2463 réponses à ce sujet

[joriandrake]

I doubt Bioware thought of just disabling the whole relay system, I think it would be too troublesome to design some ingame explanations then despite it being a better/cooler choice for reaper tactics, I do however think it would be interesting how some secret, not much used new stardrive system would allow just a handful of ships to travel without mass relays, as example it could easily be installed on the redesigned Normandy too, while most races would have to refit all their battleships with the new drive to be able to even reach most of the reapers to fight them


this would be both an interesting tatical and also a story choice, players could decide which factions to share tech data with, and how much, essentially deciding who may be sitting ducks waiting for a deathblow and who can be combat ready when the time is right

Modifié par joriandrake, 28 juillet 2011 - 10:43 .

[Arijharn]

Memmahkth wrote...
Except that eezo is not like any other drug, and not a drug at all!  Red sand is, but we're not talking about red sand.  Exposure to eezo dust does not have any effects aside from some pregnancy issues.

Which will happen... do to it contaminating our atmosphere in Saphra's scenario to which you granted as is. But that cases either dead or mutancy (is that even a word? I'm not getting a spellchecker on it...)

But, isn't red sand ground martian rock plus eezo? If so; then how is sand any more a 'drug' than eezo, considering it's the biotic tendencies that apparently cause the additive effect? 

Memmahkth wrote...
It's obviously going to impact our species.  I'm not arguing it's not going to have any effect.  It's mainly to argue that there will not be an extinction level event because of it, and at worse, our birth rate decreases for a time period on Earth. 

It's not going to be just our species, but all species, which is doubtless going to have a flow on effect that's more likely than not going to be major. Now, I'll agree with you that the onus lies on Saphra to show just how much it's going to have, but it's premature to just dismiss it out of hand imo.

Memmahkth wrote...
Oh no!  Crops!  I never wash my food off.  It's dust form.  Eventually it'll collect in the bottom of streams or rivers, lakes, etc.  It can then be removed from the environment.  I believe somewhere it was mentioned a planet having biotic potential wildlife, but that doesn't seem to imply it's not edible or polluted.  Eezo exposure is not radiation exposure.

Heh, I'm considering more about exposure through plant soil more than anything else. As to biotic potential wildlife, you have to remember that that was an evolved response, which is a bit further down the track than say 5 years post Reaper War etc. As to eezo in food as to whether it's edible or not, if memory serves that's actually a contentious issue within the Mass Effect universe itself, to the point where Thessia encourages non-natives to each 'Foreigner dishes.' 

Memmahkth wrote...
  Eezo dust everywhere can't be bad, unless you're a fetus.  Then you're either unaffected, or develop a terminal cancer with a small chance you could turn into a super biotic!

YAY! I like those odds!

[Arijharn]

Memmahkth wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Heh, that's how I'd do it, I'd go against the Citadel and look that down rather than waste time on Earth.

what makes you believe the Reapers cannot be doing both at the same time?  They reach Earth first, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have forces pushing on throughout the galaxy.  There could be a force on its way to strike at the citadel in order to lock down all the relays, as well as a force striking Earth.

There are a lot of reapers.  Sure, they all could stop and attack Earth, but to me, that doesn't seem very tactical or smart.  But I haven't played ME3, so we'll see.

I'm not thinking that they wouldn't, I just assume that sooner or later the narrative would have us beat them at this game because we gain allies to march on Earth, and I can't think that our allies would think Earth to be more important than the Citadel, no matter how much they may otherwise love you.

[joriandrake]

as far I know majority of the Citadel fleet is always concentrated at the Citadel, so it would be a sound plan to just go there and eliminate that aslong they are in a single group and do not flee and spread out (as thought from the reaper perspective)

edit: Reapers (or atleast Sovereign) are pretty much like giant squids/jellyfishes and should thus be able to do sudden speed bursts and shockiingly rapid changes in direction, aslong the original design idea also influences movement options

Modifié par joriandrake, 28 juillet 2011 - 10:51 .

[Rahmiel]

bboynexus wrote...

I don't think it's simply indoctrination, but Cerberus are clearly out to thwart Shepard's efforts against the Reapers, and Shepard clearly says "They're indoctrinated, they're capable of anything" in the Sur-kesh demos.

I'm not going to put a lot of stock into that demo beyond the fact that the tech has changed and the animations.  Casey said himself in one of his answers at SDCC during a Q/A that they don't go to these conventions to demo the story of the game.  It's there to show you systems and tech.  He even mentions the systems are not even finalised so don't expect the level up screen or evolution screens to be what you see.

