2463 réponses à ce sujet

[Drake_Hound]

ArcticAvenger wrote...

Drake_Hound wrote...

But still no chuck norris incarnated ala Shepard.

You do know battle hardened and lucky god like SoB isn´t the same .
The old saying , he might be good , but is he lucky . still applies to today .

Luck helped them exterminate God knows how many races over the course of MILIONS of years?
Damn, man. I want that luck.

But you have that luck Shepard now , who foiled all there plans almost singlehanded .
See trouble of luck the reapers know it , that sooner or later it runs out .
So that is why they want Shepard badly , imagine Shepard Reaper .... luck for another billion of years.
But it ain´t going to happen

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I really cannot see any normal way in which we could defeat the Reaprs in a military conflict.

They have practicly every advantage imaginable:
They're are faster, more manuveralbe, FAR better shielded and more deadly. The got knowledhe of the galaxy and they can manipulate mass relays. They got no static points they need to defend, nor any civilina population they need to protect, nor any supply lines to cut.
You can't produce ships or infrastructure faster than they can destroy it - and they can destroy it.
They have the power to dictate the pace of battle, and thus keep the initiative.

Frankly, we need a McGuffin.

I read a history book once,superior force=/= victory

I read history books all the time, especially those on military conflict. It's a hobby of mine.

Ah,so you are aware that the reapers lost the biggest advantage of cutting off the relays for their divide and conquer blitzkrieg,they no longer have the ability to fight they way they want.

They did lost that advantage..up to a point.
All they need is to re-capture the Citadel (and with their number ans pwoer, that shouldn't be a problem)

But the point is that they don't need it. They can still dominate the battlefield easily. While they can't get anywhre they want as easily as they could before, they are stil lfaster and more manouverable than you and still dont' have any vital static assets.

Also, it is wrong to assume the repaers don't know the state of our galaxy. if Harbringer can communicate from Dark space AND control the Collector General, its' safe to assume Sovereign can easily share all he know with the rest of the reapers. Adn well...Harby knows too.

If they use any competent strategy, we are boned.
Heck, I can tell you a strategy they can use to wipe us out compeltely.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I was just thinking,(Ancient astronaut subscriber here) The pyramids are believed to be a refueling station,what if the Protheans hid a super weapon on Earth.

That would indeed be a Deus Ex Machina...a rather huge one at that.

[JBONE27]

Okay, I'll buy that the Earth will be turned into a smoking crater, and that the majority of humanity is on the Earth, but you forget one thing. Humanity has colonies, Elysium itself has a population of several million, which is more than enough to keep humanity from being wiped out due to a lack of genetic diversity. Humanity also has quite a few other colonies boasting at minimum 1000 humans, and there is the fact that the System's Alliance has one of the largest fleets in the galaxy (second only to the Turian and Quarian). Your assessment of the death of the Earth leading to the death of humanity is false.

As for your assessment of the Reapers,.. There are ways around the FTL problem. 1) sending a massive series of EMPs to disable their systems. 2) a 3 dimensional flanking maneuver, making it impossible for them to leave without fighting. 3) a misinformation relay, while in and of itself seems pointless, it would send them into well placed traps. There are ways to win any war provided you have 1 thing, intelligence. I'm not necessarily referring to the ability to obtain and process information, but knowledge about your enemy, which is something Shepard got at the end of ME2.

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle." Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

[Fast Jimmy]

JBONE27 wrote...

Okay, I'll buy that the Earth will be turned into a smoking crater, and that the majority of humanity is on the Earth, but you forget one thing. Humanity has colonies, Elysium itself has a population of several million, which is more than enough to keep humanity from being wiped out due to a lack of genetic diversity. Humanity also has quite a few other colonies boasting at minimum 1000 humans, and there is the fact that the System's Alliance has one of the largest fleets in the galaxy (second only to the Turian and Quarian). Your assessment of the death of the Earth leading to the death of humanity is false.

As for your assessment of the Reapers,.. There are ways around the FTL problem. 1) sending a massive series of EMPs to disable their systems. 2) a 3 dimensional flanking maneuver, making it impossible for them to leave without fighting. 3) a misinformation relay, while in and of itself seems pointless, it would send them into well placed traps. There are ways to win any war provided you have 1 thing, intelligence. I'm not necessarily referring to the ability to obtain and process information, but knowledge about your enemy, which is something Shepard got at the end of ME2.

