2463 réponses à ce sujet

[szkasypcze]

100k wrote...

Dear lord! This thread went from the power of eezo on a planet, to the elements of story telling in ME2, to the collector base decisions?

Lets just let this die already, and hold hands and sing together.

BE QUIET.

I totally stand for Saphra Deden . You theory is the most evidence based so far and it seems not fall apart when some of the facts form ME1 are taken into consideration. It is a good start point to analyze the most important scene in ME 1 and 2 - the dialogue with the Vigil on Ilos. I think there is the answer on the ME3 outcome.

What I fear is that there is going to be some Deux Ex Machina ending. I know that BW said there are going to be multiple endings based on your decissions, but I think only one concerning the cycle.  And yes. I also think that humanity will end up unified in a Reaper.

Modifié par szkasypcze, 02 août 2011 - 10:55 .

[SJK93]

szkasypcze wrote...

100k wrote...

Dear lord! This thread went from the power of eezo on a planet, to the elements of story telling in ME2, to the collector base decisions?

Lets just let this die already, and hold hands and sing together.

BE QUIET.

I totally stand for Saphra Deden . You theory is the most evidence based so far and it seems not fall apart when some of the facts form ME1 are taken into consideration. It is a good start point to analyze the most important scene in ME 1 and 2 - the dialogue with the Vigil on Ilos. I think there is the answer on the ME3 outcome.

What I fear is that there is going to be some Deux Ex Machina ending. I know that BW said there are going to be multiple endings based on your decissions, but I think only one concerning the cycle.  And yes. I also think that humanity will end up unified in a Reaper.

You seriously think that BioWare would have all endings leading to utter defeat like that? Then what's the point of the series to begin with? It's all been about delivering crushing blows to the Reapers. Nobody's come anywhere near this close to stopping them before. If anyone can beat the Reapers, it's Shepard.

Modifié par SJK93, 02 août 2011 - 11:21 .

[SJK93]

Double post, my bad.

Modifié par SJK93, 02 août 2011 - 11:23 .

[szkasypcze]

SJK93 wrote...

szkasypcze wrote...

100k wrote...

Dear lord! This thread went from the power of eezo on a planet, to the elements of story telling in ME2, to the collector base decisions?

Lets just let this die already, and hold hands and sing together.

BE QUIET.

I totally stand for Saphra Deden . You theory is the most evidence based so far and it seems not fall apart when some of the facts form ME1 are taken into consideration. It is a good start point to analyze the most important scene in ME 1 and 2 - the dialogue with the Vigil on Ilos. I think there is the answer on the ME3 outcome.

What I fear is that there is going to be some Deux Ex Machina ending. I know that BW said there are going to be multiple endings based on your decissions, but I think only one concerning the cycle.  And yes. I also think that humanity will end up unified in a Reaper.

You seriously think that BioWare would have all endings leading to utter defeat like that? Then what's the point of the series to begin with? It's all been about delivering crushing blows to the Reapers. Nobody's come anywhere near this close to stopping them before. If anyone can beat the Reapers, it's Shepard.

I think people are missing the main point. The goal is not to stop the Reapers, but to stop the cycle. And this can be done in may ways. And you say crushing blows?? Last time is costed most of the Turian fleet for just ONE of them.

Modifié par szkasypcze, 02 août 2011 - 11:25 .

[SJK93]

Becoming a Reaper won't stop the cycle. We would just be helping to continue the cycle ourselves. And yes, we have delivered blows to the Reapers. We took out their vanguard, Sovereign, and stopped them from creating a human Reaper, destroying the Collectors in the process. The only way to stop the cycle is to destroy the Reapers. Or at least become such a thorn in their side that they give up and leave. As for the Turian fleet, well, it's war. In war there are sacrifices. People die.

Modifié par SJK93, 02 août 2011 - 11:28 .

[Shimmer_Gloom]

We'll totally beat the Reapers. We'll totally have the help of some kind of McGuffin. And there will be some interesting commentary on what it means to be human and to triumph over adversity along the way...

This is SCIENCE FICTION people! A grand tradition that includes Star Wars and Blade Runner and 2001. Did anybody ever expect HAL to win?

I expect the Bioware guys to be clever but I don't expect them to let me 'lose.' Because whether we win or lose isn't the question. We'll always win. It's HOW that is the interesting part and what happens next.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

We'll totally beat the Reapers. We'll totally have the help of some kind of McGuffin. And there will be some interesting commentary on what it means to be human and to triumph over adversity along the way...

This is SCIENCE FICTION people! A grand tradition that includes Star Wars and Blade Runner and 2001. Did anybody ever expect HAL to win?

I expect the Bioware guys to be clever but I don't expect them to let me 'lose.' Because whether we win or lose isn't the question. We'll always win. It's HOW that is the interesting part and what happens next.

And renegades will totally rage that paragons still win.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 02 août 2011 - 11:45 .

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

I'm also not trying to convince anybody to go submit themselves to the Reapers for processing, based upon one piece of shoddy evidence.

Mmm, I think my evidence holds up pretty well.

Whether you are convinced or not, it won't matter. The choice will be made for you.

You can't stop the inevitable.

Over my dead body.  Literally in this case (the game).
So, like I said earlier, go ahead, jump in your collector pod, and be melted down into nutrient paste.
If I hear you screaming in agony, I'll try to remind myself that it was what you wanted, and keep killing husks on my merry way.

[Sisterofshane]

szkasypcze wrote...

100k wrote...

Dear lord! This thread went from the power of eezo on a planet, to the elements of story telling in ME2, to the collector base decisions?

Lets just let this die already, and hold hands and sing together.

