2463 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

Uh, sure. Just like people naturally develop an immunity to radiation if you leave them in a nuclear reactor.

Except that is essentially how the Turians evolved. Also, we have proof that some humans do not suffer as badly from eezo exposure than others, with an implied genetic component (biotics). The desired trait already exists in about 10% of the population. Evolution will simply result in a larger percentage with that trait.

Well that's exactly what is going to happen so the matter is settled.

And this where we disagree.

Chances are that once the dust settles, that if you land a shuttle in any major population center (with enough security to run in case they riot), and people will be lining up on their own to get off planet. Set up a quick infirmary to evaluate the refugees before the board, and send out a couple of fighters to inform people where to go, and you can probably evacuate at least a million people a month if you really try. It will likely take years for the eezo contamination to reach its peak.

[didymos1120]

SandTrout wrote...

Uh, sure. Just like people naturally develop an immunity to radiation if you leave them in a nuclear reactor.

Except that is essentially how the Turians evolved.

Um, no.  There's just a slight difference between "additional solar radiation due to a weak magnetic field" and "interior of a nuclear reactor".

[Arijharn]

I guess the answer then is twofold

1 ) Don't force combat over Earth. Remember, we have other bases and assets in the sol system.

Look at Saturn for example, it's the Alliance's largest He3 supplier. Providing it can be brought back online and we can amass there, then honestly the Reapers would be plain stupid to allow us too.

From there we can make darting strikes designed primarily to ****** them off. We nip in, blast away at the smaller Reapers, they get pissed and amass for what they expect to be our large assault, we then withdraw, leaving just enough bread crumbs. We continue this choosing different Reapers at a time in order to provoke them, but always to the point that we've got an exit handy. Sooner or later they will raise themselves from Earth because they are depleting their energies trying to maneouvre all the time in the gravity well of a planet and we've got complete freedom otherwise, and it's pretty obvious that teh Reapers want us in some capacity.

2) Don't cause strikes designed to blow the Reaper completely up and scatter dust form element zero all over the place. Cause body and weapon hits to maximize superficial damage and negate their ability to wage war (for example, strike at weapon systems themselves, direct weapon strikes at hull sections but presumably not at the core locations). We must have some degree of where these critical points are due to captured relics we've had access too (Sovereign, Derelict Reaper, CB, funky Joker datapad). If a Reaper crashes largely whole onto the Earth, then that is still preferable than it exploding in high orbit and raining it's debris over a wide field.

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Except that is essentially how the Turians evolved.

All life on Palaven evolved that way as that radiation was present from the begining. That is not the case for Earth.

The point at which a survival stressor is introduced is irrelevant unless it results in extinction of the species. Otherwise, the species will evolve some mechanism, over the course of generations, to better deal with the stressor in question.

You're basically saying if I leave a bunch fo white people in the tropics for a couple of decades that they'll turn black. They won't.

No. I'm saying leave them there for a few centuries. I know that this isn't going to be a quick process, but it's not extinction either, especially if you consider genetic engineering as reasonable. Do not mistake me for one of those ignorant posters who regularly asspulls.

Modifié par SandTrout, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:16 .

[Arijharn]

Saphra Deden wrote...
That would need precise weaponry and would not be conductive to hit and run tactics.

Shephard managed to call down fire on a small Reaper while they were driving around in the demo and from a pretty short distance all things considered (especially from an orbiting fleet). If we can make pretty accurate fire now including laser guided missiles, we can certainly fire precisely with mass effect weaponry. Remember, they fire so fast that atmospheric conditions don't cause that much bullet dip etc, etc. It's literally centre crosshairs and pull the trigger. It is conductive to hit and run tactics, because you'd have squads of available ships firing in order in a ripple sort of effect. When one is shooting, another is moving etc. Also bare in mind you don't have to maintain firepower, because you're not actually trying to destroy them, just gain their attention.

It's largely mathematics, I'm presuming that mathematics and camera's/telescopes are of better quality than they are now.

Saphra Deden wrote...
Saturn won't do you much good if the Reapers smash the refueling infrastructure ahead of time.

