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We Can't Save Earth, We Can't Beat the Reapers


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#651
Sisterofshane

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Another thing to remember, SisterofShane, is this:

It is true that for Eingana the races fighting over it apparently made no significant effort to clean it up.

With Earth certainly we will try to minimize the damage. However that only slightly reduces the scale of the problem because while the numbers of ships destroyed may be about the same, the mass effect cores and thus the amount of eezo leaked out will be far greater.

If you'd detonated hundreds of Reapers over Eingana instead of much smaller organic-built ships then the consequences would have likely been a lot more severe.

Your clean-up efforts may repair or prevent some of the damage, but I just don't think you can hope to launch a clean-up operation of a large enough scale to prevent the worst of the damage.

It's a planet. It's just impractical.


You say this, but you have no evidence to back up that a Reaper's core is relative to the size of cores in the ships of organics.
Which is, to say, a stupid assumption for  surrending to an enemy who wants nothing more then the end of your life as you know it.

And it went from impossible to impractical.  Well, sometimes we have to deal with impracticality.  It may be impractical for me to move across country when my husband gets a better job, but if it offers my family a better life through financial security, I'm gonna grit my teeth and bear with the move.  It may be impractical to send my child to school, because it conflicts with my work schedule, but the opportunity of an education for her is worth whatever struggle there is for me.

It may be impractical to clean up a planet, but if my posterity gets to enjoy the rich, verdant life on a planet full of invaluable culture and history, I'm gonna do it.

And if you do not want to be so inconvienced, fine.  Lets agree to disagree on that at least.  As I pass your liquefiying body and you scream at me in horror as you get turned into a Reaper, I'll try to remember that it's what you wanted, and go back to killing husks. I'll leave your putrefying corpse alone.  The Reapers can have people like you, the worst examples of human nature, and I wouldn't want to share any of my glorified legacy with you anyway.

#652
Sisterofshane

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XyleJKH wrote...

Never give up. Never surrender.


Love Galaxy Quest!  You just made my night!

#653
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Sisterofshane wrote...

It may be impractical to clean up a planet, but if my posterity gets to enjoy the rich, verdant life on a planet full of invaluable culture and history, I'm gonna do it.


I didn't say you shouldn't.

#654
SandTrout

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

It may be impractical to clean up a planet, but if my posterity gets to enjoy the rich, verdant life on a planet full of invaluable culture and history, I'm gonna do it.


I didn't say you shouldn't.

Yes, you did.

#655
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Sisterofshane wrote...

"Earth will become a wasteland with most species on land and in the water dead, including plants."


Oh my, now look at who is cherry picking sentences to backup her argument...

I understand hyperbole. So well that I worked it into my introductory post intentionally to stir debate.

Laying out the worst case scenario gives us a good place to start the discussion.

Sisterofshane wrote...

The whole point of submitting to the Reapers would be that even were we to defeat them in combat, Humanity is doomed anyway.  You insinuate  that if Earth falls, and you claim without a doubt that it will, humanity will follow.  You have only one specific example of evidence as of yet to support this original claim.


What examples do you have that support your claim?


SisterofShane wrote...

The only way for toxic rain to form is for molecules in a gaseous state to mix with molecules in the water up in the atmosphere, throwing off it's nearly neutral pH and coming down as an acidic solution.


I didn't say anything about toxic rain or acid rain.

Thanks for demonstrating once again that you are misinformed though.

Be it volcanic ash or smoke from a forest fire particles can get into the air and come down again when it rains.


SisterofShane wrote...

Cancers, birth defects, possible waves of extinctions in the second generation after initial exposure.

Which is the proven theory.  Thank you for clearing that up.  It makes my argument a lot easier when you actually prove my point.


How does this in any way prove your theory?

#656
Sisterofshane

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

It may be impractical to clean up a planet, but if my posterity gets to enjoy the rich, verdant life on a planet full of invaluable culture and history, I'm gonna do it.


I didn't say you shouldn't.


That's the entire reason for this forum!  That we should abandon Earth and all organic life to become Reapers!
You can't spend entire posts telling me that it's impossible to clean up a planet, and tell me you never said I should.  You're trying to convince me not to, and join you over on the darkside where we can hibernate in darkspace and dream about the good old days when we weren't horrible machines of destruction and we had seperate concsiousness and the will to develop along paths we choose.

So yes, yes for all intensive purposes you are telling me that I shouldn't.

