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We Can't Save Earth, We Can't Beat the Reapers


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#1
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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It has occurred to me that humanity at least is doomed no matter what we do. I would like to point you all towards a specific planet... it was... ah yes, this one.

Mass Effect Wikia says...

Eingana is a hot, beautiful, and deadly world, covered with the debris of ancient starships. Approximately 127,000 years ago, a series of battles were fought over it by two organic species, the thoi'han and the inusannon. Although no records of the conflict remain, most historians agree that both races wanted to colonize Eingana, and neither were willing to share. The two lost hundreds of ships in a series of battles over Eingana and its moon, Barraiya; many of these were eventually pulled in by the planet's gravity well.

The mass effect drive cores of these ships broke apart, dumping refined element zero over large stretches of the landscape. This poisoned the environment and a wave of extinctions followed.
Many of the animal species that remained showed a tendancy to develop biotic powers. As the ecology of Eingana is energetic and aggressive, this makes colonization a deadly peril.


The implications should be obvious, but I suspect I need to spell it out anyway.

Reapers contain massive drive cores of their own, and what fuels drive cores? Element zero, of-course.

So what will happen if we destroy hundreds of Reapers on or in orbit over the Earth? The same thing that happened on Eingana will happen on Earth. Refined element zero will poison the environment and wipe out much of the life there. The effect will likely be much worse on Earth because Reapers likely carry drive cores much larger than anything the races fighting over Eingana used, meaning a hell of a lot more eezo is going to rain down on the planet.

Earth will become a wasteland with most species on land and in the water dead, including plants. This means
we won't be able to grow any edible food there. If the planet can't support life it certainly can't support industry and with that goes the human economy and along with it our military standing.

Someday the Earth will probably recover, but that could take tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years. It might even take many millionsof years depending on how catastrohpic and total the die-off is. Humans
can't afford to wait around that long.

Obviously, Earth isn't the only world in peril.



WE CAN'T HOPE TO BEAT THE REAPERS IN A WAR


Let me give you a run down of why.

Firstly, as the codex will tell you, in space-borne combat the combatants can flee at any time. If at any point one side feels it is losing the battle it can turn tale and run away. It can do this infinitely. This is especially true of the Reapers.

Codex: Space Combat

Most ship-to-ship engagements are skirmishes between patrol vessels of cruiser weight and below, with dreadnoughts and carriers only deployed in full-scale fleet actions. Battles in open space are short and often inconclusive, as the weaker opponent generally disengages.

Once a ship enters FTL flight the combat is effectively over; there are no sensors capable of tracking them, or weapons capable of damaging them. The only way to guarantee an enemy will stand and fight is to attack a location they have a vested interest in, such as a settled world or a strategically-important mass relay.


There is a key difference between us and the Reapers though. Any enemy we fight will, somewhere, have some sort of planet/moon/asteroid based assets to defend. Thus we can assault their planets to earn a victory if we must.

With the Reapers however this is not so. They have no planetary assets that they must defend. The Reapers are self sufficient, space-borne intelligences. It has been pointed out that they want the Earth and while this may be true, I guarantee you that they want their own continual survival even more than that. Assuming we successfully rally the galaxy to come and get their people killed to save our planet this offers no promise of victory against the Reapers. As soon as they realize the battle is turning against them (assuming that it does and that they don't just
obliterate every fleet in the galaxy), the Reapers will flee.

They'll fly up, abandon the Earth, and disappear in to the vast Milky Way galaxy. Maybe some aliens will get smart and blow up the Charon relay, isolating the Reapers in our cluster. This might buy the galaxy some time, but they'll never have any hope of winning the war.

The thing is, the Reapers don't need to capture any planets besides Earth. All they have to do is drop in out of FTL near a planet and bombard all of its inhabitants into ash. They can do this again and again on every populated world in the galaxy until none remain.

Whether it takes decades or centuries in time every race in the galaxy will be exterminated and any human survivors will be cultivated into a new Reaper.

The only remote possibility of victory is if we wait until all of the Reapers are busy harvesting Earth and then blow up the Charon relay. Theoreticaly the shockwave would overtake the Earth and destroy all of the Reapers before they could flee. After all, it is safeto assume that shockwave is travelling at the speed of light, or near it, or even faster than that. There is no way to avoid it unless you know ahead of time that it is coming. The Reapers could do this. If they have quantum entaglement devices installed in the relays (or at least in the Charon relay) they would know immediately that it had been destroyed and may be able to flee to avoid the shockwave. This is quite likely considering how trivial and widespread quantum entaglement technology is for the Reapers. The Collectors and Saren were riddled with it and the implants 'given' to Paul Grayson were linked to the Reapers in this way.

Now, assuming this isn't necessary and Shepard discovers some miracle that can defeat the Reapers, it will still be a hollow victory in some respects. The inescapable fact is that we will ALL BE CONSUMED BY REAPER TECH ANYWAY! Their technology will not vanish, it will instead be laying around for everyone in the galaxy to scoop up and reverse engineer. Terrifying things like indoctrination and quantum-entaglement devices will proliferate throughout the galaxy. One way or another, we will all become Reapers.


