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Steam yanks Dragon Age 2?


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#101
Darth Postal

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Cutlass Jack wrote...

Darth Postal wrote...

Link please ;)
I want to pre-order digital non-Origin version of SWTOR right now!


My bad. I never did click on the dominating SWTOR pre-order banner Gamestop is currently running. The non deluxe-digital version isn't being offered yet due to early access limitations. But would you like me to link you to the non-origin digital versions of ME3 and BF3 that you mentioned Origin had a monopoly on?


I didn't say Origin already is a monopolist, I said "EA is clearly aimed to make Origin the only digital distributor for upcoming titles like ME3 and BF3." and I'm 100% convinced about that. Pulling games from Steam is just a begining...

Also, I can't pre-order SWTOR even from Origin, because EA thinks my country is cr*p and I'm not worthy of paying for their game. That NEVER happened with Valve games on Steam. All their games were available worldwide at exactly same time.

Modifié par Darth Postal, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:38 .


#102
Animositisomina

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The only thing that really concerns me about this is not knowing if I'll be able to receive future patches for the game now or not. From what I'm told, retail patches don't work on the Steam version. So does this mean if they pull the game from Steam, I'm stuck with v1.03 forever?

#103
0x30A88

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Not to critizise Origin more, but multiplying the price by 10 and put NOK behind it does not really seem fair for us Norwegians.

Mass Effect 3 prepurchase 599kr == 111,50$..what...the...****...
Edit, that was the deluxe edition. It seems to cost 59.99$ for USers though anyways, so it's still abomable.

Modifié par Gisle Aune, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:44 .


#104
Darth Postal

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Gisle Aune wrote...

Not to critizise Origin more, but multiplying the price by 10 and put NOK behind it does not really seem fair for us Norwegians.

Mass Effect 3 prepurchase 599kr == 111,50$..what...the...****...


Thank you very much for proving my point!

$200 games era begins today! <_<

#105
Cutlass Jack

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Darth Postal wrote...

I didn't say Origin already is a monopolist, I said "EA is clearly aimed to make Origin the only digital distributor for upcoming titles like ME3 and BF3." and I'm 100% convinced about that. Pulling games from Steam is just a begining...


Except Steam pulled the games, not EA. And they were pulled due to a new policy concerning DLC that they purposely created when Origin started up. They never seemed to have a problem with DLC distribution prior to that.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but was it ever possible to buy Bioware DLC via Steam? Apart from 'ultimate editions' that were all inclusive I mean. I can't recall ever seeing them there.

You're right to think some corporate shenannigans is going on here. But I wouldn't be so quick to point the finger at EA exclusively.

#106
Darth Postal

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Cutlass Jack wrote...

Except Steam pulled the games, not EA. And they were pulled due to a new policy concerning DLC that they purposely created when Origin started up. They never seemed to have a problem with DLC distribution prior to that.


Sign... I'm getting tired of repeting same things... :pinched:

LOTS of game on Steam use U-Play, GFWL and other 3rd-party DLC destribution systems. Yet only EA games get pulled and only after Origin launch.

As a Sith lord, I don't believe in coinsidence :devil:

Anyway, I'm a bit tired of arguing, so I'm shuting up. My position remains unchainged: EA sucks more and more every day.:sick:

#107
Atakuma

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This just sounds like Valve is trying to stick it to EA.

#108
Animositisomina

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Darth Postal wrote...

LOTS of game on Steam use U-Play, GFWL and other 3rd-party DLC destribution systems. Yet only EA games get pulled and only after Origin launch.


Another example would be F.E.A.R. 2. It has DLC you can purchase directly from Steam, but they've not pulled that game or its DLC.

#109
Sutekh

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Gisle Aune wrote...

Not to critizise Origin more, but multiplying the price by 10 and put NOK behind it does not really seem fair for us Norwegians.

Mass Effect 3 prepurchase 599kr == 111,50$..what...the...****...
Edit, that was the deluxe edition. It seems to cost 59.99$ for USers though anyways, so it's still abomable.


Digital deluxe costs 79.99$ aaaaand... 69.99€ wich is 100$. This is just us Europeans being "so nicely treated" by the currency change process as usual. Non-Euro Europeans seem to have it even worse (except for the UK, apparently).

Steam does the exact same for any product it sells, btw. As a matter of fact, everyone does the same. Might be partially explained by taxes, though, to be fair.

