2463 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Sounds like someone's been indoctrinated...

We can destroy a Reaper without blowing them up.... //looks at Derelect Reaper

You mean the last hurrah of a civilization before being destroyed? They got lucky.

That gun must have been a massive project. It must have been an incredible undertaking, with all the resourced they could muster (while being reaped) to even create the gun, and they only got one shot.

They "killed" a single reaper, then got wiped out. Likely the remaining people were used to make another reaper to replace the one that "died."

The reaper was caught off guard by a fast moving object in another part of the galaxy! Unless you propose making a fleet of those giant guns, its unlikely we can win using a similar tactic.

[JetsoverEverything]

lets smoke weed and die happy.

[SandTrout]

Yeah, and the other 90% get birth defects, cancer, and death. I know you know what happens if 90% of humanity dies off, Ieldra. It is the same situation discussed before. Earth is lost, humanity is reduced to a tiny shadow of its former self.

But there will likely not be 100% contamination, especially not immediately. The environment will increase the likelihood of contamination, resulting in a lower survival rate initially, until the effects of natural selection kick in, greatly increasing the rate of biotics in the species with each successive generation.

Also, 90% miscarriage rate does not mean that overall live births will necessarily drop to 10% of their previous rate. Many people will simply keep trying until they get their family of however many children. This isn't to say that the birth rate will remain at 100% of pre-war rates, but it would not likely be as low as 10% of pre-war rates.

The likely destruction of the food crops will be a major issue, but more than anything else, it will spur massive emigration to the colonies, providing cheap labor to allow for rapid development of those colonies, while still being able to utilize the most important role of Earth as the industrial base of the Alliance. That industrial base will simply be importing much larger amounts of food than before.

This war will be a very harsh form of natural selection, but the end result is difficult to predict, and humanity may actually come out stronger for it by accelerating the development of biotics within our species, as well as the rate of expansion due to the refugees from Earth's predicted famine.

Edit:

You realize the biosphere itself is valuable, right? You realize most people exposed to that eezo will die from it? There are 11 billion people there. Ieldra can do the math for you, but in short you don't have enough ships or enough time to evacuate 11 billion people.

That depends on how long you have to evacuate them, and the number will probably be significantly less than 11 billion by the end of the war, both due to the dirrect effects of the war and mortality rates due to eezo exposure.

Modifié par SandTrout, 27 juillet 2011 - 07:58 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Nashiktal wrote...
You mean the last hurrah of a civilization before being destroyed? They got lucky.

That gun must have been a massive project. It must have been an incredible undertaking, with all the resourced they could muster (while being reaped) to even create the gun, and they only got one shot.

They "killed" a single reaper, then got wiped out. Likely the remaining people were used to make another reaper to replace the one that "died."

The reaper was caught off guard by a fast moving object in another part of the galaxy! Unless you propose making a fleet of those giant guns, its unlikely we can win using a similar tactic.

Actually we have no idea how many Reapers they killed... we just know that one was left behind (apparently caught in an area too dangerous to send a Reaper in to salvage... or just another area overlooked). 

Also, as far as we know... this is the first time there's been any species that stood even a small chance of beating the Reapers.

It was pretty evident from Game 1 that brute force was not going to be the exclusive answer to removing the Reaper threat.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 27 juillet 2011 - 07:58 .

[Shifty Assassin]

We probably will win thanks to some story twist that makes the reapers vulnerable or something

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Depending on our actions in Game 3... yeah, we will be able to win.. that's already been basically confirmed.

[Nashiktal]

Shifty Assassin wrote...

We probably will win thanks to some story twist that makes the reapers vulnerable or something

This topic is avoiding metagaming as an answer to how we will beat the reapers. Of course we WILL win because its a videogame, but in universe, given everything we know, and with the current strength of the fleets against reapers... it looks grim.

[Sgt Stryker]

Nashiktal wrote...

Shifty Assassin wrote...

