2463 réponses à ce sujet

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

You say consumed by Reaper Tech.

Look up "technological singularity" to understand what I mean.

Okay, that wasn't in the OP.

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I doubt that the Reapers would feel that threatened by "lesser beings", and Space Combat will be a concern for the Wolf Pack flotillas that would attempt engaging the Reapers.

The Reapers are not stupid or suicidal.

I wonder if they have emotions, and with how they have operated so far, I don't see how they can't be taken advantage of.

Praetor Shepard wrote...

And why do you assume we aren't reading your posts?

You keep asking questions I've already answered and proposing strategies I've already countered.

I've said why destroying the Charon relay may fail or not destroy any Reapers in this thread and in the previous one.

Right and then I gave evidence as to how that explosion can destroy them, that you did not counter.

Why can't a carrier move faster than fusion torches or the spare part engines from the Project?

And then I even contested you QEC hypothesis as being impractial for the entire Reaper fleet. There are limits to sensors even if Reapers are more advanced then us. You brought it up with the Codex entry in your OP.

[Pride Demon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I've said why destroying the Charon relay may fail or not destroy any Reapers in this thread and in the previous one.

I actually proposed faking the blow up system strategy...
The Reapers will notice and either evacuate the system or move in to stop the "plan", either way they'll go off world...
And then we'll see: I don't know how we may destroy them, but if anything they won't be cluttering our planet with scraps and eezo...

[Jake505]

Well I give this a try, Note just some points about reapers us and the rest of the Galaxy

Some where down the line the Reapers where smaller. Perhaps organics,or the creations of organics. In ME2 we find out that each reaper ship has 10's of 1000's of programs ( So kinda like Legion had multiple geth's in the platform ) The question remains is how long, have they been they are now. Is there a reaper home planet? Or was there one? did they even come from our Galaxy? where were they made/built is there a massive ship yard out there we haven't found, I doubt they would have they would let it just be floating out there. I still think that some Protheans knew that something was coming and perhaps left weapons or ships maybe messed with our genetic code or some of the other races genetic's as well. I mean most races out there have had Biotics we got ours by a accident. I noticed that we have advanced rather quickly. I mean a lot of other races had FTL's access to the mass effect tech for alot longer and here we are standing toe to toe in short order with them. Just saying with all that has been said I think we can win. It will be a hard fight but we will win and we will be stronger for it.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Can't believe this is still going...

[Pride Demon]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Can't believe this is still going...

Oh, come on, don't be like that... ;P
It's a legitimate opinion thread after all, even if it may appear to bring its argumentation forward with what appears to be too much finality...

Saphra may seem a bit grumpy and abrasive, but it's not that bad, it's just how he/she is, he/she is actually quite a nice forumite...
I tend to be long-winded while talking/writing to avoid misunderstandings, it gets on some people nerves but it's how I am, same with Saphra... Sorry for OT...

Modifié par Pride Demon, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:59 .

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Okay, that wasn't in the OP.

Technological singularity is not outright stated, but I thought everyone would understand that was what I was talking about anyway.

I'll consider editing that in.

Well, I don't think that will happen even with Reaper Tech, we tend to hit periods of diminishing returns, and there's always fluctuations, so I figure progress is more cyclical then exponential. It's more like a paradox if it can even be achieved.

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I wonder if they have emotions, and with how they have operated so far, I don't see how they can't be taken advantage of.

They might have emotions, they might not. Personally I doubt it considering they don't have organic brains. A lot of the trash talking Sovereign and Harbringer do may be nothing more than attempt to demoralize the being who does have emotions, namely Shepard.

Exactly, that's one way that we could hit them, being able to think outside the box, adapt quickly enough and come at them sideways.

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Right and then I gave evidence as to how that explosion can destroy them, that you did not counter.

Yes, I did. I countered it even before you brought it up.

Entanglement is not at all unfeasible for the Reapers. If they can put it in every Collector and any organic they choose to indoctrinate then they can install these devices in themselves.

Well, if you say so.

So, staying with QE, then I assume you mean that the Charon Relay will send the Reapers a signal a kin to a proximity warning.

I wonder if relays even have sophisticated sensor suites to identify different objects in their proximity. And with so many objects in the Kuiper belt, how sophisticated are it's detection protocols, so that the relay's data is not sending false readings?

Otherwise what information will tip the Reapers off to flee the solar system? Can the relay then send a visual of objects near relays? Even so how will that help. With the system installed in the SR2, I wonder what the limits to the system are to what the Reapers use.

And from what I've read in the Codex light takes about 5.75 hours to reach Earth from the Charon Relay.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Ships_and_Vehicles#Starships:_Sensors
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_relays
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Technology#Mass_Relays
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/Arrival:_The_Reapers%27_Secrets

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 27 juillet 2011 - 11:08 .

[eternalnightmare13]

Do you put this much effort into your job, or school work...

Saphra Deden wrote...