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle." Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

Wow... that Sun Tzu quote is, like, REALLY familiar for some reason.

[Lotion Soronarr]

JBONE27 wrote...

As for your assessment of the Reapers,.. There are ways around the FTL problem. 1) sending a massive series of EMPs to disable their systems. 2) a 3 dimensional flanking maneuver, making it impossible for them to leave without fighting. 3) a misinformation relay, while in and of itself seems pointless, it would send them into well placed traps. There are ways to win any war provided you have 1 thing, intelligence. I'm not necessarily referring to the ability to obtain and process information, but knowledge about your enemy, which is something Shepard got at the end of ME2.

ERm....

1) Space ships are EMP shielded by default. Kinda a requirement to go into space. Military ships doubly so,

2) You don't know much about combat, do you?
3D flanking manouver? That MIGHT work if you outnumbered the enemy by massive margin...and he had no FLT jump ability..and if space was a lot smaller.

3) Assuming the reapers are dumb enough to fall for something like that. Checking the source of a message is a standard procedure among the military.

[JBONE27]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

As for your assessment of the Reapers,.. There are ways around the FTL problem. 1) sending a massive series of EMPs to disable their systems. 2) a 3 dimensional flanking maneuver, making it impossible for them to leave without fighting. 3) a misinformation relay, while in and of itself seems pointless, it would send them into well placed traps. There are ways to win any war provided you have 1 thing, intelligence. I'm not necessarily referring to the ability to obtain and process information, but knowledge about your enemy, which is something Shepard got at the end of ME2.

ERm....

1) Space ships are EMP shielded by default. Kinda a requirement to go into space. Military ships doubly so,

2) You don't know much about combat, do you?
3D flanking manouver? That MIGHT work if you outnumbered the enemy by massive margin...and he had no FLT jump ability..and if space was a lot smaller.

3) Assuming the reapers are dumb enough to fall for something like that. Checking the source of a message is a standard procedure among the military.

1) Reapers rely on surprise and a quick blitz like strategy, therefore are not expecting any real stratigically based form of resistance, so they probably only sheilded themselves from conventional weapons.
2) There are about 1,000,000 Reapers, there are about 25,000,000,000 ships between the System's Alliance, Turian Navy, and Quarian Flotilla.  I'd say 25 to 1 is a pretty large margin, don't you?
3) Again, they wouldn't follow regulation procedure, and they wouldn't think that a reaper signal could be replicated, therefore, they wouldn't check the source of the signal.

[Lotion Soronarr]

JBONE27 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1) Space ships are EMP shielded by default. Kinda a requirement to go into space. Military ships doubly so,

2) You don't know much about combat, do you?
3D flanking manouver? That MIGHT work if you outnumbered the enemy by massive margin...and he had no FLT jump ability..and if space was a lot smaller.

3) Assuming the reapers are dumb enough to fall for something like that. Checking the source of a message is a standard procedure among the military.

1) Reapers rely on surprise and a quick blitz like strategy, therefore are not expecting any real stratigically based form of resistance, so they probably only sheilded themselves from conventional weapons.
2) There are about 1,000,000 Reapers, there are about 25,000,000,000 ships between the System's Alliance, Turian Navy, and Quarian Flotilla.  I'd say 25 to 1 is a pretty large margin, don't you?
3) Again, they wouldn't follow regulation procedure, and they wouldn't think that a reaper signal could be replicated, therefore, they wouldn't check the source of the signal.

Tht's....rahter reaching.

1) you simply assume they have no EMP shielding, whihc is , as I say standard on every importnat piece of harware. Space Shuttles, naval warships, even tanks - all are EMP shielded. If the reapers were vulenrable t osomething so basic and simple, tehy never would have pulled off so many cycles.

2) Where are you getting those numbers from? Because that's hilarious! The SA fleet has 200 ships and it's among the biggest fleets among he Counci lraces.
And, even if those numbers where correct...you fail to grasp the magnitude of space and the difficulty in real 3D combat. Even if you have a 50000:1 ratio, you couldn't block a ship that has FTL from escapeing.