BE QUIET.

I totally stand for Saphra Deden . You theory is the most evidence based so far and it seems not fall apart when some of the facts form ME1 are taken into consideration. It is a good start point to analyze the most important scene in ME 1 and 2 - the dialogue with the Vigil on Ilos. I think there is the answer on the ME3 outcome.

What I fear is that there is going to be some Deux Ex Machina ending. I know that BW said there are going to be multiple endings based on your decissions, but I think only one concerning the cycle.  And yes. I also think that humanity will end up unified in a Reaper.

No, she has based her entire argument upon a lack of evidence.

WE have NO evidence so far as to whether *we* can beat the Reapers or not. (we being the current civilization within the game).
The only thing that we truly know is that every species to have tried before us has failed.
But we also know that the Reapers have now failed, three times, to get into our galaxy and begin the process of "ascension" (or murder, as I like to call it).

That's like saying we have an item of food within a bag, and you think "well I know that's not a pop tart, so I should just throw it away.", at the possiblilty that it might have been something you didn't like to eat.
It could have been an apple.  You could have eaten it, and it would have been better for you in the long run than a pop tart anyway.
And when you're facing starvation, can you really afford not to at least try the food that's in the bag?

[Sisterofshane]

SJK93 wrote...

Becoming a Reaper won't stop the cycle. We would just be helping to continue the cycle ourselves. And yes, we have delivered blows to the Reapers. We took out their vanguard, Sovereign, and stopped them from creating a human Reaper, destroying the Collectors in the process. The only way to stop the cycle is to destroy the Reapers. Or at least become such a thorn in their side that they give up and leave. As for the Turian fleet, well, it's war. In war there are sacrifices. People die.

See? Not totally hopeless.

And, just to point this out, it was not an entire galaxy working together to deliver said blows.  It was really one person, Shepard, and his/her band of misfits.

Shepard 3 : Reapers 0

I'm putting my money on Shep.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra you're not in this discussion anymore remember?

Saphra-"we lose no matter what so we should quit"
Saphra-"saving the base give us a chance at victory so we should keep it"

[SJK93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, it isn't. You aren't thinking logically. Stop listening to your heart and listen to your brain. The Reaper's need not be an enemy. They could be an opportunity if we are willing to open our minds and contemplate another form of existence. 

The Reapers have destroyed millions of civilizations before us, and will continue to do so, should they succeed in wiping us out.. Logic points to doing everything we can to destroy the Reapers. Imagine the trillions of innocent men, women and children who will be murdered. It's worth almost anything to prevent that from happening.

Modifié par SJK93, 03 août 2011 - 02:05 .

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra you're not in this discussion anymore remember?

Saphra-"we lose no matter what so we should quit"
Saphra-"saving the base give us a chance at victory so we should keep it"

I try not to hold other's accountable for statements in other threads.  It keeps the conversation from becoming a mess of he-said-she-said.

:/

But it certainly seems to contradict itself no?

[SJK93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SJK93 wrote...

 Imagine the trillions of innocent man, women and children who will be murdered.

They aren't my problem and I'm certainly not going to sacrifice my species for them.

Yet you want to sacrifice us all anyway for no good reason. If we lose Earth in the fight against the Reapers, then so be it. It's worth it to stop them. It won't be the end of humanity. We have other colonies. And sacrificing ourselves for the good of others would be the ultimate act of selflessness.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Saphra you're not in this discussion anymore remember?

Saphra-"we lose no matter what so we should quit"
Saphra-"saving the base give us a chance at victory so we should keep it"

I try not to hold other's accountable for statements in other threads.  It keeps the conversation from becoming a mess of he-said-she-said.

:/

But it certainly seems to contradict itself no?

I brought it up because she seems to dodge the issue of what she's actually arguing by just insulting everyone who raises the question.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...
I have no plans on joining them until I'm sure the war is lost.

[SJK93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I have no plans on joining them until I'm sure the war is lost.

I thought you were convinced that the war can't be won in the first place.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

No, she has based her entire argument upon a lack of evidence.

WE have NO evidence so far as to whether *we* can beat the Reapers or not.

A
lack of evidence? My evidence is the battle of the Citadel and
knowledge (from the codex) of how interplentary wars are fought. I even
cited the former in my introductory post.

My position based on that is "It is unlikely we can win a war with the Reapers."

Actually, the battle of the citadel proves that we can defeat Reapers.  Because we did.
If we had lost to Sovereign it would have been game over right there.  It may be difficult, but it is possible to destroy them.

And your scenario of the Reapers retreating is likely to happen if they sense a defeat, as we can reasonably expect them to want to survive.

But if an invading enemy retreats and never returns, isn't that, in essence, a victory?  Who ever said that we need to exterminate them completely in order to win?

And if they do return, I like to think that Sand Trout is correct.  They have a very limited amount of themselves, and are unable to replenish their numbers, and probably repair (as evidenced by the derelict reaper). Any loss for them is a permanent loss.

With every retreat that gives us time to replace anything that we have lost.  We know this tactic to work, because of the battle of Stalingrad.  No matter how many were killed, there was always another Russian to replace the one lost, and they eventually won the battle.  It was at an extremely high loss of life, but ask any Russian if they think it was worth it.

So, why is it unlikely that we will defeat the Reapers?

[Sisterofshane]

LMFAO @ Humanoid!!!!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SJK93 wrote...

I thought you were convinced that the war can't be won in the first place.

With what we know right now it can't. Our only hope is that the Collector base provides technological advances or intelligence that will give us an advantage.

Translation-"The cookie might be chocolate chip,but it is possibly raisin,but it is definitely chocolate chip."