We probably will win thanks to some story twist that makes the reapers vulnerable or something

This topic is avoiding metagaming as an answer to how we will beat the reapers. Of course we WILL win because its a videogame, but in universe, given everything we know so far, and with the current strength of the fleets against reapers... it looks grim.

Fixed.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

That's partially why the Collector Base is considered a useful potential resource to those who save it.

The Paragon (base destroyer) statement to Harbinger in Arrival shares a similar sentiment as the OP (that they may not win).

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:05 .

[Arppis]

nhsk wrote...

Cool story bro

"Today we celebrate our independence day" (im not from america)

That always translated to me like: "American's independence day is world independence day!". Just made the movie more douchy...

[SJK93]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

That's partially why the Collector Base is considered a useful potential resource to those who save it.

The Paragon (base destroyer) statement to Harbinger in Arrival shares a similar sentiment as the OP (that they may not win).

That proves nothing. And I think the base is better off destroyed than in the hands of Cerberus, which is now indoctrinated apparently.

[LilyasAvalon]

KingNothing125 wrote...

OP is clearly indoctrinated.

[Thalador]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
You mean the last hurrah of a civilization before being destroyed? They got lucky.

That gun must have been a massive project. It must have been an incredible undertaking, with all the resourced they could muster (while being reaped) to even create the gun, and they only got one shot.

They "killed" a single reaper, then got wiped out. Likely the remaining people were used to make another reaper to replace the one that "died."

The reaper was caught off guard by a fast moving object in another part of the galaxy! Unless you propose making a fleet of those giant guns, its unlikely we can win using a similar tactic.

Actually we have no idea how many Reapers they killed... we just know that one was left behind (apparently caught in an area too dangerous to send a Reaper in to salvage... or just another area overlooked). 

I think the other Reapers applied Harbinger's  "leave the dead where they fall" mentality to their fallen kin. If it was weak and unworthy enough to get shot and disabled by some "dust struggling againt cosmic winds," then it deserves to die - or live as a cripple trapped in the gravity of brown dwarf for all eternity.

And yeah, OP spent too much time watching the fail cinematic of Arrival (Object Rho's visions) on YouTube, and got indoctrinated in the process.

Modifié par Thalador, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:27 .

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

How much then and how long? Depending on how close those ships are to Earth it won't take long to all. I guarantee you though the entire planet will be contaminated long before you can evacuate everybody.

Natural selection doesn't happen over night, don't you know?

Trust me, I am aware of how natural selection works. My point is more that it is reasonable to assume that significant portions of the population may be able to be evacuated, especially if you triage those that are allready suffering the effects of significant eezo exposure. Also, large portions of the population will be left to adapt on their own. Those that remain on earth will most likely adapt into a 100% biotic population within our species sooner than those in the colonies, allthough with a lower overall population.

Also, it may be possible to geneticly engineer offspring to  have biotic potential (IE: Miranda), as opposed to true natural selection that simply would kill off those who are not. We allready know that certain genetic treatments are standard practice, as well as the wealthy creating designer babies. It is not outside reason that the eezo contamination on Earth would be at high enough levels to justify making biotic potential a standard genetic 'vacination', even though law currently prohibits genetic modifications that grant new abilities to humans.

My main point is that as long as we do not truely loose the entirety, or an overwhelming percentage, of Earth's population, our species will still be able to maintain a passable galatic pressence if the Reapers can be defeated. Eezo contamination of the biosphere is not as apocalytpic as you are proposeing, especially if countermesasures are taken.

[Bogsnot1]

Saphra Deden wrote...
No, you really can't.
 

Honestly, I can. You are painting a Doomsday scenario. Is it bad, Yes. I agree with that. Is it as bad as you claim it will be? No, I dont think so. Life endures. It always does.

You're trying my patience.

