2463 réponses à ce sujet

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Wow,this is one of the worst debates ever....everyone but saphra has an established posistion,stop changing points of view.

We can win or we can't win it's that simple you can't say we should surrender,but we should fight,we can't win,but there is a chance of victory.

Saphra are you aware of fallacy,you base your entire argument on it.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...


You just said that the Reapers could be beaten if they wait too long.

Yes, they could, BUT THEY WON'T DO THAT.

Why?  Why are they attacking now?   You said yourself.  They have a greater advantage to winning if they attack now.  BUT if the Reapers were invincible THEY WOULDN'T NEED AN ADVANTAGE.

You say we CAN'T beat the Reapers.  Sound like you are just buying into Harbinger's PR.

[Twizz089]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Oh I see, so if we dont know how the rest of the reapers compare to Sovereign how is the battle with Sovereign a good measure of what will happen when we fight them?

Yes, it is.

So a battle against an enemy tank will show us our k/d ratio against that enemy even if we dont know if they have anymore tanks?

Modifié par Twizz089, 03 août 2011 - 09:30 .

[Pzykozis]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

Why?  Why are they attacking now?   You said yourself.  They have a greater advantage to winning if they attack now.  BUT if the Reapers were invincible THEY WOULDN'T NEED AN ADVANTAGE.

You say we CAN'T beat the Reapers.  Sound like you are just buying into Harbinger's PR.

Because they like to do things in cycles? Y'know the whole 50k years thing. Sovereign was a set-back doesn't mean they cancel the whole party, there's no baby chucking going on here.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Oh yes

"We have just fought one SturmTiger and his panzers with our Shermans and bazookas so we must assume that every other tank we fight will be as tough as the Sturmtiger,even though it's likely the rest of the tanks will be regular Tigers or more Panzers"

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Arcian wrote...

Why are you guys still stroking Saphra's bloated ego? Not that I don't enjoy a good discussion now and then, but this topic is completely redundant. The idea that the reapers are impossible to defeat is completely inane. BioWare has said they can be defeated, just not how.

That makes too much sense to some people <_<

[LGTX]

BioWare don't exist in the Mass Effect universe...

[Thalador]

Arcian wrote...

Why are you guys still stroking Saphra's bloated ego? Not that I don't enjoy a good discussion now and then, but this topic is completely redundant. The idea that the reapers are impossible to defeat is completely inane. BioWare has said they can be defeated, just not how.

That's not the problem, Arcian. This guy wants his scenario to be one of the only possible endings in ME3, because that would make the most sense, in his humble, indoctrinated opinion.

[Sisterofshane]

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]Sisterofshane wrote...

You missed  my whole point, and actually helped me prove it a bit.  The Reapers can no longer afford to wait.[/quote]

They're rushing so they can maintain their advantage.

Your point is counterintuitive. [/quote]

Their supposed advantage.  Big difference.
They thought they had a DEFINITE advantage at the point that Sovereign tried to activate the citadel's mass relay and failed.
They thought they had a DEFINITE advantage when Sovereign used Saren to give him direct control to open the relay himself, and failed.
They thought they had a DEFINITE advantage by reaching the alpha relay to connect to all other relays, and the failed.
Key word, *thought*


[quote]saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]Sisterofshane wrote...

Prove to me that the Reapers can repair themselves.[/quote]

No.[/quote]

Because you can't.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]Sisterofshane wrote...

Way to ignore all of my evidence because it contradicts your rebuttal.[/quote]

You didn't present any evidence.[/quote]

The audience you are trying to convince most likely believes otherwise, even if you choose to feign ignorance.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]Sisterofshane wrote...

It's so highly unlikely that the Reapers will get to all sustainable, known, COLONIZED planets all at once with sufficient force as to completely cripple them immediately, that it borders on the the IMPOSSIBLE.[/quote]

They don't need to do it all at once. A few decades of hit and run attacks is sufficient.[/quote]

Only if they inflict permanent damage upon the world, which is impossible because it would be counterintuitive to their point of maintaining a stage for organic life to evolve from again in the next fifty-thousand years.
And only if in the process they sustain no damage to themselves.  Very unlikely.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]Sisterofshane wrote...

Soviet Russia had no infastructure to support it's people, and yet it still managed to create and sustain a formidable military presence.[/quote]

Oh really?[/quote]

Yes really.  Dispute it if you don't believe it.

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...
[quote]Sisterofshane wrote...

And only one Reaper would be able to cripple a planet, ONLY IF there were no other forces opposing it. This will not be the case, and no Reaper would ever think that it would be a possibilty.

[/quote]

Even if you have every ship in the galaxy guarding a planet the Reapers can still render it uninhabitable.

[/quote]

Supposition, and one that is currently counterintuitive to one of the Reapers larger goals -- for organic life to rebuild itself in fifty-thousand years.
If a planet is uninhabitable, there will be no life to spring up from it.

[Twizz089]

Arcian wrote...