Modifié par Sutekh, 27 juillet 2011 - 04:12 .


#110
Piata

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Well, this pretty much guarantees I will never be purchasing Dragon Age II.

Honestly, 3rd party DLC is downright annoying. I had a hell of a time just trying to figure out how to download my ME2 Cerberus DLC. It probably took me half an hour to dig through the forums just to figure out where on earth it was, then download a bunch of exe files and install them. I was two steps away from emailing tech support because I was absolutely lost.

Why can't I install it straight from Steam? Why can't I purchase the DLC straight from Steam?

Contrast this with Civ V where I buy the DLC and it auto downloads.

It really comes down to a matter of convenience. I'm glad Valve is fighting the good fight, even if they have a monetary interest in it. I don't want Origins (it's ****) and I don't want GFWL (it's a steaming pile of ****).

Steam meets all my needs and if it's not on Steam I'm not buying it. If that means no Mass Effect 3 or Battlefield 3, then so be it.

#111
ArmeniusLOD

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That's the biggest problem with Steam's store as far as I'm concerned. Apparently Valve thinks that $1 USD == €1, while current exchange rates are €1 : $1.4519 USD.

#112
Erode_The_Soul

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Bleh.
This isn't such a big deal for me regarding DA2, as I already own it and wasn't too intrigued by the DLC, but I was still holding out hope that ME3 would wind up on Steam. Moves like this quash that hope a little bit each day :(

#113
Merci357

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Sutekh wrote...

Gisle Aune wrote...

Not to critizise Origin more, but multiplying the price by 10 and put NOK behind it does not really seem fair for us Norwegians.

Mass Effect 3 prepurchase 599kr == 111,50$..what...the...****...
Edit, that was the deluxe edition. It seems to cost 59.99$ for USers though anyways, so it's still abomable.


Digital deluxe costs 79.99$ aaaaand... 69.99€ wich is 100$. This is just us Europeans being "so nicely treated" by the currency change process as usual. Non-Euro Europeans seem to have it even worst (except for the UK, apparently).

Steam does the exact same for any product it sells, btw. As a matter of fact, everyone does the same. Might be partially explained by taxes, though, to be fair.


That's the reason why I import almost every game from the UK. It's funny that you get retail games incl. shipping for 30-35€ at release day, but when using steam you have to pay 45-50€ (I'm german, but I guess it's the same price for the whole Euro region?).

As long as this disparity is there, I use steam just for a few indy games (or very old games) on super sale days.

I'd prefer to have my whole game collection on one platform, but honestly, as long as digital distribution is far more expensive then retail games, that won't happen for me anytime soon.

#114
AloraKast

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@Jcarlo

Aye I think you have the right of it. Also with respect to the whole DLC/microtransaction issue; over the last few years especially this practice has grown at an alarming (and really, a ridiculous) pace. I don't mind a game developer producing a good quality and lenghty expansion to a game that is successful with the fans, because as a fan, of course I would love nothing better than to continue my adventures in that game world.

The problem arises with the introduction of DLC - which in my mind are small addons to the main game, ranging from a new campaign quest (with a possible side quest or two)... to a few weapons and/or gear. You can call it DLC or addon but generally it's short in length (providing perhaps 2 or 3 hours of adventuring on average)... and the developer continues to churn out these pieces of DLC and charging however much they want for it.

I do miss the days of when the game was released in FULL with possibly a full expansion later down the line, instead of just the SHELL of the main game, followed by a slew of varrying quality of DLCs/addons and whatnot. This point was especially driven home for me with the release of DA2 and the day 1 DLC - Sebastian. It was SO obvious that that particular DLC was actually part of the main game... it hurts for me to even think of it as DLC. Bioware's reasoning was that due to time limits, they had to leave 'hooks' in the main game, so that they could insert the Sebastian material (like, companion banter, for example). I do not understand that. It was so obvious that that material was actually part of the main game. And I don't understand the time limit argument, because Sebastian was available on the very same day as the main game launched. So what gives? Unless you got the Signature Edition, you had to fork over - what was it? $10 or $7 - to enjoy material that was supposed to be part of the main game in the first place!

I have been trying to comprehend the idea behind these DLCs/microtransactions and have been unable to come up with anything beyond the developers continuing to punish the consumers by producing less and less content (as in the main game) and charging them more and more. Before long, we will have to shell out $60 for Act 1 of the main game... followed by another $60 for Act 2 of the main game, etc.