Also, is that in a playthrough with the collector base, or without?  Is the indoctrination of Cerberus an assured event, or is it tied to choice?  We cannot even answer that.  I'm not saying you're way off base for assuming that.. I'm just very skeptical of any dialogue in a gameplay demo.

One sec.. 

Dialogue can be easily changed, as evidenced in that trailer.  I just cannot take anything cannon wise as fact until the full product is shipped.

What we do know, is what Casey has told us.  Which is that the Reapers arrive at Earth, Earth is under siege, we escape, Cerberus is now our enemy, and we must race against time to unite the galaxy and find a way to stop the reapers.

That's it.  Everything else is speculation concerning ME3.

[Rahmiel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

bboynexus wrote...

Dr. Wallace Breen has a particular monologue in Half-Life 2 which greatly supports this theory.

It has come to my attention that lately some have called me 'indoctrinated', as though such a state of being were shameful.

Well I ask you, what greater endeavor exists than that of salvation?

In our current unparalleled enterprise a refusal to accept salvation is refusal to grow, an insistence on suicide if you will.

Would we follow the example of the humble lungfish? Trapped in the ocean abyss, lidless eyes open, staring into the dark. Ignorant and doomed despite our eternal vigilance.

Would we model ourselves on the Protheans? Are all the accomplishments of mankind fated to be nothing more than a thin layer of broken plastic shards, sandwhiched between the Acidalia Planetia and an eons worth of dust?

In order to stay true to our nature we must aspire to greater things. We have outgrown the cradle. It is futile to cry for mothers milk while our true desinty awaits us among the stars.

Therefore I say yes, I am indoctrinated! We must all accept salvation. Willingly! Eagerly!

If we are to be are to survive, and survive... we shall.

You missed your opportunity to submit to Saren in the first game.  He basically argued all these points himself.  Yet you, as Commander Shepard argued against this.  Soooooo... <shrug>  Why the change of heart?  Unless every time Shepard opens his/her mouth, you get irrate and yell at the screen.

[joriandrake]

i think it was obvious using reaper tech is a bad idea, there were hints for that, think indoctrination, cybernetic skeleton zombie, geth cultists, revealed reaper involvement in tech advantage and the Citadel, history of the "Ancients"

the only reaper tech I was willing to use and keep was tech-related hand weapons, and EDI, despite the risks and Cerberus connection


also, the cerberus team going crazy in various events in ME1, and on the reaper "corpse" in ME2 made it 120% clear to me that Cerberus can't be helped, they either side with the reapers on their own or get indoctrinated, so it was a no-no for me to ever send them any optional tech info or allow them to keep the collector base

[Rahmiel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Eingana

...a hot, beautiful, and deadly world, covered with the debris of
ancient starships. Approximately 127,000 years ago, a series of battles
were fought over it by two organic species, the thoi'han and the
inusannon. Although no records of the conflict remain, most historians
agree that both races wanted to colonize Eingana, and neither were
willing to share. The two lost hundreds of ships in a series of battles
over Eingana and its moon, Barraiya; many of these were eventually
pulled in by the planet's gravity well.
The mass effect drive cores of these ships broke apart, dumping
refined element zero over large stretches of the landscape. This
poisoned the environment and a wave of extinctions followed. Many of the
animal species that remained showed a tendancy to develop biotic
powers. As the ecology of Eingana is energetic and aggressive, this
makes colonization a deadly peril.

Please pay attention to the bolded and underlined parts.

Can you prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that those drive cores were the reason behind the poisoning of the environment?  Given what we know about the Reapers', does it not make more sense the two species were fighting together against the Reapers?

Knowing that, can you also assure that the Reapers themselves did not poison the environment themselves as a way of destroying the planet, and then destroyed both fleets or vice versa?  Given everything we know about the Reapers as players, I find it hard to believe in anything scholars, archaeologists, or historians believe happened more than 50,000 years prior.

edit: I should really reread before posting.

Modifié par Memmahkth, 28 juillet 2011 - 11:08 .

[joriandrake]

while many planet info are unclear, those that hint at reapers pretty much all mention "sudden total extinction" or "50.000 x X years", I doubt this specific planed history is about reapers, it is really just two somewhat advanced races/cultures "nuking" eachother

[Someone With Mass]

The solution is simple: Don't wage wars over planets you care about.

