2463 réponses à ce sujet

[Swimming Ferret]

The only way the Reapers would get my Shepard to give up is for Harbinger to offer himself up in marriage.

[Sisterofshane]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

The only way the Reapers would get my Shepard to give up is for Harbinger to offer himself up in marriage.

 
^I endorse this ending only if the Super-Eezo-Friends make up the entirety of the wedding party, and the Turian Councilor is the Officiate.

[SandTrout]

FullmetalJ wrote...

But when we destoyed the core of the derelict reaper, didn't it just more or less fizzle and die? I can't remember it megasploding. One could argue that It was an old reaper, and the core was "stale" or something, but I don't think that reapers have any form of maintainence.

The eezo core would not be the source of the explosion, that would be the power supply, weather it's fission, fusion, or anti-matter.

Also I doubt the reapers would lets us join them, we have provoked them and they haven't let any race in the cycle survive since the beginning, save the keepers and collectors, which my as well be dead.

Have you played ME2 through?

Also, say they do let us live, that all of humanity decides to be their servants and what I mentioned above doesn't happen, that they don't kill us all or turn us into undead insects. After a while the indoctrination would destroy our minds, just like the protheans, and what did they do with them? They Left them to rot, due to the fact that they physically couldn't think for themselves any more.

The premise is that they would turn us into a Reaper, which Saphra considers preferable to being ignominiously wiped out.

[Swimming Ferret]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

The only way the Reapers would get my Shepard to give up is for Harbinger to offer himself up in marriage.

 
^I endorse this ending only if the Super-Eezo-Friends make up the entirety of the wedding party, and the Turian Councilor is the Officiate.

I LIKE THAT IDEA.

[Grey34]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Birth defects and cancers only occured in <40% of fetuses that lack the adequate genetic trait to deal with eezo.

That's still a significant amount. That's also only humans. What about other species? We are also potentially dealing with much larger proportions of eezo here. Remember, these people won't be expoed to eezo from just one accident, but from potentially hundres of ruptured cores.

How can you not understand this? The cancer rates and numbers of birth defects could dramatically increase as a result.

You should get a job with a ****ing tobacco comanpy.

SandtTrout wrote...

True, but your premise regarding the amount of eezo contamination is also an assumption. An assumption based on an example, but an assumption none the less. My assumption is based on the premise that we have a reasonable means of eezo cleanup, just like we have for oil today.

Ah, now we get to the heart of it. My assumption is based on an example and yours is based on nothing more than a belief.

well your example is pretty flimsey at best  that example doesn't  account for the other viables like constant war  would also lead to destruction of animal habitats. eezo wouldn't of helped but i don't think it was the sole reason. the world become uninhabitable

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Yes, we will see an increase in birth defects and cancer. I never challenged this basic point. I simply nullified the notion that the result would be extinction. It would not.

I never said it would kill the entire human race.

I do wonder though, if your theory is so solid then how does it explain Eingana?

There should have been no extinctions according to you.

Even the in game scholars can't truly explain what happened to Eingana.
And the reason that they theorize that the Eezo caused the extinction is that they have no concept, or refuse to believe the concept of a Reaper.
We have proof of the extinction *process of the Reapers.  We know that they erase as much of their presence/ the presence of the sentient life as possible.  Is it too much to assume that the hundreds of ships that were destroyed were destroyed united against a Reaper Fleet, and that then Reapers commenced at "Reaping" the planet, and the fact that all new life forms on Eingana developed naturally amongst all of the distributed Eezo had nothing to do with the fact that they were facing extinction, but rather it was more akin to the Asari on Thessia?

There's just as much evidence in the game to prove that my theory is the correct one.  Care to dispute it?

Edit: Left out this key word

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 02 août 2011 - 07:10 .

[SandTrout]

I never said it would kill the entire human race.

Then why is it a basis for surrender to the Reapers? You brought it up in you initial post, and have refused to concede the point.

I do wonder though, if your theory is so solid then how does it explain Eingana?

Some species went extinct, obviously a lot didn't. Humanity is not likely to be among the species on Earth that will go extinct due to eezo exposure. What else is there to explain?

There should have been no extinctions according to you.

Absolutely untrue. My point has always been that Humanity will not go extinct, and therefor there are no grounds to accept surrender to the Reapers. Not all species are as resistant to eezo as ours, and there may be some extinctions. We can work around those, though.

Also, Eingana had no cleanup efforts at all. Do we really need to rehash that topic?

Modifié par SandTrout, 02 août 2011 - 07:12 .

[FullmetalJ]

SandTrout wrote...

FullmetalJ wrote...

But when we destoyed the core of the derelict reaper, didn't it just more or less fizzle and die? I can't remember it megasploding. One could argue that It was an old reaper, and the core was "stale" or something, but I don't think that reapers have any form of maintainence.

The eezo core would not be the source of the explosion, that would be the power supply, weather it's fission, fusion, or anti-matter.

Also I doubt the reapers would lets us join them, we have provoked them and they haven't let any race in the cycle survive since the beginning, save the keepers and collectors, which my as well be dead.

Have you played ME2 through?