WE MUST JOIN WITH THE REAPERS

It is our (humanity's) only hope. When we lose Earth we will lose most of humanity, leaving too few humans to build a new Reaper with. We'll be stranded in a hostile and callous galaxy that will be eagerly working to reverse engineer Reaper technologies and their much larger and healtheir economies will ensure that they succeed long before we do (even with the Collector base). As they unlock the secrets of Reaper tech they will join in union with it
and change... becoming unrecognizable to us and at that point they may do whatever they want with us. Our fate will be beyond our control.

Joining with the Reapers now, while they can still create a Reaper for us, is our only hope. It is a not a fate I'd have ever wished for humanity, but it is one we can choose for ourselves, even if reluctantly, as opposed to one left up to outsiders. I think the Illusive Man and Cerberus understand this and this is why they have decided to join the Reapers.

The war was lost as soon as the Reapers descended upon the cradle of our species.

However we will survive, we will continue. Our legacy will not end.

Humanity will be reborn, unified at last in a single form, many voices, but a single mind, a single will.

A nation, sovereign, free of all weakness, and... eternal.

Modifié par Saphra Deden, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:08 .


#2
nhsk

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Cool story bro

"Today we celebrate our independence day" (im not from america)

#3
Bogsnot1

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So, by your theory, the Citadel is a desolate wasteland that is completely uninhabitable due to Sovereigns guts being spilled all over it?
I'll cross it off my holiday destination list.

#4
asdfasgasd

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Well done, gent! Your post was a beautiful transition from survivalism into Reaper propaganda. I'm saving this post. :P

#5
Dreadwing 67

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Bogsnot1 wrote...

So, by your theory, the Citadel is a
desolate wasteland that is completely uninhabitable due to Sovereigns
guts being spilled all over it?
I'll cross it off my holiday destination list.


My favorite store was on that citadel

Modifié par Dreadwing 67, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:15 .


#6
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Bogsnot1 wrote...

So, by your theory, the Citadel is a desolate wasteland that is completely uninhabitable due to Sovereigns guts being spilled all over it?
I'll cross it off my holiday destination list.


The Citadel is a "destolate wasteland" via' its very nature as a space sation. Life cannot survive naturally on the Citadel. In order to live there a complicated life-support structure needs to be maintained, which inlcudes keeping out vacuum. In the process that would keep out much of the eezo. Not to mention the negligable gravity in the center far from the ward arms would mean that the eezo particles would take a lot longer to reach the station.

Even if they did the station is mostly air-tight. Only a few areas of the wards would have any chance of exposure.

This is obviously not the case with Earth considering it is a planet and not a sealed space station.

#7
Dreadwing 67

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I'll fight with sticks and stones before i surrender

#8
Praetor Knight

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I volunteer the dwarf planet, Pluto, to make the ultimate sacrifice.

#9
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Praetor Shepard wrote...

I volunteer the dwarf planet, Pluto, to make the ultimate sacrifice.


What does that even mean?


Also, why is the coding on this forum such a chore?

#10
Saaziel

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I'm no astronomer (though i like to play one on the internetz),

There are more planets in our galaxy than there are grains of sands on the beaches of earth. Its doubtful that the Reaper forces could turn to waste all those planets. Moreover we could always Quarian are way to survival and live in ships.

As for defeating the Reapers; Well, i killed one already , perhaps you didn't. We'll do just fine... I'll do just fine , either way its going to be fun.

#11
Raiil

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Er, I don't know if being turned into a giant hot pocket for the Reapers qualifies as saving the human race... we'd just look like a rejected concept art from the Terminator series, at least if Reaper baby is anything to go by.

The alternative, turning into the next generation of Collectors, isn't much better. The genetic changing is so severe that we'd probably end up looking like a platypus or something.

#12
Chala

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Look at this...
A human Saren...

#13
Praetor Knight

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I volunteer the dwarf planet, Pluto, to make the ultimate sacrifice.


What does that even mean?

Using Pluto to slam into the Charon Relay of course.


Also, why is the coding on this forum such a chore?

I often wonder that myself.

#14
SerraAdvocate

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I could definitely see TIM going for this plan.

#15
KingNothing125

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OP is clearly indoctrinated.

#16
Elessara

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So if we can't possibly win then what's the point? Why play the game? Heck why even make the game? Guess we should just tell BioWare to stop making ME3, we can't win so there's no point.

#17
ThanesSniper

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I don't think the Collectors are really preserving the Prothean legacy, so I have no reason to believe that joining the Reapers would preserve the Human legacy.

Do what you want to in your game, but I'll just go with the deus ex machina Bioware invents and destroy the Reapers in mine.

Modifié par ThanesSniper, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:33 .


#18
ISpeakTheTruth

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There are at least two problems with your idea.

