2463 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Sisterofshane now introducing explanations in lump sums!...jeebus how long did it take you to type all of that.

You just got served...a huge freaking wall of text son.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

K..

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 06:55 .

[Sisterofshane]

yeah, sorry my bad! It's a lot to digest...

I tend to be a "completionist" when I play the games, and I guess it kind of translated into my debating skills...

and Typhoon, there should seriously be another forum on here for people to add captions to that picture, because what the heck is Shep doing?!? Bet there would be some freakin' hilarious responses!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Sisterofshane wrote...

yeah, sorry my bad! It's a lot to digest...

I tend to be a "completionist" when I play the games, and I guess it kind of translated into my debating skills...

and Typhoon, there should seriously be another forum on here for people to add captions to that picture, because what the heck is Shep doing?!? Bet there would be some freakin' hilarious responses!

Well...there is another one that involves the hokie pokie.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

This argument is semantics,only time will tell if/how we save teh planet.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

This argument is semantics,only time will tell if/how we save teh planet.

My guess Bioware won't even bring this up because it never occurred to them and it would get in the way of the game's story.

Eh,I'm willing to give BW the benefit of the doubt,who knows maybe they'll surprise us.They are crafty fellas.

But by all means if they fail to adress it,unleash thy wrath upon them.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 07:24 .

[Praetor Knight]

Sisterofshane wrote...

yeah, sorry my bad! It's a lot to digest...

I tend to be a "completionist" when I play the games, and I guess it kind of translated into my debating skills...

and Typhoon, there should seriously be another forum on here for people to add captions to that picture, because what the heck is Shep doing?!? Bet there would be some freakin' hilarious responses!

You want the Motivationals thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/2004874

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Eh,I'm willing to give BW the benefit of the doubt,

You're naive then.

Well,there is no pleasing some people.shortsidedness solves nothing.:happy:

[SkittlesKat96]

 I agree with Saphra, its impossible to beat the Reapers and we won't defeat the Reapers in Mass Effect 3 no matter what we do. The ending will always result in Earth not being saved and we can't beat the Reapers.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

 I agree with Saphra, its impossible to beat the Reapers and we won't defeat the Reapers in Mass Effect 3 no matter what we do. The ending will always result in Earth not being saved and we can't beat the Reapers.

Yeah I'm just glad saphra is a writer at BW,saved me $80 by telling me we can't win,hell can't even save our little blue marble,all is lost.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

 I agree with Saphra, its impossible to beat the Reapers and we won't defeat the Reapers in Mass Effect 3 no matter what we do. The ending will always result in Earth not being saved and we can't beat the Reapers.

Yeah I'm just glad saphra is a writer at BW,saved me $80 by telling me we can't win,hell can't even save our little blue marble,all is lost.

Maybe you can put that $80 dollars toward something more productive, like increasing your IQ maybe?

Just friendly advice.

Charming.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 29 juillet 2011 - 07:54 .

[Arijharn]

Saphra Deden wrote...
I didn't say it was.

WHY WHY WHY!

Here's an idea then, say what you mean as opposed to linking vast tracts of article and then letting people infer what they want from it then.

You know, when you link crap that says:

The two lost hundreds of ships in a series of battles over Eingana and its moon, Barraiya; many of these were eventually pulled in by the planet's gravity well. 

The mass effect drive cores of these ships broke apart, dumping refined element zero over large stretches of the landscape. This poisoned the environment and a wave of extinctions followed.

followed up by this doozy:

So what will happen if we destroy hundreds of Reapers on or in orbit over the Earth? The same thing that happened on Eingana will happen on Earth. Refined element zero will poison the environment and wipe out much of the life there.

[...]Earth will become a wasteland with most species on land and in the water dead, including plants
[...]Someday the Earth will probably recover, but that could take tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years. It might even take many millionsof years depending on how catastrohpic and total the die-off is. Humans
can't afford to wait around that long.

Here's an uncomfortable truth Saphra, if many people are misunderstanding what you're saying, then it's you that has the communication problem. Hell, I've been known to confuse people too, it happens.