True, but Saturn isn't the only resource we have, I was merely using that as an example.

Modifié par Arijharn, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:23 .

[Reptillius]

Saphra Deden wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Except that is essentially how the Turians evolved.

All life on Palaven evolved that way as that radiation was present from the begining. That is not the case for Earth.

You're basically saying if I leave a bunch fo white people in the tropics for a couple of decades that they'll turn black. They won't.

no. But they'll tan quite well... which is a small first step in the process...

[Bogsnot1]

OP made the exact same thread in the ME2 forums, and 42 page and 4 months later, still refuses to accept any rational argument that was put forward by anybody, and just stuck to the "I'm right, you're all wrong" schtick.
http://social.biowar...5/index/6892620

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

i not thinks all Reeper come in the Galaxy for destroy the all wolrd's or the Earth,
probably some Reeper stay in the dark space, and for me in another Galaxy or universe have more Reepers, Shepard she save all worlds all Galaxy and all spices cost for the same Shepard life, its impossible kill all Reeper, and its impossible in the third chepter, its a my opinion, its the most big war in the human history and in the history of the Galaxy

[Arijharn]

Saphra Deden wrote...
The fleet was in orbit, meaning it had plenty of time to be ready to hit any target Shepard painted.

You're not seriously going to say that motion in space is going to adversely impact a gunners aim are you? Space battles are fought with motion, it's not just artillery strikes from colossal ranges.

And if we aren't in range then... we move closer to be in range? Motion (and compensating for it) can not be an insurmountable task for ship based weapon systems, especially considering by their design they'd have to be able to hit not just other ships, but stationary targets as well. That to me at least is common sense, because to me otherwise they wouldn't be worth the taxpayer funding.

Saphra Deden wrote...
Give me another example then.

Invent one yourself! Seriously though, any reason that we amass is probably a something that the Reapers should pay attention. Perhaps near the Asteriod field, perhaps over luna. I can't imagine all the stockpiles for the Alliance is located on just Earth or just Saturn, because no modern day military only has single or two locations for ammo dumps etc. Now, obviously I can't prove any of this, but this whole post is about arguing hypotheticals imo.

I know there is a hostile environment training location for alliance marines somewhere in the sol system as well, but atm I can't remember what that location is.

It would of course be better if Saturn could be salvageable though; if I was an Admiral I would make damn sure that efforts would be to prioritize it at least, even if it was just temp fabs etc.

Even if it's just a generic location, we go in, give a Reaper a headache and then leave without over committing is one where the Reapers are going to loose as long as they stay in orbit, because they still use energy for tight burns etc, etc. Obviously, if a Reaper over-extends, we should be able to bring enough firepower to severely punish its mistake.

Saphra wrote...
Remember also that the Reapers can do hit and run as well as you can. As long as enough Reapers remain in orbit they can fend off any strike fleets you send and cause you too much trouble for you to be able to take shots at the ones on the surface. You can't catch them unawares.

Right, but that's where picking your targets comes into play. If there's an amount in orbit then you start pickign those off. Direct overwhelming firepower to cripple then simply withdraw. If the enemy starts to amass, disengage and strike somewhere else if able too. Set up minefields or 'killzones' over your held area's because you want the Reapers to actually leave Earth orbit.

Saphra wrote...
Also, merely hitting a Reaper from orbit and actually striking one in specific places to disable it without destroying it are two very different things.

Not really, computer assisted targetting. LADAR scanning, high resolution telescopic sights,  all of these are concepts explored already within the ME universe and in real life at the present day (I admit, I am sort of blending the two because I assume, however wrongly it may be, that technology that exists now should probably exist then too; and probably at much greater standard considering staples such as Moore's Law etc) Remember, Telescopic sights for things like visual scanning are more useful than not due to the fact that they're remaining over Earth and thus are prisoners to high levels of light source, aka the sun and albedo light reflected from Earth onto its captors

Saphra wrote...
What makes you think you'll even know where to hit the Reaper to achieve that?

