin]

bleetman wrote...

I'm sorry, you've lost me. Why mention dvds if this is specifically a dlc issue?

You're the one who brought up Portal 2 -- I was just pointing out why it wasn't a fair comparison, that consumers can buy it from outlets OTHER than Steam.  I'm not sure why everyone is bringing up all these peripheral issues to be honest.

Steam is no longer selling DA2 because EA is violoating Steam's ToS by making DLC available only through EA storefronts, which will force Steam customers (well, all customers) to buy the DLC from a competitor.  EA in this instance is acting in a way that is anticompetitive and it saddens me that other consumers seem to defend this.

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 juillet 2011 - 02:56 .

[bleetman]

ejoslin wrote...

You're the one who brought up Portal 2 -- I was just pointing out why it wasn't a fair comparison, that consumers can buy it from outlets OTHER than Steam.  I'm not sure why everyone is bringing up all these peripheral issues to be honest.

Steam is no longer selling DA2 because EA is violoating Steam's ToS by making DLC available only through EA storefronts, which will force Steam customers (well, all customers) to buy the DLC from a competitor.  EA in this instance is acting in a way that is anticompetitive and it saddens me that other consumers seem to defend this.

Fair enough. I honestly brought that up after the "valve don't just sell their games on steam and nowhere else" thing came up, and got a little side tracked. You know how it goes

To be clear - again - I'm not defending this. I strongly dislike this. It's why I'm criticising Valve for doing exactly the same thing, and it annoys me no end that it's apparently excusable in their case because, I don't know, they're nicer people or something.

[Darth Postal]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Steam is 'free' software that forces me to use it and run it. Because they knew that once someone is forced into putting it there they'll be tempted to buy things directly through them. Its a system that works.

Meanwhile not one game currently forces you to run Origin's free software. Nor does it even have a monopoly on any game. They'd still be selling DA2 on Steam if Steam hadn't pulled it completely on their own. You can still buy DA2 digitally from non-Origin sources. You can still get the game from Gamestop, D2D, etc. Just not Steam. Hardly a monopoly.

Are you deliberately misunderstand me?

YES!, no game at this point requires to RUN origin. That's not my point. My point is that EA is clearly aimed to make Origin the only digital distributor for upcoming titles like ME3 and BF3.

When you will wake up one day and see that ME3 is $200 on Origin, you gonna wish you could run free Steam to buy it for $10 on Steam Summer/Christmass/Halloween/Daily/Weekly/Midweek/Over9000 sale!

[ejoslin]

EA will be shooting themselves in the foot is they don't make their games available through other distributors. They do not have the same type of loyalty built up. I mean, why SHOULD someone use Origin? As a consumer? I don't think EA will price themselves out of their market, though. Games are not a required thing. However, I bet you will see their games selling for more initially (we already saw this with DA2 where the digital PC version cost as much as the XBox and PS3 versions though there's no $10 licencing fee associated with the PC version and no packaging and distribution costs).

Ultimately, the market will pay what the market will bear on non-essential items. However, many people like using just ONE client, so EA may be banking on people deciding just to buy things through their client as that's the only way to get the DLC anyway. Instead of, say, getting their customers by having a robust, in-game messaging system or a credit card that gives a fairly nice discount when their consumers buy from them.

I think I'm repeating myself at this point

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:11 .

[Darth Postal]

bleetman wrote...

 I'm criticising Valve for doing exactly the same thing, and it annoys me no end that it's apparently excusable in their case because, I don't know, they're nicer people or something.

But it's true! They are nicer people.

While EA sells couple new skins for ME2 for $2, Valve releases over 150 free updates to TF2.
While EA puts a $60 price on consolized DA2, Valve constantly puts their games on crazy sales.
While EA uses invasive SecuRom with activation limits, Valve only requires you to run free Steam that is more like a service than DRM.
While EA treats non-US custumers like cr*ap by releasing the games they PRE-ORDERED almost a week later than in US, Valve releases all their games the same time worldwide.
While EA forces Origin, Valve is "forcing" Steam Play which allows people to pay once and play the game on Mac PC and even PS3.

This is only a very short list of reasons why most PC games think Valve are awesome.

[Cutlass Jack]

Darth Postal wrote...

Are you deliberately misunderstand me?

YES!, no game at this point requires to RUN origin. That's not my point. My point is that EA is clearly aimed to make Origin the only digital distributor for upcoming titles like ME3 and BF3.