Then make a rational argument citing sources on exact death rates, and why humanity is doomed. Either we destroy hundreds of Reapers in Earths atmosphere and "doom" our planet, or they keep watch on the Charon Relay and bugger off before any fleet capable of doing such a feat arrives to dish out a merry old spanking.
One, or the other. Or are you proposing the Reaper will wage a guerilla war on Earth, using their entire fleet.

Either way, humanity is not doomed as we have already gotten off this rock and settled other worlds.

If it had broken apart upon re-entry nobody would have survived the crash. Just looking at the ship with the naked-eye reveals it is mostly intact. The reason it is so open and exposed is because the survivors stripped it for anything useful.

As I stated, if it truly had entered the atmosphere at the speeds which were cited by the beacon (465% suborbital velocity), its kinetic barriers would have been useless in preventing it from being turned into a pile of wreckage upon impact. I cite the Suicide Mission where EDI reminds Joker that the Normandy's kinetic barriers are not designed to withstand impacts with large debris. A military vessel would have better barriers than a civilian freighter, and a planet is even larger than space debris. The only reason why it is still intact is through deus ex machina. The devs wanted a nice pretty wreck to be there for us to explore. The crew could have safely made it to the planet via escape pods, like what was used in the beginning of ME2.

[b1n0ry]

My guess is that TIM has figured out the secret to defeating the Reapers. He probably knows how to create the One Reaper that could obliterate or scare off all other Reapers. The key to creating this Reaper is the right genetic code and Shepard is the only one whose got it. So it's either converting Shep into fuel to save galaxy or finding an alternative.

[Pride Demon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

And - as someone else has pointed out - destroying the Charon relay would destroy Earth, but would also destroy all Reapers in the solar system. There are no FTL sensors,

Ieldra, I explained this in my post. Or I think I did.

Directing an object large enough to destroy the relay would be time consuming. The Reapers would pick up on this and either stop you or flee.

Even if they didn't, as long as they had at least one Reaper in range to warn them when it was too late to stop you they could escape. Remember, Reapers have quantum entanglemenet devices which allow them to communicate over light-years instantaneously.

I advocate making the Reapers think we are going to blow up the system (even if actually we are not) so they flee the planet... Maybe faking the famous Pluto strategy and deliberatey slip up so they notice...
Once they are off world, we can crush them without fear...

Of course this plan implies we have found a way to destoy them...

[GodWood]

I know we're doomed.
But I'd prefer we go out with a bang.

Modifié par GodWood, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:33 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

SJK93 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

That's partially why the Collector Base is considered a useful potential resource to those who save it.

The Paragon (base destroyer) statement to Harbinger in Arrival shares a similar sentiment as the OP (that they may not win).

That proves nothing. And I think the base is better off destroyed than in the hands of Cerberus, which is now indoctrinated apparently.

Not proven, only suggested.  The arguement here is that there's no known way to beat the Reapers... which is the underlying reason for keeping the Base in the first place.

At this point it's still unclear what exactly Cerberus is doing (along with what benefits keeping the base has led to during the span of time between ME2 and 3).

[SJK93]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

SJK93 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

That's partially why the Collector Base is considered a useful potential resource to those who save it.

The Paragon (base destroyer) statement to Harbinger in Arrival shares a similar sentiment as the OP (that they may not win).

That proves nothing. And I think the base is better off destroyed than in the hands of Cerberus, which is now indoctrinated apparently.

Not proven, only suggested.  The arguement here is that there's no known way to beat the Reapers... which is the underlying reason for keeping the Base in the first place.

At this point it's still unclear what exactly Cerberus is doing (along with what benefits keeping the base has led to during the span of time between ME2 and 3).

Touche. Nothing is certain until we see how this all turns out. But I'm not at all convinced that we're doomed regardless.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

More cowbell!

[SJK93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Well that's exactly what is going to happen so the matter is settled.

So, basically what you're saying is, "this is what's going to happen because I say so"? Because that's how it's coming across.