Why are you guys still stroking Saphra's bloated ego? Not that I don't enjoy a good discussion now and then, but this topic is completely redundant. The idea that the reapers are impossible to defeat is completely inane. BioWare has said they can be defeated, just not how.

Because its fun to pick apart her statements then watch as she  flails around afterwards.  I know she is wrong and everyone else on this thread is right.. but I like to watch her dance

Modifié par Twizz089, 03 août 2011 - 09:54 .

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

Why?  Why are they attacking now?

I just offered you an explanation. Go back and read it.

I'm not replying to you again unless you do.

I want you to quote it in your next post.

Those were hypothetical questions.  Her point was that reapers were not invincible.
So don't make her repeat herself because you misunderstood the point of her post.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Their supposed advantage.  Big difference.

Not supposed, it's there. We've seen it in action several times.

I can't prove that the Reapers can repair themselves and you can't prove that they can't.

To be safe though I think we should assume that they can.

I actually have evidence that they can't:  The derelict reaper.  Which is more evidence then you have.
So based upon evidence, I'm going to assume that they can't.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

The audience you are trying to convince most likely believes otherwise, even if you choose to feign ignorance.

I don't care.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

Only you're not leading the "horse" to water.  You're leading it to poison.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Only if they inflict permanent damage upon the world, which is impossible because it would be counterintuitive to their point of maintaining a stage for organic life to evolve from again...

Given time planets will heal and new ones will arise.

Only if the Reapers hold back enough not to damage it beyond repair.
If that is what it takes to stop our supply lines, then they wouldn't do it.  They want life to return.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Yes really.  Dispute it if you don't believe it.

What happened to the Soviet Union, Sisterofshane?

Read: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Supposition, and one that is currently counterintuitive to one of the Reapers larger goals -- for organic life to rebuild itself in fifty-thousand years.

It's not counterintuitive at all. The galaxy is huge and the number of currently habitable and future habitable worlds numbers in the tens of of millions.

Yes it is.  You said the planet would remain "uninhabitable".  But that's clearly NOT how the Reapers would want to leave it.
If they did, hoping that other planets would be able to sustain advanced organic civilization, they might eventually come to a point where no planets were left.
Far easier and more logical to leave a planet you know would be capable then hope that other planets would take up the slack, especially since they were so successful at creating life over the LAST fifty thousand years.

[Sisterofshane]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Those were hypothetical questions.  Her point was that reapers were not invincible.
So don't make her repeat herself because you misunderstood the point of her post.

I read her post. I understood it.

She doesn't understand what this discussion is about.

The Reapers are not inherently invincible. They are not gods.

What makes them unbeatable are the circumstances under which we must fight them.

You clearly didn't understand it, because you never responded to her argument.  In fact, you acted as if her entire argument never existed.

And thank you for actually responding to her request instead of ignoring it again.  Now she doesn't have to repeat herself ad naseum.

And unbeatable is a pretty good synonym for invincible. (thesaurus.com/browse/unbeatable)
And you pretty much treat them like gods.  You pretty much believe they are better than we are, anyways.  Which, by the way, is just your opinion.

EDIT: Grammar

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 03 août 2011 - 10:05 .

[Twizz089]

Saphra Deden wrote...

We don't know enough about the derelict Reaper or the circumstances surrounding its demise to come to such a definitive conclusion.

 

lets apply that same logic to your thoughts.  Here i will do it for you. 

We dont know enough about the Reapers or the circumstances surrounding the coming war to come to such a definitive conclusion

[Requiem of Faith]

 We can all take into account that the Reapers can be stopped...
ME: The Citadel, a giant mass relay used for the Reapers to both travel anywhere in the known galaxy and for aquiring information on all known species, was rendered inoperable to the Reapers thanks to Sheperd. Also, Sovereign, the Reapers scout and monitor, had been destroyed. So not only is their main hub for transportation destroyed, but their pre-emtive strike coordinator (hence being their scout/monitor) is destroyed. So the Reapers will be uncoordinated in their attacks and unknowledgable on what planets their enemies have colonized. In order to coordinate properly, they must retake the Citadel.

ME2: The Collectors, Protheans abducting human colonies to make a human Reaper, were destroyed. Their leader, Harbinger, is now thrown into disarray and forced to rely on old relics to indoctrinate and gain further insight on their enemies. On "Arrival", Sheperd destroyed the Alpha Relay preventing the Reapers last means of traversing the galaxy at a rate quicker than FTL speeds and spreading throughout the galaxy aswell. Further urging the need for the Reapers to retake the Citadel.

Conclusion: As witnessed on "Arrival", the destruction of a Mass Relay caused a supernova that wipedout the known cluster. Therefore pushing the Reapers closer to relying on the Citadel, and gather there for a major blow on the galaxy. Since the Citadel itself is a giant Mass Relay, it's destruction would trigger a supernova of cosmic proportions (if activated). The key to winning this war lies within the Citadel, and with the keepers.