So what can we, as consumers, do about this? Judging by the trends in the industry, there is always an option of waiting a full year (or perhaps more) for the Game of the Year/Ultimate Edition of the game to be released before actually purchasing the game. That way we ensure that we get all of the content in one nice package for the (generally) same price as we would have to pay for the shell of the game on launch day and also ensure that most of the main bugs have been addressed with any patches. But there are two problems with this route. One, there are no guarantees that the developer WILL actually release all of the content in one nice package. Two, with our beloved titles being hyped so much as well as our own inherent impatience, could you wait a year or more for Mass Effect 3 to be released in one nice package (which is not guaranteed in the first place) while the main game is available to you to either download or on the store shelf in your neighbourhood?

*sigh* I admit, I am as guilty as anyone of buying some DLC on release day and thus supporting the mindset that DLCs are the way to go. Although I have become more cautious lately, both due to this latest trend in the industry that I do take offence at AND because of DA2 being a disappointing experience for me (after having jumped through the pre-ordering hoop for the first time even as well as the multitude of bonus item promotions). I have yet to decide on Legacy, despite it getting generally good fan reviews, because I am unsure whether I wish to continue to support DA2 (the product that in my view is a bit low on the list of things I wish to support) and because I certainly do not wish to continue to support this DLC/microtransaction trend. So I do not yet know whether I will actually get to experience any of the DA2 additional content that I have to pay extra for. Since I have already bought the main game, spent my $60, I most certainly do not wish to spend another $60 for a package with the main game and all the additional content, which may or may not appear some time in the future. I mean, why pay for the main product twice, right?

eh, I know that I will be spending my money on ME3, that's a given. Depending on how that experience plays out, I will be in a better position to form an opinion on whether to grab any additional content that may come for ME3. And after that, I will have to take a long, hard look at any games/developers who are known for their affair with DLC and decide whether my love for and enjoyment of their games outweigths my distaste for additional content I have to pay for AFTER spending money on the main but stripped game. Perhaps it's time to look into the smaller developers?

Ah, that is why I LOVE The Witcher 2 and CD Projekt so much. Yes, they have DLC/additional content that didn't make it into the main game by the deadline... but they offer it for FREE!

PS. I bought my copy of The Witcher 2 specifically from GoG because I wanted to support the DRM-free option they offered.  I could have easily gotten it from Steam, where I have a sizable collection of games but I put my money where my mouth is... and more importantly, where the trends I wish to support are... and you know what? The decision couldn't have made me feel better even if I tried. Instead of leaving that bad taste in my mouth or that feeling of being taken advantage of when it comes to my experience with the latter DA:O DLCs or the whole pre-order and bonus items for DA2.

Edit: fixed some typos, added a PS and apologies for the rant.

Modifié par AloraKast, 27 juillet 2011 - 04:34 .


#115
Travie

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Hah! Steam vs EA?

Yeah... that will be a hard choice. /sarcasm

EA already has a bad reputation for service, now it will just get worse.

#116
Atakuma

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Travie wrote...

Hah! Steam vs EA?

Yeah... that will be a hard choice. /sarcasm

EA already has a bad reputation for service, now it will just get worse.

Steam pulling EA games seemingly out of spite, doesn't really have anything to do with EA's service.

#117
AloraKast

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Sorry for peeping up again, but I just had a thought...

What is preventing companies like EA from reaching some kind of a compromise with the consumers?

For content that was meant to be part of the main game but, for whatever reason (generally time constraints), it wasn't and had to be offered as DLC (be it Day 1 or otherwise) why not offer it to your fans for free and any additional content that follows later and wasn't actually meant to be part of the main game to be offered to the fans for a price?

Or offer the content that was meant to be part of the main game but didn't make it in in time for free and instead of producing a number of these short DLCs, why not focus your attention on producing a solid, good quality and lengthy expansion that you can charge $20 - $30 for? I understand the concept of not putting all your eggs in one basket but (generally) the fans that enjoyed the main game will also enjoy the expansion, if it's of the same or better quality as the main game... In some instances, even people who didn't enjoy the main game experience are willing to give the expansion/additional content a chance (as we are seeing with Legacy).

So what is preventing the industry leaders from reaching that compromise with the consumers? Of course, other than the old fashioned greed?

A little bit of consumer goodwill goes a looong way... but everyone has their limits.