#657
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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SandTrout wrote...

Yes, you did.


No, I didn't.

#658
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Sisterofshane wrote...

That's the entire reason for this forum!


Really? Bioware created this entire forum just for me to say something I haven't said? Well now I feel like I've let them down.

SisterofShane wrote...

That we should abandon Earth and all organic life to become Reapers!


That's not the same. If we join with the Reapers during the war then we'll never need to clean up Earth in the first place.


Sisterofshane wrote...

So yes, yes for all intensive purposes you are telling me that I shouldn't.


It's "Intents and purposes", by the way.

#659
Humanoid_Typhoon

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lol,read about how we can't save the Earth(but we actually can)

#660
Sisterofshane

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

"Earth will become a wasteland with most species on land and in the water dead, including plants."


Oh my, now look at who is cherry picking sentences to backup her argument...

I understand hyperbole. So well that I worked it into my introductory post intentionally to stir debate.

Laying out the worst case scenario gives us a good place to start the discussion.


Sisterofshane wrote...

The whole point of submitting to the Reapers would be that even were we to defeat them in combat, Humanity is doomed anyway.  You insinuate  that if Earth falls, and you claim without a doubt that it will, humanity will follow.  You have only one specific example of evidence as of yet to support this original claim.


What examples do you have that support your claim?




So you purposefully mislead the readers to invoke an emotional
response, and it did.  Big whoop.  You like the debate and the drama. 
It's why you started this thread, it's why you link to it in your
signature, and it's why you continually keep trying to provoke people by
insulting them.


But you have a shoddy case, at best, for your argument.  If this were a murder investigation, it would never go to trial.


So
let's not trivialize the matter.  Do you have anything new or relevent
to add to your case?  Because going back and repeating the same phrase
ad naseum is going to bore your audience, and eventually people stop
reading, and you don't get your attention.  I'd really hate for you to
have to start this thread again, so maybe this would be time to come up
with something - anything - new to support your argument.

Or I can list my examples here, yet again, of my evidence.  I could use the bullets again if you want.

Saphra Deden wrote...

SisterofShane wrote...

The only way for toxic rain to form is for molecules in a gaseous state to mix with molecules in the water up in the atmosphere, throwing off it's nearly neutral pH and coming down as an acidic solution.


I didn't say anything about toxic rain or acid rain.

Thanks for demonstrating once again that you are misinformed though.

Be it volcanic ash or smoke from a forest fire particles can get into the air and come down again when it rains.


Wasn't misinformed.  I misunderstood you, probably because you misunderstood me.  I clearly stated that there was no proof that it would contaminate our WEATHER SYSTEM, and be spread by THE RAIN.  And you brought up dust.
And yes, the air will be polluted.  But not from evaporation of eezo in the water, which is clearly what I said (the eezo not evaporating that is).  And, again, the rain will help to clean the air pollution, it's not a cause for spreading it. I already mentioned that also.  Breathable air = better environment, right?
And, done arguing out the details for that.  You originally stated that the oceans would be contaminated, and that the oceans are intstrumental to our weather cycles. So, now let me clarify my argument:
The eezo contained in the oceans/lakes/rivers will be of little concern to our weather system because it cannot evaporate and be spread through means of toxic rain.  Any eezo spread through the air, would have to have been there in the first place. *facepalm*

Saphra Deden wrote...

SisterofShane wrote...

Cancers, birth defects, possible waves of extinctions in the second generation after initial exposure.

Which is the proven theory.  Thank you for clearing that up.  It makes my argument a lot easier when you actually prove my point.


How does this in any way prove your theory?



Not my theory.  The theory in game. 

And here is one of the cases where you are intentionally misleading people within this thread.  You use that phrase "Cancers, birth defects, waves of extinction" over and over, as if it's your mantra.  Nobody has ever disagreed with the possible side effects (apart from extinction) of Eezo exposure, but you refuse to admit the Eezo is only toxic to UNBORN fetuses.  But you use it as one of your arguments as if that is not the case.  There is an important distinction between being toxic to fetuses, and being toxic to every being.
 
If toxic to every being, the effects are immediate, and if large enough exposure occurs, can be fatally catastrophic to a species.  Think nuclear fallout.