Duh.

[joriandrake]

"4th Planet, Han System, Gemini Sigma Cluster.
Several moons were carved into the likeness of an alien race 500,000 years ago. The ability to sculpt a moon is probably beyond current technologies, indicating a potentially higher tech base. Nothing else is known about them."

see exact mention of 50.000 years x 10

pretty likely it was reaper eliminated, they didn't bother erasing some faces from non-living moons that is all that survived



"2nd Planet, Zelene System, Crescent Nebula Cluster.
Possibly the homeworld of the arthenn, said to have vanished 300,000 years ago. Evidence that biological weapons were used make the planet a no-land zone. Several other planets in this system bear traces of their passage. It is likely a moon of the gas giant Gaelon was completely pulverized by mass accelerator fire."

exact mention of 50000 x X again



"2nd planet, Newton System, Kepler Verge.
Another favorite. Volus billionaire Kumun Shol is funding an operation to find the “lost crypts of the Beings of Light” who were created at the dawn of time to fight the “Machine Devils.” There are too many theories floating around to list them all here."

"machine devils", obvious



"1st Planet, Xe Cha System, The Shrike Abyssal.
Volus exploration probes have discovered the remains of mining stations dated approximately 50,000 years. Since this would put it at the time of the Prothean extinction it is possible that it was a Protean operation, however it is not named as such, implying it might belong to another race which had achieved space flight, but maybe not FTL."

once again clear 50000 x X situation



As you see, we don't need to add extra conspiracy/extinction theories to all planets, those with reaper history are pretty obvious to the players reading the info, others are just what they are said to be: results of war between lesser (?) races

Modifié par joriandrake, 28 juillet 2011 - 11:23 .

[Arijharn]

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
"get closer" is the important thing here. Any information you gain from a distance will suffer from light lag. Don't forget that.
[/quote]
I'm not, I'm just saying that the resolution of the issue will get speedier and speedier as we get closer. Whether their actual location is correct to 5 metres or not when we're literally on the other side of the system doesn't really mean anything.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
Regading supply trains, them being a periodic thing might be even worse. That means the Reapers can concentrate a strike team on only one or two supply trains and cripple your fleet in only one or two battles... without even engaging your fleet itself.
[/quote]
You'll have to get off our planet for that to happen and we'll know about it. You don't think every available eye is going to be scanning over Earth for minute differences? Hell, we can tell a computer to compare two photographs and pick out differences.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
Engineer Adams? You can't hide a ship in space. Space is just too cold and ships too hot.
[/quote]
That's an oversimplification in that you forgot that the solar system isn't actually empty to begin with and you have to know when they'll appear and be in a position to strike, which I don't think you'll be able to get away with doing given what you've told me.

[quoteSaphra Deden wrote...
The more I think about it the more this battle will be determined by technology. Either we have the weapons necessary to reach an acceptable kill to loss ratio or we don't and we die.
[/quote]
I think that's a logical conclusion to make. But it's always been the case no?
Meta-level speaking we've gotten this far to Earth, thus we have the technology besides us.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
No, you can't. Earth is special. The Reapers want Earth intact because they want the population. They don't want any other worlds. So they can bomb them with impunity.
[/quote]
If they want the population, they aren't going to bomb with impunity, if they bomb with impunity, then we'll have no reservations about doing the same. If they scorch Earth us, I see no reason why we shouldn't just respond likewise, sure, we might not 'save Earth', but we'll annihilate the Reapers.

Besides, sooner or later we can repopulate Earth, depending on what sort of 'impunity bombing' we're talking about. Mass Accelerator weapons are WMD, but do they cause radioactive fallout? I think I'll check soon!

Regardless, I think we may need to redraw the maps!

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
Any moral boost you earned is going to vanish quickly when Reapers start dropping out of FTL near garden worlds and hitting them with mass accelerator fire. The deaths will add up quickly and the longer it goes on the more of your infrastructure will have been lost. In time you'll run out of places you can live.
[/quote]
How many garden worlds have we found? How many garden worlds are still inhabitated during the events of the Reaper War (i.e., how many have they already crushed?). I don't think this is nearly the problem you make it out to be. If a garden world exists, has a small population but is otherwise unimportant (as defined by strategic concerns) then as ruthless as it sounds, I'm not going to split forces to defend it. I'd Revan it up by concentrating on planets that are important and making it impossible for those to be assaulted, whether by invasion attempts or Reaper's dropping in just to say hello and then scooting on out of there.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
It may take centuries, but it will come to pass that your fleets will break apart due to a lack of personnel, ships, and supplies.
[/quote]
lol. I'm not really going to bother refuting this considering you said to me the other post that maybe I should stop making assumptions that all seem to be good for me.