To give you a better idea...if you were to place automated defense platforms around a mass relay to blockade it compeltely...to fill a volume of space equal to 1AU with such platfroms...each being 10.000 km apart..
that's a volume of space equaling 27 000 000 000 km^3.
You'd need 27 million platforms...

The only way to keep a ship from escaping in the ME universe...is to attack something it has to stay and defend.


3) Reapers would be defeted trough their own utter stupidity? Again, you assume they're utter morons. Who would be sending that signal? They wouldn't trust any other source than another reaper.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 04 août 2011 - 07:22 .

[ArcticAvenger]

But you go by the idea that they are all going to meet in the same general area.

And since most if not all reapers are heading for earth, when combined fleet DOES arrive, it's gonna be a killing field.

[SpiffySquee]

Ok Saphra , let me try and get my head around this. You use a codex entry stating that a planet had several hundred ships destroyed about it. The Eezo from these ships wiped out the indigenous populace. Because of this, you state (as fact) that the earth will suffer the same fate. You completely ignore the fact that Eingana most likely had no advanced civilization on it (hence why people wanted to colonize it)

You compare wild life with humans and assume an event that wiped out one would naturally wipe out the other. You make this claim without any idea what technology Earth has at it's disposal. You have no information about techniques for cleaning up Eezo. You don't even know if humans are as susceptible to Eezo as the indigenous population on Eingana was. Yet, you still hold it as proof positive that our planet will be a waste land.

I saw you state in an earlier post:
   

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

    1) That technology has advanced alot since that planet and there could very well be ways of cleaning up Element Zero which that planet didn't have at the time.

Like what? A giant vacuum? That's ridiculous. Dust form element zero is exactly what it sounds like: dust. By the time it has poisoned the planet cleaning it up won't help much.

In any case I'm not going to invest all my faith in a technology that only might exist.

Show me the proof.

The burden of proof is placed on you, since you made the claim that we will surly die. True, no mention of such tech has been brought up, but that is because it was not relevant to the plot in the first two games. We also don't know how much jail time a crook on earth gets for knocking off a bank. Why? Because it was not important to know this information. A game has to choose what to tell you due to limited space on the disk. You cannot assume that Earth has no capability to combat Eezo disasters just because it has never been brought up. It would be like saying ducks are now extinct on earth because they are never mentioned.


Instead, you suggest we surrender on the small chance that once liquefied we will retain some essence of our selves. You say you don't want to " invest all my faith in a technology that only might exist" when referring to Eezo clean up, yet you are more than willing to " invest all my faith" in something far less likely? You have no idea what happens in the process, if we somehow maintain ourselves, or even if your genetic code remains intact. For all we know they only use bits and pieces of our genetic code, throwing the majority away. Then what? You can't still be you with a fraction of a genetic code.


You criticize us for grasping at a 5% chance of victory, yet seem to think one collector base that you may or may not be able to study after you surrender will possibly give you an answer as to whether or not you keep some sort of "self" when the reapers change you into goo. And if it doesn't, oh well! You already surrendered.


Lastly, you want us to join the reapers because, even if we win, the other races will gain reaper tech and might possibly wipe us out anyway. What evidence do you have that states we have a better chance with the reapers then with the other races? They are not in the habit of exterminating whole races just because they are weaker. Or are you saying we should just give up because they "might" reverse engineer reaper tech, and that "might" indoctrinated all of them and that "might" cause them to kill us anyway?


All I can say is I'm glad you aren't in charge of the army...

[JBONE27]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1) Space ships are EMP shielded by default. Kinda a requirement to go into space. Military ships doubly so,

2) You don't know much about combat, do you?
3D flanking manouver? That MIGHT work if you outnumbered the enemy by massive margin...and he had no FLT jump ability..and if space was a lot smaller.

3) Assuming the reapers are dumb enough to fall for something like that. Checking the source of a message is a standard procedure among the military.

