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We Can't Save Earth, We Can't Beat the Reapers

Débuté par Guest_Saphra Deden_* , juil. 27 2011 03:02

2463 réponses à ce sujet

#1126
Sisterofshane
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:02

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Why don't you try using your brain?


I use it all the time. I've even been accused of using it too much.

Sisterofshane wrote...

Sovereign did not attack the citadel BY ITSELF.


"Sovereign's too strong! We need to pull back!"

Eat it.

Sisterofshane wrote...

 And You think I'm stupid? Well, it takes one to know one.


You're hilarious.


Okay, so one freakin' pilot wet himself.  It's war, and when faced with possible death, it happens.

The Admiral then corrected said scaredy-cat, because he knew that the stakes were too high for them to lose.

That quote above would only be relevant if the leader of the fleet had said it, and then the fleet had pulled out.
Again, they didn't, and we won.

And accusing you of using your brain too much is the equivalent of accusing a sloth that it moves too slowly.

#1127
SandTrout
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:05

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I think you messed up the analogy at the end, Sis, but otherwise, well put.

#1128
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:05

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Sisterofshane wrote...

Okay, so one freakin' pilot wet himself.  It's war, and when faced with possible death, it happens.

The Admiral then corrected said scaredy-cat, because he knew that the stakes were too high for them to lose.


Hackett is a hero, I agree. However his heroism doesn't change the fact that Sovereign alone did enough damage to our fleet that many of the participants wanted to get the hell out of there.

You know what? **** it.

If even the Battle of the Citadel doesn't worry you then nothing I can say will ever change your mind.

So nevermind.

#1129
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:05

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Saphra Deden wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

That was after being weakened by the geth ships.


Not in my game.

It's evident from the battle that Sovereign by itself was wrecking havock on the fleet so badly they wanted to retreat.

I also saw it with my own eyes blowing apart ships left and right.

If you think we can handle a fight against even just a handful of these Reapers then you're a moron.


Then your game is wrong.

And like I said, that was AFTER the geth engaged in combat.

I did too, but that was AFTER the geth weakened them.

I'm a MORON??? REALLY?????

You know what that statement is?

WRONG!

#1130
SandTrout
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:06

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Hackett is a hero, I agree. However his heroism doesn't change the fact that Sovereign alone did enough damage to our fleet that many of the participants wanted to get the hell out of there.

Moral is not an objective measure of the tactical or strategic situation.

#1131
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:07

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The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I'm a MORON??? REALLY?????


If you honestly think that Sovereign didn't do a number on our fleet all by itself and if you think we are equipped to deal with dozens (or even hundreds) of Sovereign like ships at once, then yes, that is exactly what you are as well as anyone who agrees with you.

#1132
Sisterofshane
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:07

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SandTrout wrote...

I think you messed up the analogy at the end, Sis, but otherwise, well put.

No, I didn't.  I just meant that if someone said that, they didn't mean it as a compliment. So she shouldn't take it as such.

#1133
Sisterofshane
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:08

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Okay, so one freakin' pilot wet himself.  It's war, and when faced with possible death, it happens.

The Admiral then corrected said scaredy-cat, because he knew that the stakes were too high for them to lose.


Hackett is a hero, I agree. However his heroism doesn't change the fact that Sovereign alone did enough damage to our fleet that many of the participants wanted to get the hell out of there.

You know what? **** it.

If even the Battle of the Citadel doesn't worry you then nothing I can say will ever change your mind.

So nevermind.


One point, how does one pilot equal many in a fleet of two-hundred ships?

Point out something practical about that battle and it might change my mind.

#1134
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:11

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Saphra Deden wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I'm a MORON??? REALLY?????


If you honestly think that Sovereign didn't do a number on our fleet all by itself and if you think we are equipped to deal with dozens (or even hundreds) of Sovereign like ships at once, then yes, that is exactly what you are as well as anyone who agrees with you.




And when did I say that? Baseless assumption is baseless.

If the whole galaxy got together, they could probably win (with a little help from a Deus Ex Machina though)

#1135
SandTrout
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:12

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Saphra Deden wrote...

If you honestly think that Sovereign didn't do a number on our fleet all by itself and if you think we are equipped to deal with dozens (or even hundreds) of Sovereign like ships at once, then yes, that is exactly what you are as well as anyone who agrees with you.

No, you are a moron for using one soldier's judgement in the heat of a heavy battle as an objective truth regarding the tactical and strategic stiuation. A judgement that was proven false by the reality of what happened during the battle.

#1136
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:16

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SandTrout wrote...