If it is toxic only in utero (which all in game evidence supports that this is the case with Eezo), then only the fetus is in any danger of damage (there are many drugs now a days to support this, toxic to developing fetuses, safe for adults).  Yes, there will be many still be many deaths, but in order for this to be catastrophic to a species, repeated, GENERATIONAL exposure will need to happen, until, said species is left at unsustainable population levels.  This type of  "fall-out" (and I use the term loosely) takes MANY MANY YEARS, especially for large populations, as in HUMANS ON EARTH.

So quit saying "Cancers, birth defects, waves of extinction" as if it would immediately occur.  It won't.

#661
SandTrout

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Let it die, sis. Let it die.

#662
Sisterofshane

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

That's the entire reason for this forum!


Really? Bioware created this entire forum just for me to say something I haven't said? Well now I feel like I've let them down.

SisterofShane wrote...

That we should abandon Earth and all organic life to become Reapers!


That's not the same. If we join with the Reapers during the war then we'll never need to clean up Earth in the first place.


Sisterofshane wrote...

So yes, yes for all intensive purposes you are telling me that I shouldn't.


It's "Intents and purposes", by the way.


I'm so sorry that I said forum.  I meant thread, and it's getting quite late over here. (For an old fuddy-duddy such as myself, anyway.)

And oooooh, I got an idiom wrong.  Wasn't the first time and it won't be the last.  After all, I'm only human. :D

And we wouldn't be "joining" the Reapers,  It's not a club.  We won't have secret handshakes.  We won't even have hands anymore.  We will be assimilated, violently and horrificly.  Then we will be erased.  Not my ideal Friday night.

#663
Sisterofshane

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SandTrout wrote...

Let it die, sis. Let it die.


Oh SandTrout if only I could.  But, just like Saphra, I really REALLY like to argue.
And I really REALLY REALLY like mass effect.
And so I continue...

#664
Someone With Mass

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If eezo can cause tumors and such in everything, then the mothers of those fetuses would be at risk too. But there are no reports of such events, where the mother died of tumors and such.

And guess what the drug red sand contains. That's right. Element zero. And some people are doing that drug all the time without getting any tumors.

By the way, did you know that Shepard survived a second element zero exposure in 2168, when (s)he was 14 years old?

#665
Sisterofshane

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Someone With Mass wrote...

If eezo can cause tumors and such in everything, then the mothers of those fetuses would be at risk too. But there are no reports of such events, where the mother died of tumors and such.

And guess what the drug red sand contains. That's right. Element zero. And some people are doing that drug all the time without getting any tumors.

By the way, did you know that Shepard survived a second element zero exposure in 2168, when (s)he was 14 years old?



Not only did Shepard survive a second eezo exposure, if he/she had biotic abilities, this exposure would have been INTENTIONAL!   So, yeah.  Eezo is not such a deadly boogeyman.

#666
Praetor Knight

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Sisterofshane wrote...

Not only did Shepard survive a second eezo exposure, if he/she had biotic abilities, this exposure would have been INTENTIONAL!   So, yeah.  Eezo is not such a deadly boogeyman.


I figure what the Reapers are capable of, should be the greater concern.

So no people smoothies, if it can be helped.

Edit: Gah, forgot an "i" :(

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 30 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .


#667
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Sisterofshane wrote...

But you have a shoddy case, at best, for your argument.  If this were a murder investigation, it would never go to trial.


Thankfully this is not a murder investigation.


Sisterofshane wrote...

So let's not trivialize the matter.  Do you have anything new or relevent
to add to your case?


Do you? I've laid out my evidence and I've got more of it than you do.

Again, for old times sake:

Eingana

...is a hot, beautiful, and deadly world, covered with the debris of
ancient starships. Approximately 127,000 years ago, a series of battles
were fought over it by two organic species, the thoi'han and the
inusannon. Although no records of the conflict remain, most historians
agree that both races wanted to colonize Eingana, and neither were
willing to share. The two lost hundreds of ships in a series of battles
over Eingana and its moon, Barraiya; many of these were eventually
pulled in by the planet's gravity well.
The mass effect drive cores of these ships broke apart, dumping
refined element zero over large stretches of the landscape. This
poisoned the environment and a wave of extinctions followed.
Many of the
animal species that remained showed a tendancy to develop biotic
powers. As the ecology of Eingana is energetic and aggressive, this
makes colonization a deadly peril.


Then we have the accounts of the eezo exposures which in some cases caused birth defects and cancers.

We also have the ME3 description for Thessia that states there are indeed negative effects of eezo (which it doesn't list). However this is nothing new since ME1 and ME2 made this clear already.