Saphra Deden wrote...
One ship blowing up and pouring eezo over a colony is not an extinction level event.

If I'm dumb, are you being purposely dense? If you can't see this for what it is, as in a test group then you aren't nearly as intellectually superior as what you claim.

No, I didn't mean that, but I do mean you've got rose tinted glasses on.

It does show distribution patterns focussing on wind conditions, potentially effective clean up operations and even the ratios between infected people, deaths and those that develop biotic tendencies. 

Saphra Deden wrote...
Time constraints? It's not time, it's size. You can't quarantine the whole planet. Well, I suppose you can, but that means nobody can live there. Are you gonna order all the woodland animals off too?

It's mainly time and here's why: if you can't clear up everything (everything in this case may not necessarily mean 'everything', but what is important) within a reasonable amount of ...time... then eezo could pass through the water table and be soaked up through plant matter. It's impossible to scour clean every nook and cranny of the planet, but that doesn't mean you can't set up controlled zones in certain area's to 'filter' out eezo (assuming we can of course) with the eventual goal of cleaning most habitable areas out. What does 'cleaning out' an area entail? filtering plant soil? Shipping in new 'clean crops,' finding ways to chemically neutralize element zero.

On the plus side though; Earth would be worth a fortune in mining so we shouldn't lack for an economy.

[Sisterofshane]

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]Sisterofshane wrote...

Okay, back to the original argument, because now we are just nitpicking
bits and pieces of everyone's posts and are repeating the same arguments
over and over.  Let's get some new perspective on this.[/quote]

Why do I have this sinking feeling as I delve into this post that my response will involve me having to repeat myself over and over again? Is it because you and others have repeatedly misconstrued my arguments time and time again? Yes, I think that will be the case.[/quote]

Your argument has not been misconstrued, it is just not accepted.  Bitter pill to swallow, but there it is.


[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]SisterofShane wrote...

I believe that the governments of Earth would start an emergency contigency plan, obviously on a wide scale.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm sure they would. Stellar prediction there.


On paper that's all you need to say. A brilliant mind such as yours should be at FEMA.[/quote]

If' it's so obvious to you, why haven't you mentioned anything about it before?  Oh, that's right, because according to your OP we shouldn't even try. 

"Oh look, too much Eezo, let's just leave!  I know, we can become Reapers ourselves!  Then we wouldn't need a planet!"

[sarcasm] Now THAT is a brilliant plan![/sarcasm] *rolls eyes*

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...


Thing is, having a plan in place and actually carrying it out are two different things. Where will you get the manpower? Where will you get the vehicles? Precisely HOW are you going to clean all this eezo up before it poisons the environment? What technology are you deploying here? I'd at least like some vague concepts here.[/quote]

You are talking about a fictional future in which it is possible to travel FASTER THEN THE SPEED OF LIGHT.  You truly don't believe that there would be some sort of technological advancement in the cleaning of toxic materials?  No wonder you think we can't beat the Reapers.

The man power is on the planet itself.  Duh.  Even if not every individual citizen doesn't participate in cleaning up, you bet most people will.  And the all of these multi-billion "credit" corporations are definitely going to help facilitate this by offering incentives.  That's where we get the manpower in the present, why should it be any different in the future?  That said, a large portion of the 11 billion people on this planet working with the similar goal of cleaning up the planet?  Even if only half particpate, that's the current population of Earth now.  Manpower is not a problem.

And vague concepts?  Fine, then reprogramming all of our mechs to be able to clean up and store eezo in compartments to be shipped off to buyers off world.  Think WALL-E; not really that difficult for a genius like you to compare, right? Yes, we pick the damn Eezo up with shovels if we have to and put it on transports.  You're wasting everyone's time by forcing me to invent ways to use the technology in a fictional game.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...


Do you know how big a planet is? How about just one continent? Are you going to gather up some volunteers, grab vaccumes, and start sucking up all the eezo layered all throughout the Sierra Nevada Mountain Range? What about the Andies? How about the Amazon? The Rockies? 

How will you purify the Colorado river? What about the Great Barrier Reef or the Yellow River?