But... oh hell, I may as well. You striking at isolated non important Garden worlds is going to mean precisely squat to overall strategic command. You know why? Because you're striking at isolated and non-important worlds, because I'm garrisoning and protecting important ones.

What are some ways that a world is 'important'?
•Manufacturing capability
•Recruitment prospects
•Close to 'trade routes.'

The simple fact that a world may be a garden world does not make it automatically important to an overall war effort. And, while you may be individually powerful, every loss you suffer is going to be much harder for you to replace.



[quote]Saphra Deden wrote wrote...
No, I don't have to leave Earth behind. I can sit there and wait for you to come to me. Otherwise I finish up and I leave. At that point you'll never again get the chance to assault my forces in any kind of real battle.
[/quote]
You've already forgotten that I'm picking off Reapers during this time? Oh well, I guess those particular ones wont be 'harvesting' any time soon which means that any timeframe you've sort of planned out for this isn't going to be met.

Saphra, I'm not taking big bites out of you, I'm taking lots of little painful ones. The sooner you realise this, the sooner you have a chance. If you all then mass near certain points on the planet, then that means I can make planetfall and link up with any resistance members. If I dart in, direct firepower on one or two reapers and then withdraw, then you've taken much more casualties than me in the sense of sheer tonnage you've lost (I'm not sending in capital ships).

Furthermore, if you just up and leave, you'll have to go to the Mass Relay (as per your strategy, even if I don't know it, I know that sooner or later you'll have to go there, and more to the point, I don't even need to wait until you do), which means I can harry you the entire way and then force an encounter.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
To win this war you need to engage the Reapers while they are still concerned about harvesting Earth and destroy most of them in the process. Time is against you.
[/quote]
No I don't, my objective is to stop the Reapers, harvesting is a secondary objective. Where did you get this 'harvesting' idea from anyway?

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
In order to trap them you probably need to amass your forces together as quickly as possible and surround the Earth before the Reapers have a chance to fleet. Then you just hope you can blast enough of them before they break through.
[/quote]
I just need to blockade myself between them and space essentially, and move with. The idea being that not even Reapers can actually move through a planets core.


[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
How do you defend foritfy a world against mass accelerator fire? I don't care if there is a precedent for this or not (and there is, in the codex). You haven't provided a reason this tactic wouldn't work. Also it isn't arbitrary, the point of this tactic is to gradually exterminate your species by depriving you of the environment you require to sustain life.
[/quote]
CDN, Taetrus I think after it was revealed that technology exists that prevents suicide bombers and to protect cities from orbital strikes. Not saying it isn't expensive, just saying it's probably a good idea to make the expense available if there's Reapers still lurking out there.

I'm actually curious,  where's the codex entry saying that Reapers make hit and run attacks? In fact, I'm not even sure if the Reapers are properly set up to engage in active prolonged war (although I'm not goign to assume they aren't), considering their whole MO is "QUICK, OFF WITH ITS HEAD!"

But here's the rub I feel with your tactic, if we require garden worlds, and you require us, then that would mean that you would require us to be alive at the time. Otherwise, why not just bombard Earth at the outset? Why the pretense of making the landing in the first place? Why didn't the Collector's just dart down and kill everyone and then pick up their bodies to throw into the smelter? Why the added step of paralysing them?

Look, you can't just pop in wily nilly fire off a random shot at a planet and then jump out, because anybody worth their salt is going to have ships stationed at the actual Mass Relay's themselves (and why wouldn't I? Because it doesn't conform to standard defensive posture tactics when guarding worlds?) If you jump in not adequately prepared you're going to get very rapidly smooshed. If you are prepared, then I'm going to be harrying you anyway. 


[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
I don't think the Reapers will have too hard a time escaping Earth at all. Once they're in orbit they're half-way to anywhere they want to be in the galaxy. They just need to find a clear spot and turn on the FTL. Space is huge after all.
[/quote]
As soon as you escape Earth orbit, I don't need to strike you at your kneecaps anymore. I can fire for effect.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
"That ship Sovereign? It just pulled a turn that would have ripped any one of our ships apart..." - Joker

By all accounts Reapers are more maneuverable than any of our ships thanks to their massive drive cores.
[/quote]
Yes, but that doesn't mean they move impossibly that just means they can move quickly. But movement is relatively easy to track, and the margin of error reduces the further in you take the shot.