#118
Travie

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Atakuma wrote...

Travie wrote...

Hah! Steam vs EA?

Yeah... that will be a hard choice. /sarcasm

EA already has a bad reputation for service, now it will just get worse.

Steam pulling EA games seemingly out of spite, doesn't really have anything to do with EA's service.


Obviously not, and thats not what I was implying. 

Pulling EA's products from steam will not hurt steam in any way, it can only hurt EA.

#119
Jcarlo123

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Unless you got the Signature Edition, you had to fork over - what was it? $10 or $7 - to enjoy material that was supposed to be part of the main game in the first place!


Which is basically the whole point of Day 1 DLC. Bioware isn't the only one that does this, but companies need a reason to charge an extra 10-20 dollars for the Special Edition beyond the already absurd 59.99 price tag for the standard edition. So they cut out a portion of the game from the standard edition and re-insert it into the "Special Edition" so that gamers will feel justified in paying extra for  "special edition" content that should have been in the game anyway.

Personally, I don't mind piddly little bonus weapons and stuff as promotional items on Day 1, but there is absolutely no excuse for whole sections of the game (and characters) to be released as day 1 DLC. It's such a blatantly cynical marketing tactic that I'm really shocked as to why it works so well and why consumers haven't told companies that do this sort of thing to stick it. As I said, though, it only works because people fall for it. Developers would drop the DLC model in an instant if people quit buying them, but someone must be buying them or they wouldn't be doing it.

Modifié par Jcarlo123, 27 juillet 2011 - 05:35 .


#120
Piata

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Atakuma wrote...

Steam pulling EA games seemingly out of spite, doesn't really have anything to do with EA's service.

Spite? If EA's games violate Steam's ToS then there's nothing spiteful about it. Valve has a vision in mind for Steam and if EA doesn't want to be a part of it, that's their choice.

#121
Cutlass Jack

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Piata wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Steam pulling EA games seemingly out of spite, doesn't really have anything to do with EA's service.

Spite? If EA's games violate Steam's ToS then there's nothing spiteful about it. Valve has a vision in mind for Steam and if EA doesn't want to be a part of it, that's their choice.


If Steam changes its ToS to mess with EA's competing service, then its spite. (or more properly, a business move) The timing of the policy change was a bit obvious. But you're right. Valve does have a vison and it doesn't include Origin.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 27 juillet 2011 - 06:19 .


#122
Jarate

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Cutlass Jack wrote...

Piata wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Steam pulling EA games seemingly out of spite, doesn't really have anything to do with EA's service.

Spite? If EA's games violate Steam's ToS then there's nothing spiteful about it. Valve has a vision in mind for Steam and if EA doesn't want to be a part of it, that's their choice.


If Steam changes its ToS to mess with EA's competing service, then its spite. (or more properly, a business move) The timing of the policy change was a bit obvious. But you're right. Valve does have a vison and it doesn't include Origin.


Yeah - I'm personally really happy that Valve is doing everything they can to throw a monkey wrench in EA's plans, because EA has a track record of not being able to secure user data. They aren't cut out to make a Steam clone.

#123
xkg

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I've just compared the prices - Steam vs Origin - every single game on Origin is cheaper.
So I should care about Steam exactly why ?

They are reaping most of the Europe with their ridiculous EUR=USD so they can even go down for all i care.

#124
xkg

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Gisle Aune wrote...

Not to critizise Origin more, but multiplying the price by 10 and put NOK behind it does not really seem fair for us Norwegians.

Mass Effect 3 prepurchase 599kr == 111,50$..what...the...****...
Edit, that was the deluxe edition. It seems to cost 59.99$ for USers though anyways, so it's still abomable.


No idea why it cost so much in Norway.
Here on Origin ME3 Deluxe edition cost 219 pln = 79 $

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#125
aries1001

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The prices for Europe at Steam includes VAT as well as take into account the higher costs for the game etc. etc. in Denmark, VAT is 25% of the game's price. In the US VAT is added after you've bought the game.

As for DLC, today a game is locked down at least three months before the game is actual released. To make day 1 DLC makes sure that the team behind the game keep their jobs instead of being fired, and then re-hired again. It means better production value for the developer as the developer will be able to plan better ahead for both the dlcs and the next game. And this continuity is actually better for uis gamers as we get developers that's tied to a certain developer all the time; Bioware in this case.