Also, say they do let us live, that all of humanity decides to be their servants and what I mentioned above doesn't happen, that they don't kill us all or turn us into undead insects. After a while the indoctrination would destroy our minds, just like the protheans, and what did they do with them? They Left them to rot, due to the fact that they physically couldn't think for themselves any more.

The premise is that they would turn us into a Reaper, which Saphra considers preferable to being ignominiously wiped out.

Have I played ME2? More than i'm proud of. I don't understand what you are getting at.
I think you meant for those two comments we meant to be connected or something....
The majority of people destroyed their only means of turning us into a reaper (unless they build another one.)
The collecters don't think for themselves, neither do the keepers, as mordin says, "more like husks than servants".

[SandTrout]

You were talking like someone was expecting the Reapers to let us live as anything other than a Reaper, which kind of implied that you did not realize that the Reapers are trying to 'ascend' us.

The majority of people destroyed their only means of turning us into a reaper (unless they build another one.)

The premise that the CB was the only means for the creation of a Reaper is deeply flawed. Not only were the Reapers reaping long before the collectors (Protheans) were around, but they would by their nature able to construct another means to start the process. They know the technology, so there is no good reason to believe that they cannot recreate it or have some spares laying around.

Again, no one is arguing on the premise that the Reapers will let humanity live as 'servants'. The only surrender option that has been mentioned is becoming a Reaper.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Even the in game scholars can't truly explain what happened to Eingana.

Yes they can and they do in the planet description.

But it clearly says most historians agree. and you clearly said

Saphra Deden wrote...
It's a fallacy to argue that one person is right because they are more popular.

...Clearly.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 02 août 2011 - 07:39 .

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Then why is it a basis for surrender to the Reapers?

That is more complicated and it is adressed in my introductory post.

So because we loose military and economic standing, you think that justifies surrender to the Reapers?

There's no proof clean-up efforts will make a sizable dent in the problem. You like to assume you can clean up all the eezo rather quickly. You also like to invent your own numbers to support your position.

What if you can't clean it up in 5 years or in 25 years?

So, you are saying that with every major piece of technology in use in ME using eezo in some format or another, that we would not have an efficient means of cleanup? Even though there is obviously some means of cleanup based on the fact that exposed colonies (and places on earth) have not suffered these kinds of exposures on a multi-generational time-scale?

Also, if we cannot viably clean up in 25 years, that's still enough time to get the majority off planet and to the colonies, if necessary.

If these issues do not present us with the threat of extinction, then I do not accept them as valid reasons to advocate surrender to the Reapers.

I have already stated the strategic advantage of production in other parts of this thread that acts as a counter-argument to your final (and only valid) premise for surrender: that the Reapers are simply too powerful. They may well be, but we have a non-zero chance of success, IMO.

[Nobunaga-Oda]

No one tells me (thus my shepard) that something is impossible....WE STRAP ON OUR BOOTS GRAB A RIFLE AND GET GOING.

Life gives you lemons get the acid in the reapers drive core! mwa ha ha ha

[Grey34]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Grey34 wrote...

well your example is pretty flimsey at best  that example doesn't  account for the other viables like constant war  would also lead to destruction of animal habitats. eezo wouldn't of helped but i don't think it was the sole reason. the world become uninhabitable

The entry for Eingana tells us exactly what caused the extinctions.

You are just inventing alternate reasons so that you can defend your ignorant position. That goes for all of you.

   i know, i thought i might make you go around in cycles. i wonder how many times you used that already?

"that goes for all of you"

 if you just going to ignore all arguements except you own why stay?

i know why  but i think you already know






 

[Bogsnot1]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Arguing that one position or poster is more popular than another does not prove anything except that you don't know how to debate.

You're tendency to insult those who outwit and counter your every argument is just as sure a sign of an inability to debate.

Yours is based on nothing but faith and a poor grasp of scale, math, and logistics. 

Actually, thats your argument. All others arguments made against you, have incorporated real world knowledge (ie gravity, contaminent cleanup operations), application of scale and math, and this handy little thing called logic.

Sisterofshane wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Why are peoples real world assumptions less valid then saphras in game assumption?

Because she's not living in reality.
And it's easier to claim invalidity than to prove it.

 

Actually, its because she has been scared of Eezo contaminated food and has been importing hers from 2175 Aeia. 

[FullmetalJ]

Again, no one is arguing on the premise that the Reapers will let humanity live as 'servants'. The only surrender option that has been mentioned is becoming a Reaper.

I agree, I never expected them to.
I'm just going off what vigil said about what happened to the leftover indoctrinated protheans, also I did clearly state that them leaving leftovers was unlikely.
My aguement just assumes that the opposition understands that melting humans down to a grey material and pumping it into a reaper means that the humans in question are no longer human, they are a reaper.
So it is a form of death for humanity, and birth for reapers.

Modifié par FullmetalJ, 02 août 2011 - 09:42 .

[aftohsix]

In response to the title of this thread:

We can't save earth, we can't beat the Reapers....

....But if we can I will post 9,000 threads raging about it and fill it with words like "lore" "retcon" "sell outs"

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

aftohsix wrote...

In response to the title of this thread:

We can't save earth, we can't beat the Reapers....

....But if we can I will post 9,000 threads raging about it and fill it with words like "lore" "retcon" "sell outs"

Ha.