I've already touched upon it: Sovereign's wreckage, Reaper design schematics salvaged from the (saved or destroyed) Collector Base, the Derelict Reaper, potentially Joker's datapad from the end of ME2, downed Reaper vessels throughout the course of Mass Effect 3, perhaps even basic structural engineering (I mean, even Reapers have to obey the laws of physics). All of that is useful data that should be categorized and disseminated to ship captains and gunnery chiefs.

So, hopefully with all that to mull over, you must realise that while it's certainly going to be a difficult prospect to evict Reapers from Earth, it's not all doom and gloom, and it isn't more to the point impossible. So stop being a negative nancy

[Praetor Knight]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

OP made the exact same thread in the ME2 forums, and 42 page and 4 months later, still refuses to accept any rational argument that was put forward by anybody, and just stuck to the "I'm right, you're all wrong" schtick.
http://social.biowar...5/index/6892620

Nobody has put forward a rational argument.

It's amazing we went over 40 pages with nobody actually managing to hold an argument with me.

Can't say I'm surprised though. I didn't come to this conclusion on a whim.

With your scenario, it seems impossible to save the Earth.

So maybe a Pyrrhic Victory is in order to defeat the Reapers overall.

Elaborating on the Charon Relay idea, we must consider evacuating as many people as possible from Earth and head to Arcturus Station and then scatter survivors and civilians on Arcturus among habitable planets.

At the same time, using enough Alliance Carriers (stripped as bare as possible and running with skeleton crews) to propel a massive object, like Pluto or another nearby Kuiper Belt object, into the Charon Relay to detonate.

That should destroy enough Reapers to do significant damage to the Reaper fleet at the price of another Solar System to improve the odds of future engagements, since we know they are harvesting Earth.

Then the surviving frigates and cruisers can be used to strike at any reaper stragglers, using guerrilla hit and run tactics from Wolf Pack flotillas.

Carriers and Dreadnaughts could remain with Arcturus Station and I hope that the station is mobile so it could leave the system it's in. And with that area being a nexus for Relays, we have another choke point to detonate yet another relay.

This desperate plan relies on knowing,
How many Reapers are there exactly?
Is the Sol system the only place being hit or are multiple systems being targeted?
And could Alliance ships get fitted with at least Thanix Cannons for any follow up engagements?
Thoughts?

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:18 .

[Fixers0]

I told you.

Saving earth or planet for that matter really is just going to be a waste of time and effort, and realisticly, there is going not much to save anyway, Cities are decimated and it's infrastructure is crumbeld, really from the moment the Reapers were attacking it, earth was allready doomed.

But you see quite confident that the any attempt of combating the Reapers is going to to fail, because they can escape during any shipbattle, But that's only if you assume that the only way to the defeat the Reapers is by a space battle, Which hasn't been proven yet, Now i Don't want to directy jump to conclusions here, but we could also very well sabotage the Reapes from within or broadcast a powerfull EMP signal that shut's down their electronics, again these are just my ideas for alternatives to a space battle.

Also you seemingly work under the impression that the Alien races will be much less affected by the Reaper invasion, because you make the point that Humanity would be grievously outnumberd and outgunned by the Alien races after the war is over, even though they may just as well have lost their fleets and plannets to the Reapers as well, So their military power might be even smaller that of the human races considering that unlike post species, the Humanity's military HQ is located on Arcturus station.

And Personally i will never even think sacrifice my own will and indepance for the so called legacy of our species, I'm going to fight the reapers till the end even if end up shooting a reaper from the ground with my assault rifle, any human who dares to suggest that we need to summit to the reapers, because they are afraid of them, will be personally executed by me!

Modifié par Fixers0, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:27 .

[Arijharn]

I have to admit Saphra, if we were characters in the game and you had that sort of thought process, I'd probably just have you summarily executed...

[Fixers0]

Arijharn wrote...

I have to admit Saphra, if we were characters in the game and you had that sort of thought process, I'd probably just have you summarily executed...

So. you are openly addmitting here that you are willing to commit a murder (me) because they have a different opinion on things?  