It has occurred to me that humanity at least is doomed no matter what we do. I would like to point you all towards a specific planet... it was... ah yes, this one.

Mass Effect Wikia says...

Eingana is a hot, beautiful, and deadly world, covered with the debris of ancient starships. Approximately 127,000 years ago, a series of battles were fought over it by two organic species, the thoi'han and the inusannon. Although no records of the conflict remain, most historians agree that both races wanted to colonize Eingana, and neither were willing to share. The two lost hundreds of ships in a series of battles over Eingana and its moon, Barraiya; many of these were eventually pulled in by the planet's gravity well.

The mass effect drive cores of these ships broke apart, dumping refined element zero over large stretches of the landscape. This poisoned the environment and a wave of extinctions followed. Many of the animal species that remained showed a tendancy to develop biotic powers. As the ecology of Eingana is energetic and aggressive, this makes colonization a deadly peril.

The implications should be obvious, but I suspect I need to spell it out anyway.

Reapers contain massive drive cores of their own, and what fuels drive cores? Element zero, of-course.

So what will happen if we destroy hundreds of Reapers on or in orbit over the Earth? The same thing that happened on Eingana will happen on Earth. Refined element zero will poison the environment and wipe out much of the life there. The effect will likely be much worse on Earth because Reapers likely carry drive cores much larger than anything the races fighting over Eingana used, meaning a hell of a lot more eezo is going to rain down on the planet.

Earth will become a wasteland with most species on land and in the water dead, including plants. This means
we won't be able to grow any edible food there. If the planet can't support life it certainly can't support industry and with that goes the human economy and along with it our military standing.

Someday the Earth will probably recover, but that could take tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years. It might even take many millionsof years depending on how catastrohpic and total the die-off is. Humans
can't afford to wait around that long.

Obviously, Earth isn't the only world in peril.



WE CAN'T HOPE TO BEAT THE REAPERS IN A WAR


Let me give you a run down of why.

Firstly, as the codex will tell you, in space-borne combat the combatants can flee at any time. If at any point one side feels it is losing the battle it can turn tale and run away. It can do this infinitely. This is especially true of the Reapers.

Codex: Space Combat

Most ship-to-ship engagements are skirmishes between patrol vessels of cruiser weight and below, with dreadnoughts and carriers only deployed in full-scale fleet actions. Battles in open space are short and often inconclusive, as the weaker opponent generally disengages.

Once a ship enters FTL flight the combat is effectively over; there are no sensors capable of tracking them, or weapons capable of damaging them. The only way to guarantee an enemy will stand and fight is to attack a location they have a vested interest in, such as a settled world or a strategically-important mass relay.

There is a key difference between us and the Reapers though. Any enemy we fight will, somewhere, have some sort of planet/moon/asteroid based assets to defend. Thus we can assault their planets to earn a victory if we must.

With the Reapers however this is not so. They have no planetary assets that they must defend. The Reapers are self sufficient, space-borne intelligences. It has been pointed out that they want the Earth and while this may be true, I guarantee you that they want their own continual survival even more than that. Assuming we successfully rally the galaxy to come and get their people killed to save our planet this offers no promise of victory against the Reapers. As soon as they realize the battle is turning against them (assuming that it does and that they don't just
obliterate every fleet in the galaxy), the Reapers will flee.

They'll fly up, abandon the Earth, and disappear in to the vast Milky Way galaxy. Maybe some aliens will get smart and blow up the Charon relay, isolating the Reapers in our cluster. This might buy the galaxy some time, but they'll never have any hope of winning the war.

The thing is, the Reapers don't need to capture any planets besides Earth. All they have to do is drop in out of FTL near a planet and bombard all of its inhabitants into ash. They can do this again and again on every populated world in the galaxy until none remain.

Whether it takes decades or centuries in time every race in the galaxy will be exterminated and any human survivors will be cultivated into a new Reaper.

The only remote possibility of victory is if we wait until all of the Reapers are busy harvesting Earth and then blow up the Charon relay. Theoreticaly the shockwave would overtake the Earth and destroy all of the Reapers before they could flee. After all, it is safeto assume that shockwave is travelling at the speed of light, or near it, or even faster than that. There is no way to avoid it unless you know ahead of time that it is coming. The Reapers could do this. If they have quantum entaglement devices installed in the relays (or at least in the Charon relay) they would know immediately that it had been destroyed and may be able to flee to avoid the shockwave. This is quite likely considering how trivial and widespread quantum entaglement technology is for the Reapers. The Collectors and Saren were riddled with it and the implants 'given' to Paul Grayson were linked to the Reapers in this way.

Now, assuming this isn't necessary and Shepard discovers some miracle that can defeat the Reapers, it will still be a hollow victory in some respects. The inescapable fact is that we will ALL BE CONSUMED BY REAPER TECH ANYWAY! Their technology will not vanish, it will instead be laying around for everyone in the galaxy to scoop up and reverse engineer. Terrifying things like indoctrination and quantum-entaglement devices will proliferate throughout the galaxy. One way or another, we will all become Reapers.


