Arijharn wrote...
I was mainly saying though: How do you know they've been in orbit for however long, what made you just 'assume' it mainly?
I was saying they could have been in orbit anywhere from several minutes to several hours or days. Long enough to align themselves and be ready to fire on the surface at a moments notice.
Planetary assaults are complicated affairs. Why don't you go read the codex on it?
Actually, I'll be nice and quote it here for you:
Codex: Planetary Assaults
Planetary assaults are complicated if the target is a habitable
garden world; the attackers cannot approach the defenders straight on.
The Citadel Conventions
prohibit the use of large kinetic impactors against habitable worlds.
In a straight-on attack, any misses plough into the planet behind the
defending fleet. If the defenders position themselves between the
attackers and the planet, they can fire at will while the attacker risks
hitting the planet.
Successful assaults on garden worlds hinge upon up-to-date
intelligence. Attackers need to determine where the enemy's defenses
are, so they may approach from an angle that allows them to fire with no
collateral damage. Note this is not necessary for hostile worlds.
Once control of orbit has been lost, defensive garrisons disperse
into the wilderness. An enemy with orbital superiority can bombard
surface forces with impunity. The best option for defenders is to hide
and collect reconnaissance in anticipation of relief forces.
Obviously not all of this applies to the battle we are discussing here, but enough of it does. Namely the parts about the disadvantage we face in attacking the enemy and the need for up-to-date intel.
Arijharn wrote...
You just said we had supply trains, therefore we can't really 'run out.'
Supply trains I was disrupting. If you are going to wait there any length of time sooner or later you'll need supplies, and a lot of them at that. That's your fleets weakness. I don't expect you'd cave all at once, but the point is: this is not going to be as easy as you are trying to make it out to be.
I never said we couldn't put a up a hell of a fight against the Reapers. We can. I just don't think we can win the war in the long run.
Maybe we
can win the battle for Earth, but that's just one battle among many.
Arijharn wrote...
Yes you have. You've struck out without knowledge of the rest of the sol system because you're constrained on Earth.
Wait, now the entire solar system is under your control? This helps you how? You can't hide your massive fleet because the entire point behind it is that I see it. I see your fleet, I can see where you'll be getting supplies from.
(which will either be ships coming through the relay or Saturn if you've managed to rebuild the fuel stations there, somehow)
It seems you are portraying this as a battle that I am already losing.
Let's take a step back. How will you retake the sol system? Assume I've got Reapers guarding the relay just waiting for you to send a fleet through and I've got forces around Saturn as well.
Time is ultimately on my side, Arijharn. If you want to try and park your fleet out there for all time, go ahead. I can stay on Earth and keep harvesting it until there is not a single human left.
You are the one under time pressures here, not me.
Arijharn wrote...
That's why prior experience comes in to play, that's why you don't shoot at the core centre of the Reaper, that's why you try to gain as much intel on the enemy in the first place. You know, why we did things like save the CB in the first place.
If you pull the Collector base card I pull the Cerberus card. They are the ones with the Collector base and as far as we know right now they're on the Reaper's side. So you can say goodbye to that intel. Or are you also assuming you've defeated the Collector base and recaptured it? Would that be fair? Or maybe we can assume you failed to penetrate the Omega-4 Relay a second time or Cerberus blew it up rather than let you steal it from them.
I can tell you one thing: you'll need a hell of a lot more than one frigate and 12 badasses to capture the base a second time.
Arijharn wrote...
You mean other than said action will guarantee their destruction?
No, all it means is that they are losing the battle and are retreating. This doesn't mean you are moping the floor with them. The battle may have many more hours or days of fighting left in it, but the Reaper's sophisticated minds have already seen where it is going and they're slowly withdrawing.
Part of your argument hinges on your sophisticated computers... well, the Reapers are even more sophisticated, remember? Not every ship in your fleet is going to have its own EDI. That raises all sorts of frightening issues all on its own.
Arijharn wrote...
I'm lost, how did we get into this convo about FTL? How are Reapers in FTL if they're in orbit around Earth and we're trying to evict them?
Wow, we are having a huge miscommunication here.
Arijharn, the Reapers are not in FTL. However for your ships to reach Earth in a human life-time they will need to use FTL at some point. You could drop out of FTL much further from Earth, like say in the outer solar system, but then you'll have to spend days or weeks flying to Earth and that gives the Reapers ample time to detect you and prepare for your arrival. The upside is that this all applies to you as well will be able to detect them as you get closer to the planet.
Your other option is to drop out of FTL relatively close to the planet at which point the Reapers will immediately be aware of you but will not have as much time to prepare. The downside of this strategy is that you as well will not have as much time to pinpoint the Reaper locations, orient your ships, take aim, and fire.
..but of-course as the attacker you are at a disadvantage anyway for the Reasons put forth in the codex.
Arijharn wrote...
No. And I'll tell you why, because statistically in the medieval ages (bear with me!) most conflicts that resulted in lengthly sieges did not lead in an attackers success... meaning we have to be a bit more patient.
Too bad time is working against you.
Once the Reapers finish with Earth they'll leave and that may be the last time you have a chance to attack them like this. After that they can do hit and run tactics on entire planets, dropping out of FTL only long enough to lob a few shots at the very large planet-sized target and then FLT jump away again. This is your doom. It will likely take years for the Reapers to accomplish, but they will succeed in the long run.
You really don't want them to escape from Earth.
So then you can commit to a more destructive strategy that will more likely than not desolate the Earth if saving the planet is not your priority.
There are two main points to this thread, remember? That we (probably) can't save Earth and (probably) can't defeat the Reapers.
(I remind you as I've reminded others that I'm fond of hyperbole)
You can risk destroying Earth to increase your odds of defeating the Reapers or decrease your odds of defeating the Reapers to improve your chances of saving Earth.
Heh, you're a crackerjack in a box sometimes, in fact, the majority of it relies on the skill and professionalism of those under my command, and based off technology that is current now, with the slight admitted assumption that is more capable in the future.
Current now as in the real world or current in Mass Effect?
Arijharn wrote...
You have made a massive assumption as well; that the Reapers are unbeatable (but then you crossed that off earlier) and I endeavoured to educate you otherwise.
Oh no you don't. I never
ever assumed the Reapers were unbeatable. I came to this conclusion after thinking about it carefully and asking other people for their input. Furthermore, I never decided the Reapers were
literally unbeatable, just that the odds were stacked against us in such a way that victory seemed incredibly improbable.
Hitting an immobile object is quite different from hitting a mobile one that is actively attempting to
avoid being destroyed.
How many hits will you need to land anyway? If one shot is all it takes we'll be very fortunate, but I guarantee the Reapers will be doing the same to us. The Collector ship may not have been the best indication of the Thanix' power after all. Considering the shape of the Collector ship and where we hit it - it was shaped like a cylinder and we fired straight down the center of it, hitting somewhere near the back where the engines and main cannon appeared to be. A very obvious and exposed weak spot all things considered.
I don't think the Collector ship was ever designed for head-to-head engagements.
Will the Thanix be that effective against a Reaper?
What if they aren't?
Retour en haut