No, you are a moron for using one soldier's judgement in the heat of a heavy battle as an objective truth regarding the tactical and strategic stiuation. A judgement that was proven false by the reality of what happened during the battle.


I'm not talking about one pilot. I saw the battle happen, I saw the ships being eradicated left and right. I also remember Shepard's analysis of the battle after the fact.

The lot of you have your head so far up your asses you can taste your own boogers.

#1137
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:19

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Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

No, you are a moron for using one soldier's judgement in the heat of a heavy battle as an objective truth regarding the tactical and strategic stiuation. A judgement that was proven false by the reality of what happened during the battle.


I'm not talking about one pilot. I saw the battle happen, I saw the ships being eradicated left and right. I also remember Shepard's analysis of the battle after the fact.

The lot of you have your head so far up your asses you can taste your own boogers.


EVERY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP HAS BEEN REFUTED.

It's not my fault if you can't accept that you're wrong.

#1138
SandTrout
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:19

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Saphra Deden wrote...

"Sovereign's too strong! We need to pull back!"

Eat it.


#1139
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:22

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The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

EVERY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP HAS BEEN REFUTED.


No, they haven't.

You've all made up theories and tried to throw out any evidence I bring forth.

Christ, now you're saying our victory over Sovereign was a clean one.

You're ignoring both what happened in the battle and even Shepard's analysis of the battle. You're also ignoring Hackett's appraisal of the situation in ME2.

If you're just going to ignore any supporting evidence I bring forth then of-course I can't defend my position. My entire defense hinges on having evidence to support it ,evidence you all continually just toss out.

(and then expect me to accept your wild speculations and assumptions without question)

This thread has turned out exactly the way I thought it would.

40 pages of people feebly trying to tell me I'm wrong without actually presenting any arguments or evidence of such.

#1140
Sisterofshane
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:23

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Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

No, you are a moron for using one soldier's judgement in the heat of a heavy battle as an objective truth regarding the tactical and strategic stiuation. A judgement that was proven false by the reality of what happened during the battle.


I'm not talking about one pilot. I saw the battle happen, I saw the ships being eradicated left and right. I also remember Shepard's analysis of the battle after the fact.

The lot of you have your head so far up your asses you can taste your own boogers.


You only quoted one pilot.  And in the sequence Sovereign destroys maybe four total ships?  Again, how does four equal "Many" in a fleet of around two hundred ships?

And Shep's analysis was more anecdotal then anything.  Shepard never saw the battle in it's entirety.  Besides, isn't the only thing that Shep says at the end is that we need to be "prepared", because the Reapers are still out there?

@SandTrout - I take my hat off to you sir.

#1141
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:25

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Sisterofshane wrote...

You only quoted one pilot.


That's not the only statement I've ever made on the subject.

I told you to forget it though.

If you live in a universe in which you easily destroyed Sovereign and thus the remainder of the fleet can easily destroy 400 more, then clearly victory over the Reapers is assured.

I wish I had your confidence or at least your warped perception of reality.

#1142
Guest_The Big Bad Wolf_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:26

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Saphra Deden wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

EVERY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP HAS BEEN REFUTED.


No, they haven't.

You've all made up theories and tried to throw out any evidence I bring forth.

Christ, now you're saying our victory over Sovereign was a clean one.

You're ignoring both what happened in the battle and even Shepard's analysis of the battle. You're also ignoring Hackett's appraisal of the situation in ME2.

If you're just going to ignore any supporting evidence I bring forth then of-course I can't defend my position. My entire defense hinges on having evidence to support it ,evidence you all continually just toss out.

(and then expect me to accept your wild speculations and assumptions without question)

This thread has turned out exactly the way I thought it would.

40 pages of people feebly trying to tell me I'm wrong without actually presenting any arguments or evidence of such.


I'm not saying it's a clean victory, as there is no such thing as a clean victory.

And what evidence? Evidence that has been refuted with reasonable arguments? Doesn't really count as evidence if it's refuted, does it?

Like I said, not my fault if you can't see that you are wrong, and besides, we all know the answer to how we will stop the Reapers. And even with the knowledge we currently have, we can probably still beat them, it would just be very costly.

#1143
Humanoid_Typhoon
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:27

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Hopefully we make it to 50 before this thread gets locked.It's very hard to debate when the OP keeps changing the story.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 03 août 2011 - 03:28 .

#1144
Shimmer_Gloom
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:29

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Hopefully we make it to 50 before this thread gets locked.It's very hard to debate when the OP keeps changing the story.


I have faith in humanity.  I say we can do at least 51.