WE MUST JOIN WITH THE REAPERS

It is our (humanity's) only hope. When we lose Earth we will lose most of humanity, leaving too few humans to build a new Reaper with. We'll be stranded in a hostile and callous galaxy that will be eagerly working to reverse engineer Reaper technologies and their much larger and healtheir economies will ensure that they succeed long before we do (even with the Collector base). As they unlock the secrets of Reaper tech they will join in union with it
and change... becoming unrecognizable to us and at that point they may do whatever they want with us. Our fate will be beyond our control.

Joining with the Reapers now, while they can still create a Reaper for us, is our only hope. It is a not a fate I'd have ever wished for humanity, but it is one we can choose for ourselves, even if reluctantly, as opposed to one left up to outsiders. I think the Illusive Man and Cerberus understand this and this is why they have decided to join the Reapers.

The war was lost as soon as the Reapers descended upon the cradle of our species.

However we will survive, we will continue. Our legacy will not end.

Humanity will be reborn, unified at last in a single form, many voices, but a single mind, a single will.

A nation, sovereign, free of all weakness, and... eternal.

[eternalnightmare13]

Saphra Deden wrote...

maddenking2010 wrote...

you know thats interesting, destroy the mass relay so the reapers cant get there, but cut off humanity form the rest of galactic civilization (and other human colonies) that would be one hell of a choice

Destroying the Charon relay wouldn't cut off most of humanity.

Perhaps, but it'd certainly wipe out a decent amount of humanity.  That'll show the Reapers! HA! Take that we just kill ourselves before you! HA!

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Well, if you say so.

So, staying with QE, then I assume you mean that the Charon Relay will send the Reapers a signal a kin to a proximity warning.

No, NO! That is not what I mean! I said what I mean!

You didn't read my post!

Not that it is impossible the relays have means of contacting the Reapers, but that's beside the point.

The Reapers can leave one or several of their own in the general vicinity to monitor the relay's activity. If an impact and destruction of the relay is imminent they can warn the rest of the Reapers elsewhere in the system well ahead of time.

You said installed in the Relays!

I've quoted that part twice I think.



So, if we can modify the goal posts, I've been giving my idea some thought and figured it actually might be better to slam a dreadnought into the Relay, if blasting the damn relay with the main mass driver doesn't work! 

[Praetor Knight]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

maddenking2010 wrote...

you know thats interesting, destroy the mass relay so the reapers cant get there, but cut off humanity form the rest of galactic civilization (and other human colonies) that would be one hell of a choice

Destroying the Charon relay wouldn't cut off most of humanity.

Perhaps, but it'd certainly wipe out a decent amount of humanity.  That'll show the Reapers! HA! Take that we just kill ourselves before you! HA!

Teal'c agrees...

[Pride Demon]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Perhaps, but it'd certainly wipe out a decent amount of humanity.  That'll show the Reapers! HA! Take that we just kill ourselves before you! HA!

It's called an "attrition war", it's brutal...

Food for thought: what would the Reapers do if every race flagged for reaperification simply decided to commit mass suicide rather than be turned into goo?
That would forever stall their reproduction cycle, wouldn't it?
I wonder if it will have other side effects... :/

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

maddenking2010 wrote...

you know thats interesting, destroy the mass relay so the reapers cant get there, but cut off humanity form the rest of galactic civilization (and other human colonies) that would be one hell of a choice

Destroying the Charon relay wouldn't cut off most of humanity.

No, but it's almost as stupid as telling the Alliance to ignore evacuating people off Earth when the Reapers attack.

Why? Because you'll wipe out the Prothean ruins on Mars, which people recently discovered had a hidden chamber.

That, and you'd destroy Earth, wiping out literally 99% of humanity.

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

You said installed in the Relays!

Oh, you're right I did. I was confused with what I said there and what I've talked about elsewhere.

Well, anyway, yes they could have such devices installed in the relays, or they could, as I suggested, leave one or several of their own close enough to watch the relay's activity. They'll probably do this because they'll want to know as soon as someone comes through the relay.

They can also track any and all objects in the relay's vicinity to see if any have had their trajectories changed.

We are not modifying the goal posts. I don't think you understand what that means.

Well, I've been responding to your points in the OP.

Then you introduce a new facet, where a Reaper is now monitoring the Relay.

I like how you argue. "I don't think you understand what that means."
What's a better concept or label! Contingencies?!
:innocent:

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...
Then you introduce a new facet, where a Reaper is now monitoring the Relay.

That is not a new facet. The point is: the Reapers can monitor the relay with quantum entanglement devices. Those devices could be installed in the relay itself or they could be the ones built into a Reaper left to watch over it.

The point remains the same.

Then Contingencies it is.

Darn those space cuttlefish.

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...
Then Contingencies it is.

Darn those space cuttlefish.

Right.

So are you done here or what?