When you will wake up one day and see that ME3 is $200 on Origin, you gonna wish you could run free Steam to buy it for $10 on Steam Summer/Christmass/Halloween/Daily/Weekly/Midweek/Over9000 sale!

I'd say you're deliberately trying to misunderstand.

Origin is not the only digital distributor for upcoming titles. You can pre-order digital versions of Mass Effect 3 and The Old Republic right now from non-origin sources. There is only one Origin exclusive for those titles, and that's the Digital Deluxe. Which is the same price as the Collector's edition with less stuff in it. So not seeing the issue.

Do your really think that you're somehow going to see a $200 version of ME3 when a store bought version would be at exactly the same price as any other game? Seriously? I make this promise to you right now, that should this happen, I will post a thread saying you were completely right.

[Aaleel]

bleetman wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

When people say it forces you to run Steam to play your games, does that mean you can't play the games at all, or you can't play them and have whatever features Steam offers?

If the game is a "steamworks" game, either developed by Valve or something like, say, Dawn of War 2, you're required to install, sign up for and have Steam running any time you want to play said game. If you lack internet access at the time, you pray to the stars and hope the offline mode works, something that has become far more reliable than back in 2004, but still tends to botch up for me now and again. Put simply: without Steam, they won't play. Sometimes, they won't even install in the first place.

Is this annoying? Perhaps. It depends on who you ask. I'm personally on Steam most of the time anyway, but there's no shortage of resentment out there.

Meh.  I had that happen to me with AC2 when their network went down, couldn't play the game.  I can't imagine not having access to my game library if someone's network is down.

[Darth Postal]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Origin is not the only digital distributor for upcoming titles. You can pre-order digital versions of Mass Effect 3 and The Old Republic right now from non-origin sources.

Link please
I want to pre-order digital non-Origin version of SWTOR right now!

[bleetman]

Darth Postal wrote...

While EA sells couple new skins for ME2 for $2, Valve releases over 150 free updates to TF2.

I'm sorry, I have to bite with this one.

£7.99 Team Fortress 2 hats, anyone?

[Darth Postal]

bleetman wrote...

I'm sorry, I have to bite with this one.

£7.99 Team Fortress 2 hats, anyone?

I have over 20 hats and I haven't payed a single cent for them. You can get ANY TF2 item by just playing the game, unlike ME2 DLCs.

[Chromie]

bleetman wrote...

Darth Postal wrote...

While EA sells couple new skins for ME2 for $2, Valve releases over 150 free updates to TF2.

I'm sorry, I have to bite with this one.

£7.99 Team Fortress 2 hats, anyone?

And? You can get the hats ingame already you can buy them if you don't feel like waiting for the hats to drop but either way. Any item in the Team Fortress 2 store is able to be crafted or recieved through normal gameplay. The store really is for people who don't wanna put in the work.


And let me mention. Left 4 Dead free dlc, Left 4 Dead 2 free dlc, Portal 2 free dlc and able to make our own maps now. Hell Counter Strike, Team Fortress 2 and Half Life 2 are still updated and Dragon Age and Mass Effect 1 haven't been updated in a long time. Why must I resort to texmod to fix Garrus's face after so long?

Modifié par Ringo12, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:23 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Darth Postal wrote...

Link please
I want to pre-order digital non-Origin version of SWTOR right now!

My bad. I never did click on the dominating SWTOR pre-order banner Gamestop is currently running. The non deluxe-digital version isn't being offered yet due to early access limitations. But would you like me to link you to the non-origin digital versions of ME3 and BF3 that you mentioned Origin had a monopoly on?

[JabbaDore]

nothing of value has been lost.

[0x30A88]

Will retail games in the future require Origin? I hope not.

I have Origin, for EA happen to see me as a valued Battlefield player...(only 3 hours played on BC2, that's all). I'm going to uninstall it afterwards, for one of these are enough. Not to be some steam elitist, because I am none and have no problems with games that are without connection to any of these clients.

[JabbaDore]

bleetman wrote...

Darth Postal wrote...

While EA sells couple new skins for ME2 for $2, Valve releases over 150 free updates to TF2.

I'm sorry, I have to bite with this one.

£7.99 Team Fortress 2 hats, anyone?

How much free content has BioWare given us lately? Team Fortress 2 is free 2 play now too. Valve will continue to
create new content for their game.  

That working out for you Dragon Age 2 fanboys?

Modifié par JabbaDore, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:41 .