#1145
SandTrout
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:30

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[quote]
You've all made up theories and tried to throw out any evidence I bring forth.[/quote] What evidence you have brought forth does not justify your conclusion that we should surrender to the Reapers.

[quote]Christ, now you're saying our victory over Sovereign was a clean one.[/quote]Lie.

[/quote]You're ignoring both what happened in the battle and even Shepard's analysis of the battle. You're also ignoring Hackett's appraisal of the situation in ME2.[/quote] An appraisal is an estimates. Hackett presented it as that, and estimates are by definition not objective truth. You are free to share that estimate, and I actually agree that our standing forces are probably not prepared as well as they could be, but that does not inherently mean that there is a 0 chance of success. Anyone with military training knows that you fight as long as there is a non-0 chance of success b/c a lot of times the chances are better than you estimated. If chances are worse than you estimated, then you're still not in a worse position than you would have been.

[quote]40 pages of people feebly trying to tell me I'm wrong without actually presenting any arguments or evidence of such.[/quote] My perception is that it was 46 pages of you ignoring our facts and counter-arguments.

Modifié par SandTrout, 03 août 2011 - 03:30 .

#1146
Sisterofshane
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:30

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Saphra Deden wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

EVERY ARGUMENT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP HAS BEEN REFUTED.


No, they haven't.

You've all made up theories and tried to throw out any evidence I bring forth.

Christ, now you're saying our victory over Sovereign was a clean one.

You're ignoring both what happened in the battle and even Shepard's analysis of the battle. You're also ignoring Hackett's appraisal of the situation in ME2.

If you're just going to ignore any supporting evidence I bring forth then of-course I can't defend my position. My entire defense hinges on having evidence to support it ,evidence you all continually just toss out.

(and then expect me to accept your wild speculations and assumptions without question)

This thread has turned out exactly the way I thought it would.

40 pages of people feebly trying to tell me I'm wrong without actually presenting any arguments or evidence of such.


When did anyone ever say that it was "clean"?  Quote it.  We are just trying to say that it wasn't impossible, and that we are not so outmatched by the Reapers as you suppose.

And name one instance where any part of your thesis was ignored, or not touched upon at all.  This thread (in it's entirety) has offered up a counter point (with it's own evidence) to EVERY SINGLE POINT YOU HAVE MANAGED TO COME UP WITH.   and I have proof in your last statment that you ARE ignoring our evidence.

"40 pages of people feebly trying to tell me I'm wrong without actually presenting any arguments or evidence of such."

Again, do you truly believe that there is no evidence within this entire thread that counters your POV at all?
^definition of "ignore"

#1147
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:30

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The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

And what evidence?


Eingana, the contamination on Ilium, the Battle of the Citadel, the codex entries on interstellar combat.

That's my evidence. None of it has been refuted.

Nobody aside from Arijharn has even attempted to tackle the issue of actually defeating the Reapers themselves. The rest of you are hung up on cleaning up eezo spills.

You haven't laid forth any strategies or technologies that will make the war winnable.

You've tried to portray the battle against Sovereign as a highly successful one when it was not. It was a close battle with Sovereign ripping into the fleet. This all happening while Sovereign was completely immobile. Thank god it wasn't actually flying around tring to avoid being hit with your feeble guns.

#1148
Praetor Knight
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:31

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Oh boy...
:unsure:


Well, with the Battle of the Citadel, Sovereign did destroy at least four Alliance vessels with it's Thanix blast, after the Ward arms opened, as Sovereign was getting pelted with Alliance bug-bites, I'd need to go through that sequence to be certain.

But with the time from that fight, to when ME3 begins, I'm sure a good number of ships would have better weaponry, if not shields or armor. So it could still be fights of attrition, even if the Alliance does not upgrade ordinance, but it wouldn't be completely hopeless either.



http://masseffect.wi..._of_the_Citadel
http://masseffect.wi..._of_the_Citadel

Saphra Deden wrote...

This thread has turned out exactly the way I thought it would.

40 pages of people feebly trying to tell me I'm wrong without actually presenting any arguments or evidence of such.

Come on now! Comments like these are too much?! :lol:

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 03 août 2011 - 03:33 .

#1149
Humanoid_Typhoon
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:32

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I've been calling sandtrout fishscout for 2 days...just realized that.

#1150
Sisterofshane
Posté 03 août 2011 - 03:32

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Hopefully we make it to 50 before this thread gets locked.It's very hard to debate when the OP keeps changing the story.


It's very hard to debate when the OP claims that there *is* nothing to debate.
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