For example, you are rapidly rotating in place, so fast in fact that you're starting to get very dizzy. Now, to stop you, I don't shoot the part that is a blur, I shot at your central body mass. however, I don't need to shoot your heart or your head to incapitate you.

While unlikely though that we'll find out; it would be interesting to see whether they're capable of turns like this in atmosphere or not.


[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
I'm skeptical about the Thanix because it supposedly only allows a frigate to match the firepower of a cruiser and cruisers took a lot of time to weaken Sovereign. Of-course there might be more powerful variants of the Thanix.
[/quote]
I used to think that the Thanix was necessary, in game would still think that were it not for the ME3 demo where someone on a ship in orbit essentially sniped one. Of course, the Reaper got back up, but I think it would be erroneous to say it got up 'unharmed' though.

It's because in game that I would think the Thanix absolutely necessary is why I said I'd lead first into the relay with the capital ships and then later with frigates and fighters with thanix, because my hope would be that the sudden appearance of a capital ship would draw the Reaper's firepower, leaving the actual threat, as it were, to nip around and destroy individual ships.

Capital ships would be sunk this way though, which is why I thought: "Oh hell, the codex tells its possible, so I may as well just send in everyone at once."

I don't think your devils advocate is really working Saphra, you've conceeded several points and you've changed some goal posts I feel. If this is what you've gotten down too, just proverbially shake my hand, say "gg" and bask in the knowledge that we aren't necessarily Reaper chow.

[Arijharn]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Memmahkth wrote...

Can you prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that those drive cores were the reason behind the poisoning of the environment? 

Get out. I'm done with you.

Maybe I'll leave then too, because I thought that was actually a pretty reasonable demand for him to make. It's a codex entry, they aren't supposed to be the be all and end all, a lot of it is biased information as it's clearly written in-universe. As such, it's impossible to gain any real conclusive proof.

[Rahmiel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Memmahkth wrote...

Can you prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that those drive cores were the reason behind the poisoning of the environment? 

Get out. I'm done with you.

You're taking the word of scientists that are dismissing the fact that races are being systematically exterminated by a superior machine race.  Honestly, you can trust their conclusions?  Knowing what you know about the reapers?

No other planet seems to be suffering the same fate as that one.  I doubt that's the only planet to have ships blow up in orbit and crash.  Shouldn't there be many many many more planets with such side effects?  Even ones from the Rachni wars?  The krogan rebellions?

Given all the battles, all the destroyed ships (and not just from the current species) why are there not more planets like this?

[Rahmiel]

joriandrake wrote...

"4th Planet, Han System, Gemini Sigma Cluster.
Several moons were carved into the likeness of an alien race 500,000 years ago. The ability to sculpt a moon is probably beyond current technologies, indicating a potentially higher tech base. Nothing else is known about them."

see exact mention of 50.000 years x 10

pretty likely it was reaper eliminated, they didn't bother erasing some faces from non-living moons that is all that survived



"2nd Planet, Zelene System, Crescent Nebula Cluster.
Possibly the homeworld of the arthenn, said to have vanished 300,000 years ago. Evidence that biological weapons were used make the planet a no-land zone. Several other planets in this system bear traces of their passage. It is likely a moon of the gas giant Gaelon was completely pulverized by mass accelerator fire."

exact mention of 50000 x X again



"2nd planet, Newton System, Kepler Verge.
Another favorite. Volus billionaire Kumun Shol is funding an operation to find the “lost crypts of the Beings of Light” who were created at the dawn of time to fight the “Machine Devils.” There are too many theories floating around to list them all here."

"machine devils", obvious



"1st Planet, Xe Cha System, The Shrike Abyssal.
Volus exploration probes have discovered the remains of mining stations dated approximately 50,000 years. Since this would put it at the time of the Prothean extinction it is possible that it was a Protean operation, however it is not named as such, implying it might belong to another race which had achieved space flight, but maybe not FTL."

once again clear 50000 x X situation



As you see, we don't need to add extra conspiracy/extinction theories to all planets, those with reaper history are pretty obvious to the players reading the info, others are just what they are said to be: results of war between lesser (?) races

Word.  To make matters easier for you, you're basically speaking mod 50,000.  So what you're looking for is 0 mod 50,000.  127,000 (give or take a few thousand years) puts it around the 25,000 mod 50,000 mark.  Which, could be outside the reaper's cycle.  That's true.  Then that would favour a non reaper conflict.