1) That technology has advanced alot since that planet and there could very well be ways of cleaning up Element Zero which that planet didn't have at the time.
2) The fighting could take place all across the solar system and not just dirrectly around Earth because that would make for a very crowded battlefield so if we win than we'd have all the time in the world to make sure the dead reapers didn't fall into our planet's pull.

Finally you want to turn humanity into 'Gerber's human stew' for baby Reapers? How can you claim to be in favor of humanity while advocating humanity's extinction in exchange for the next breed of Reapers looking vagely human in appearance? I'm sorry but I reject this line of thought, even if it poisoned the Earth and we had a weakened humaity that is far better than allowing humanity to be sucked up like like a milkshake for beings that bring genocide to every specie that has ever or will ever exsist.

Humanity has the benefit of being fast developing. We became a Council specie and one of the most powerful and influencial species in the galaxy all in less than a hundred years. Sure humanity may have it rough for a while but I have faith in the human spirit and determination to recover that we would eventually become strong again. I'd rather endure than give up and die but that may just be me.

#19
CrAzInAtOr

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I'm going to go the other direction and about half-disagree with your post.

Great post, great thought, and really hard to argue with. But the one thing that will keep the Reapers from fleeing even in imminent destruction is their unrelenting pride. Harbinger claims they can never be beaten, no matter what. So you could destroy a thousand Reapers and Harbinger would still be prideful and unrelenting.


I say this is what they can do to save the ultimate and utter destruction of the Milky Way civilization

1. Leave Earth to its' destruction. You said it yourself, destroying the Reapers onearth would a. Qucikly eradicate all life on the planet or b. People harvest the Reaper technology and become indoctrinated. It's a lose-lose situation for trying to save Earth, and the best thing you can do for the entire galaxy is leave Earth to it's destruction

2. As Earth is being harvested, destroy the Charon Mass Relay. As you had also said before. That shockwave caused by the destruction of a mass relay has to travel at the speed of light, if not faster. I doubt the Reapers (no matter what technology they have) would be able to overcome and escape a blow like that.  And then, all that Reaper technology is lost within the destroyed solar system that would take any willing scavenger years to find, and dissuade them from even trying to search for it.


So the only way that we can defeat the Reapers and have total victory...is the sacrifice of the human homeworld. (not necessarily the human race) Humans would become an endangered species, but this conflict goes beyond the scope of humanity. That's what Shepard was thinking when he blew up the batarian homeworld and sacrificed hundreds of thousands of people. Let's hope that they realize that the only way for the galaxy to survive is through wide scale sacrifice.

There is no other option, you laid it out well in this post.

#20
Bogsnot1

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

So, by your theory, the Citadel is a desolate wasteland that is completely uninhabitable due to Sovereigns guts being spilled all over it?
I'll cross it off my holiday destination list.


The Citadel is a "destolate wasteland" via' its very nature as a space sation. Life cannot survive naturally on the Citadel. In order to live there a complicated life-support structure needs to be maintained, which inlcudes keeping out vacuum. In the process that would keep out much of the eezo. Not to mention the negligable gravity in the center far from the ward arms would mean that the eezo particles would take a lot longer to reach the station.

Even if they did the station is mostly air-tight. Only a few areas of the wards would have any chance of exposure.

This is obviously not the case with Earth considering it is a planet and not a sealed space station. 


I suggest you watch Sovereign exploding, and then have another chat wth Anderson in ME2 about Sovereign. Pay attention to the amount of damage that was caused. Refined Eezo would have made its way into the various life support systems, and been circulated throughout a good portion, if not the majority, of the Citadel.
Presidium was point blank for the explosion, yet everything seemd to be fine, with trees growing, lovely waterfalls, and healthy people from all species wandering around without a care in the world.

After 10 years, the region surrounding the Hugo Gernsback (Jacobs LM) should have been a wasteland, but it looked lush and verdant to me.
And of course, theres Thessia. 

#21
shepskisaac

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Praetor Shepard wrote...

I volunteer the dwarf planet, Pluto, to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Hasn't it suffered enough? Leave Pluto alone!!!11

#22
Kane Corr

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"Cannot be stopped...CANNOT BE STOPPED!"



Can anyone guess the reference? Because this OP post reminded me of this specific scene.

(It's in Mass Efffect 1)

#23
SJK93

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Kane Corr wrote...

"Cannot be stopped...CANNOT BE STOPPED!"



Can anyone guess the reference? Because this OP post reminded me of this specific scene.

(It's in Mass Efffect 1)


The Prothean message on Ilos.

Do I win anything?

#24
Kaiser Shepard

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Planets entries are just flavor text, and not meant to be taken as canon unless reinforced by ingame dialogue.

#25
Humanoid_Typhoon

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Praetor Shepard wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I volunteer the dwarf planet, Pluto, to make the ultimate sacrifice.


What does that even mean?

Using Pluto to slam into the Charon Relay of course.


Also, why is the coding on this forum such a chore?

I often wonder that myself.

That will blow up Sol not just Pluto...