Shepard was lucky.

Sisterofthane wrote...

The eezo contained in the oceans/lakes/rivers will be of little concern to our weather system because it cannot evaporate and be spread through means of toxic rain.  Any eezo spread through the air, would have to have been there in the first place. *facepalm*


Yes, I will agree to that.

Sisterofshane wrote...

Not my theory.  The theory in game.


What theory would that be? 

Sisterofshane wrote...

you refuse to admit the Eezo is only toxic to UNBORN fetuses.


How do we know this?

In small amounts it may be relatively harmless to adults, sure. After all adults are a lot bigger and healthier. However a fetus is still developing. That's why alcohol is (relatively) harmless for an adult but even a little bit can ruin your unborn kid.

It's like with the mice again. A small exposure for a human is a huge exposure for a small animal.

#668
Pride Demon

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Kill it with fire.

I still think our best bet involves Thresher Maws... Lots of Thresher maws...
I'd love to see their faces when they notice Thresher acid bypasses shields completely and melts through armour...

Basically...
*Thresher spits*
Harbinger: We are the Harbinger of... *spit connects* Holy Protheans! I'm melting! I'm Meeeltiiiiiiing!
Shepard: Muhahaha! *ominous lighting effect in the background*
Ok... I'm jesting with this last part, but the first part stands... :)

#669
Guest_darkness reborn_*

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Pride Demon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Kill it with fire.

I still think our best bet involves Thresher Maws... Lots of Thresher maws...
I'd love to see their faces when they notice Thresher acid bypasses shields completely and melts through armour...

Basically...
*Thresher spits*
Harbinger: We are the Harbinger of... *spit connects* Holy Protheans! I'm melting! I'm Meeeltiiiiiiing!
Shepard: Muhahaha! *ominous lighting effect in the background*
Ok... I'm jesting with this last part, but the first part stands... :)

Heavy risk...

#670
Praetor Knight

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darkness reborn wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Kill it with fire.

I still think our best bet involves Thresher Maws... Lots of Thresher maws...
I'd love to see their faces when they notice Thresher acid bypasses shields completely and melts through armour...

Basically...
*Thresher spits*
Harbinger: We are the Harbinger of... *spit connects* Holy Protheans! I'm melting! I'm Meeeltiiiiiiing!
Shepard: Muhahaha! *ominous lighting effect in the background*
Ok... I'm jesting with this last part, but the first part stands... :)

Heavy risk...

But the priiize... :wizard:

#671
Bogsnot1

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Praetor Shepard wrote...

darkness reborn wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Kill it with fire.

I still think our best bet involves Thresher Maws... Lots of Thresher maws...
I'd love to see their faces when they notice Thresher acid bypasses shields completely and melts through armour...

Basically...
*Thresher spits*
Harbinger: We are the Harbinger of... *spit connects* Holy Protheans! I'm melting! I'm Meeeltiiiiiiing!
Shepard: Muhahaha! *ominous lighting effect in the background*
Ok... I'm jesting with this last part, but the first part stands... :)

Heavy risk...

But the priiize... :wizard:


We shall ride the Thresher Maws to victory. The Eezo must flow!

#672
SandTrout

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Bogsnot1 wrote...

We shall ride the Thresher Maws to victory. The Eezo must flow!

For Muadib! Er, I mean, For Shepard!

#673
Pride Demon

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I see I sparked a bit of a comedy streak... :P
But actually I was being serious...

Threshers are resilient to just about anything, their spores can survive orbital reentry and they themselves can survive in utter vacuum, since there's one on this planet...
Their acid bypasses shields and melts thorugh armour, and Reapers have nigh impenetrable shields, but their armour appears to be average at best (a single shot from the Normandy is all it takes to penetrate Sovvie's once its shields are down)...

Employing Thresher acid in fighting the Reapers could be a smart move, Threshers are too big a Chekov's gun to be totally irrelevant in the plot, at least in my opinion...

Modifié par Pride Demon, 30 juillet 2011 - 10:58 .


#674
Melra

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We -will- hold the line! Tra la la la.

#675
SandTrout

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There are reports of a super-sized thresher maw and a Reaper getting into a wrestling match. I am curious as to who will win that, though my bet is still on the Reaper. This is mainly based on a theory I have that the Reapers' outer shell is made primarily of carbon nano-tubes and diamond-like crystal, and therefor would resist most corrosive compounds.