Once again: do you actually understand how big a planet is?[/quote]

You know, I really went through all this in my post.  I admitted that it would be a huge, costly undertaking.  I even admitted that there would be loss of life ( presumably from the loss of habitats).  And really, in a game where we can mine planets from orbit, and society is beginning to research terra-forming ( the art of SHAPING a habitat to grow the way you want it) maybe it is that easy.  Really, is it going to be any harder than a PLANET-WIDE evacuation?

If it is so easy to evacuate such a population, why didn't the Hanar rescue ALL of the Drell?

Maybe instead of asking me if I know how big a planet is, you should be asking yourself why you couldn't possibly believe that cleaning up a planet is possible in a game where people can use there bodies to create dark energy and move objects!  We're talking about about a future where today's top scientists couldn't dream of recreating some of the technology.  You can't really look at those things from today's perspective.  That's like asking pioneers to imagine a world in which people could travel across the country in the air in a matter of hours, instead of by wagon in several months.  It requires a certain *suspension of disbelief*.


[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]SisterofShane wrote...

That is at least an entire generation of humans/animals having to suffer the effects of Eezo exposure in utero.[/quote]

No, it is many, many generations. It isn't just humans. It's every organism in the ecosystem, possibly including plants.

Those birth defects and cancers will be even more prounced in the "third world" and especially amongst the wild-life who aren't savvy enough to get treatment. You know, because they're animals. None the less, we depend on them.

Earth won't literally die, I didn't say it would. I said it would recover and life would adapt. However for the foreseeable future it's value may be severely diminished. People probably won't want to live in a place that has such high incidents of cancers and birth defects. There will be some profit in recovering the eezo dust and that's about it. Even that may not be worth the expense considering it will in most cases be spread out over too large of an area to make recovery practicle. [/quote]

It's really easy to argue against only one sentence of a paragraph.  No, really watch, I'll do it :

"I said it would recover and that life would adapt." (direct quote from above)
 My rebuttal to said sentence:
"Good.  I'm glad that you admit that you were wrong about Earth being a total loss."

See?  If you choose to ignore most of what I write, and just pick the choice sentence to argue against so that it looks you are smarter in your post, then of course you are going to win an argument. Mind you,though, you are not playing with a full deck of cards.

But, back to the argument at hand, no.  It wouldn't be many, many generations.  Two, maybe three.  It would involve people exercising caution when choosing to procreate.  It will be a very rough, challenging existence. All of which I admitted to in my last post.  But does it necessarily mean that we will abandon Earth?  No.  Krogan still live on Tuchanka, and that place is a dump.  And we certainly have more loyalty to our home planet then the Krogan.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]SisterofShane wrote...

As for vegetation, it never says on Eingana that there was any effect on the plant life.[/quote]

It also never says it didn't.

Why don't we take the smart path here, the cautious path, and assume it may affect plant life as well? Plants especially are vulnerable to soil composition, after all.

You also realize that plants aren't the only food source in existence, right? Animals eat other animals and even plants benefit from animal droppings and carcasses. Depending on which species die off the ecosystem could collapse. Those species might not die off directly from the eezo exposure. It may be that cancers and birth defects just lower their populations to unsustainable levels, which may cause animals which prey upon them to suffer the same fate. [/quote]

There you go again, chopping up my words.  I already admitted to most of it.  Especially to the part that some species might go extinct.  Really, for it to matter, you would have to eliminate a part of the food chain so completely that the rest of the food chain would be unable to adapt, and it would cause the ripple effect that I was talking about.  I just went about one way of describing how it might happen, the easiest way, you know, take out the bottom of the tower and the whole thing collapses?

And if I were to assume anything, I would only do so on the basis that there was evidence to back it up.  There is none in this case.  Nothing to suggest that Eezo messes with soil composition, or that it would be toxic at all to anything already living at the time of exposure.  If exposure can be decreased over time, wouldn't it be enough to assume that we could save at least some life?  Every single generation for a long, long time would have to be exposed in some way for any of this to matter.  We're talking at least hundreds of years.  If we can't have most of earth cleaned up by then, well, then we deserve to be oblitered by an ancient form of artificial intelligence bent on the anhilation of all organic life.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]SisterofShane wrote...
 