It could very well be two civilisations in a battle for that one planet, but I also fail to see the connection between the battle and the drive core pollution of the environment.  Eezo dust =/= radiation.  The only effects we know happen during pregnancy.  Everything else is pure speculation.  What was the environment like pre battle?  Do we know that?

Again, the historians/archaeologists do not have the best track record in the ME universe.  Scientists believe the relays and citadel to be constructed by the Protheans as evidenced in the codex.  Doesn't make it right, as you point out.

That's why I say, can you say beyond the shadow of a doubt.. I mean, is there a definitive correlation between that battle and the effects on that planet?  Knowing everything we know?  I do not believe so.. but perhaps.

[Someone With Mass]

Memmahkth wrote...

You're taking the word of scientists that are dismissing the fact that races are being systematically exterminated by a superior machine race.  Honestly, you can trust their conclusions?  Knowing what you know about the reapers?

No other planet seems to be suffering the same fate as that one.  I doubt that's the only planet to have ships blow up in orbit and crash.  Shouldn't there be many many many more planets with such side effects?  Even ones from the Rachni wars?  The krogan rebellions?

Given all the battles, all the destroyed ships (and not just from the current species) why are there not more planets like this?

Perhaps it's because the current civilization may have a way of filtering away at least some parts of the eezo out of the food and water to the point where it's relatively harmless.

That, or they just isolated the eezo in space before it could do any serious harm, and then harvested it.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 28 juillet 2011 - 12:07 .

[Rahmiel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

What do you want me to do? Gather a team, jump into the Mass Effect universe, and conduct my own research?

I don't see why you would dispute this information unless it is actually you who doesn't want to swallow their pride.

We know from other sources eezo exposure can cause cancers.

Here we have a description for a planet that states hundreds of eezo cores blowing up on and above the planet poisoned the environment and caused waves of extinctions.

If both of you can't accept that then by all means stay out of this thread.

Does the exposure cause cancer in adolescents, adults, eldarly?  Or only fetuses?

How does the biology/ecology of those species/planet compare to that of Earths?  Are you prepared to state that the effects are the exact same knowing nothing of the biology of those two races or the ecology pre-battle?  Extinction event for those races may be nothing to us.  (or birth defects only).

You're definitively stating that space battles cannot occur anywhere near Earth, so as soon as reapers even entire the orbit, any planet they're on, is a right off.  We disagree with you because we do not believe the eezo dust to be as hazardous as you claim it to be.  Given what we know about the effects to eezo dust exposure, only pregnant people need to be concerned.

So we're faced with giving up on Earth and letting the population be killed (either through reaper reproduction or not just destroyed) or fighting back against the reapers, and suffering some birth defects and a decreased birth rate.

Seems obvious to us which we'd choose.  Again though.. perhaps you should just replay ME1 and agree with Saren instead of disagreeing with him.

[Someone With Mass]

Thessia has eezo in just about everything and it's doing fine.

[Pulletlamer]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'll tell you what: if you aren't going to accept the account of the mass extinctions on Eingana then I won't accept the dates proposed. Show me physical proof this all happened 127,000 years ago.

Furthermore I want proof the Protheans died out 50,000 years ago. Physical proof. Prove to me that is the correct estimate. Carbon date that ****. Get on it. Now.

Just to give my input in here. No offense but you're asking for something that's impossible or highly unlikely to happen.

We don't have any proof for that. And much less physical. It's just what the game and the novels told us.

You can't ask for proof since we don't have. By that rule I could ask you proof to show it didn't happen. physical proof.

And just because there's no proof that says it is that way it doesn't mean it is not what actually happened. Lack of proof is not a proof.

I could argue the Big bang doesn't exist or it can't happen because there's no physical proof of it, which would be quite stupid, sincerely.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 28 juillet 2011 - 12:21 .

[Arijharn]

The difference is he isn't making a theory behind it that depends on it to be true to be successful, you are (me? I'm just playing the devil's advocate). He's attacked the sanctity of the codex because we know that it isn't one hundred percent reliable.

I think the general principle is that one source alone isn't enough I think.