[Arijharn]

Fixers0 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I have to admit Saphra, if we were characters in the game and you had that sort of thought process, I'd probably just have you summarily executed...

So. you are openly addmitting here that you are willing to commit a murder (me) because they have a different opinion on things?  

Perhaps you should pay a little bit more attention at your English classes, specifically reading comprehension...

But you know what because you've actually succeeded in pissing me off I'm going to break it down for you so you actually feel as stupid as you sound to the rest of us, and that's because you put me into a vindictive sort of streak.

1) Is your name on this board 'Saphra'
2) Are you a character in the game?
3) Can you not understand the concept of a ''

Therefore, in which combination of the above mentioned items makes you think I'm actually referring to you? Contrary to whatever you may wish to believe, you are not the centre of the universe, and not all conversation revolves around you.

Modifié par Arijharn, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:47 .

[Fixers0]

Arijharn wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I have to admit Saphra, if we were characters in the game and you had that sort of thought process, I'd probably just have you summarily executed...

So. you are openly addmitting here that you are willing to commit a murder (me) because they have a different opinion on things?  

Perhaps you should pay a little bit more attention at your English classes, specifically reading comprehension...

I post in this thread because i wan't to shine my light on these subjects, as is everyone else, thats the point right, to discuss our opinions, but when you come here and totally off-topic post an irrelevant note about how you like to see my executed in-game because of my or other people's ideas.

Modifié par Fixers0, 27 juillet 2011 - 10:56 .

[SJK93]

Fixers0 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I have to admit Saphra, if we were characters in the game and you had that sort of thought process, I'd probably just have you summarily executed...

So. you are openly addmitting here that you are willing to commit a murder (me) because they have a different opinion on things?  

Perhaps you should pay a little bit more attention at your English classes, specifically reading comprehension...

I post in this thread because i wan't to shine my light on these subjects, thats the point right, to discuss our opinions, but when you come here and totally off-topic post an irrelevant note about how you like to see my executed in-game because of my ideas.

He wasn't talking about you or your ideas. Try rereading the posts. It'll become clear.

[Master Wolf]

Arijharn wrote...
From there we can make darting strikes designed primarily to ****** them off.

So your strategy is to use anger (an emotion) against machines that by defenition are not capable of feeling emotions?

Either way if they followed a realistic path Earth would indeed be doomed the Reapers would lay wast to most of the Earth by the time Shepard arrive with reinforcements, and the rest would be destroyed in the following battle, specially if they fire on the reapers while they are in the planet. And to make things worst most of Earth population would be totally indoctrinated by the time of the Reapers defeat.

[Arijharn]

Fixers, I know you read the rest of my post due to the time differences between our posting, which makes you purposely trying to take things out of context, which makes you a 'very bad boy.'

Furthermore, I'm going to guess that Saphra has the emotional maturity to know that I'm just playing with her/him, so while I'm guilty of saying a personal joke on a public forum, you've deliberately misconstrued facts as noted by the fact that you've only 'cut' parts of my dialogue to suit your purpose.

I'm okay with sharing opinions, but you're deliberately combative to me, which is somewhat bemusing considering I wasn't even talking to you in the first place.

Grow up.

Modifié par Arijharn, 27 juillet 2011 - 11:12 .

[Arijharn]

Master Wolf wrote...
So your strategy is to use anger (an emotion) against machines that by defenition are not capable of feeling emotions?

Hmm, not really. Yes I used the words 'pissed off' but it was more to do with language short hand (much apologies for not making that clear), in other words its striking in such a way where a Reaper would be forced to reply in some way to ensure it's own survival with the eventual goal of  it marshalling its allies with the aim to permanently cease the guerilla style war.

But, I'm not sure how much emotions it doesn't or does know. For example; I think Legion shows emotional sides with it's eye flap movement, certain conversations and vocal inflections "Why didn't you use something else to repair your chest? -- No data available)  and mirroring Shephard mannerisms despite apparently being just a machine and having no need for it, and I think we've seen evidence of hubris on the part of the Reapers. Also, if we're marching eventually on Earth then we've must have had progress in engaging and defeating Reaper forces on the way.