Yes, they  (Reapers) may have mass effect cores of extraordinary size...[/quote]

We know they do.

Remember, (for possibly the twentieth time), we are talking about large amounts of eezo here. Even a few dozen Reapers being destroyed would probably release a lot. We may very well wind up destroying dozens of Reapers. That's not counting all the friendly ships destroyed as well.

Eezo may not be that toxic in small amounts, maybe not even toxic at all. However we're talking about a lot and anyone living on Earth would risk being exposed to it very often.

Fun fact: too much of anything can poison you. [/quote]

Really?  Quote me the codex that says that Reapers have giant mass effect cores.  I want specifics.  Oh, that's right, there isn't one.  Anything anyone says (other than a dev) about the Reapers is just wild speculation at this point.  The only truth to your statments it that, for organic civilizations, the larger the ship, the larger the core.

It is possible that the Reapers are advanced enough to use relatively small amounts of eezo compared to their size.  After all, they have had millions upon millions of years to refine their technology to be as efficient as possible.  The less resources they use up, the more time they can spen concentrating on Reaping, and less hibernating.

And I believe the saying is closer to "Too much of anything can *kill* you".  Not poison.  I can't be poisoned by laughter. Or sound waves.  It's too ridiculous to think about.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]SisterofShane wrote...

The creatures of Eingana were exposed to many many years of Eezo, with no means of avoiding it or getting rid of it,[/quote]

So will the creatures of Earth, dummy.

[/quote]

*sigh*  I've been trying to show you that it's not the same.  Never will be, because in MANY POSSIBLE SCENARIOS, there will be direct human intervention.  We're talking the difference of being exposed to Eezo for thousands of years until it naturally degrades into something harmless, versus a few hundred (which I consider to be worst case) because it will be removed before it gets a chance to degrade.  You can't possibly tell me that it would have the exact same effect on the planet with the conditions I've stated above.


And you can call me a dummy.  I don't care.  Because I remember a little thing about insanity...
"To repeat an action, even though the known result is failure, is the definition of insanity."

I disproved the toxicity level of Eezo would be enough in and of itself to cause extinction.
   And you claim that all of Earth would be contaminated to the point of no return.
I cited specific cases in which humanity was able to overcome disease and die off in spite of the environment.
   And you claim that all of Earth would be contaminated to the point of no return.
I create a run-down scenario of why Earth=/=Eingana, based upon what I know of human history in the face of widespread distruction and catastrophic contamination.

And your final argument is that Earth will be contaminated to the point of no return.

If it feels like you are beating a dead horse, that would be because you are.

[Arijharn]

The thought that the theory that Reapers have giant mass effect cores reaches back to ME1 when on Eden Prime they see Sovereign take off, I think that's the only time that's mentioned.

I'm not sure about the sense of scale; but I thought the core in the derelict reaper was actually smaller than the tantalus in the original Normandy.

Even still though, even 100 Reapers detonating in Earth orbit is still going to disperse a large amount of Eezo into the environment. I think Saphra has at least a point in saying that such a ratio of a substance being introduced into an environment otherwise unconditioned to evolve a response to it is going to be pretty damn detrimental, although how detrimental I'm unsure.

EDIT2: Just checking the wikia, but there is a Codex entry that makes mention that "Reapers" (must) have massive mass effect cores (whoa, tongue twister), for comparison: Here is the mass effect wiki article on Sovereign
The first paragraph I do believe is it's codex entry, but I don't have access atm to ME or ME2 to verify.

Modifié par Arijharn, 29 juillet 2011 - 08:56 .

[FoxShadowblade]

Somehow the argument is going to turn to Harbinger and Sovereign bickering over whose Core is bigger...

[dragonavicious]

But Saphra what you are forgetting is, since instead of unlike between concerning for given aside from in accordance with thanks to within because of also regardless of with respect to despite absent inside of prior to.

[Arijharn]

..wtf?