1) Reapers rely on surprise and a quick blitz like strategy, therefore are not expecting any real stratigically based form of resistance, so they probably only sheilded themselves from conventional weapons.
2) There are about 1,000,000 Reapers, there are about 25,000,000,000 ships between the System's Alliance, Turian Navy, and Quarian Flotilla.  I'd say 25 to 1 is a pretty large margin, don't you?
3) Again, they wouldn't follow regulation procedure, and they wouldn't think that a reaper signal could be replicated, therefore, they wouldn't check the source of the signal.

Tht's....rahter reaching.

1) you simply assume they have no EMP shielding, whihc is , as I say standard on every importnat piece of harware. Space Shuttles, naval warships, even tanks - all are EMP shielded. If the reapers were vulenrable t osomething so basic and simple, tehy never would have pulled off so many cycles.

2) Where are you getting those numbers from? Because that's hilarious! The SA fleet has 200 ships and it's among the biggest fleets among he Counci lraces.
And, even if those numbers where correct...you fail to grasp the magnitude of space and the difficulty in real 3D combat. Even if you have a 50000:1 ratio, you couldn't block a ship that has FTL from escapeing.

To give you a better idea...if you were to place automated defense platforms around a mass relay to blockade it compeltely...to fill a volume of space equal to 1AU with such platfroms...each being 10.000 km apart..
that's a volume of space equaling 27 000 000 000 km^3.
You'd need 27 million platforms...

The only way to keep a ship from escaping in the ME universe...is to attack something it has to stay and defend.


3) Reapers would be defeted trough their own utter stupidity? Again, you assume they're utter morons. Who would be sending that signal? They wouldn't trust any other source than another reaper.

 I think they are stupid because they've shown their stupidity.  They have been attacking the same way for billions of years, and they really haven't thought of a back-up short cut?  No, they haven't otherwise they would be attacking somewhere other than the SW arm of the galaxy to start.  They don't disperse their troops.  All they do is engage in singular blitz strikes like the one they were planning against the Citidel.  Again, they don't change up their strategy at all... plus one of them was defeated by a worm, so what does that say about them?

[SpiffySquee]

JBONE27 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1) Space ships are EMP shielded by default. Kinda a requirement to go into space. Military ships doubly so,

2) You don't know much about combat, do you?
3D flanking manouver? That MIGHT work if you outnumbered the enemy by massive margin...and he had no FLT jump ability..and if space was a lot smaller.

3) Assuming the reapers are dumb enough to fall for something like that. Checking the source of a message is a standard procedure among the military.

1) Reapers rely on surprise and a quick blitz like strategy, therefore are not expecting any real stratigically based form of resistance, so they probably only sheilded themselves from conventional weapons.
2) There are about 1,000,000 Reapers, there are about 25,000,000,000 ships between the System's Alliance, Turian Navy, and Quarian Flotilla.  I'd say 25 to 1 is a pretty large margin, don't you?
3) Again, they wouldn't follow regulation procedure, and they wouldn't think that a reaper signal could be replicated, therefore, they wouldn't check the source of the signal.

Tht's....rahter reaching.

1) you simply assume they have no EMP shielding, whihc is , as I say standard on every importnat piece of harware. Space Shuttles, naval warships, even tanks - all are EMP shielded. If the reapers were vulenrable t osomething so basic and simple, tehy never would have pulled off so many cycles.

2) Where are you getting those numbers from? Because that's hilarious! The SA fleet has 200 ships and it's among the biggest fleets among he Counci lraces.
And, even if those numbers where correct...you fail to grasp the magnitude of space and the difficulty in real 3D combat. Even if you have a 50000:1 ratio, you couldn't block a ship that has FTL from escapeing.

To give you a better idea...if you were to place automated defense platforms around a mass relay to blockade it compeltely...to fill a volume of space equal to 1AU with such platfroms...each being 10.000 km apart..
that's a volume of space equaling 27 000 000 000 km^3.
You'd need 27 million platforms...

The only way to keep a ship from escaping in the ME universe...is to attack something it has to stay and defend.


3) Reapers would be defeted trough their own utter stupidity? Again, you assume they're utter morons. Who would be sending that signal? They wouldn't trust any other source than another reaper.

 I think they are stupid because they've shown their stupidity.  They have been attacking the same way for billions of years, and they really haven't thought of a back-up short cut?  No, they haven't otherwise they would be attacking somewhere other than the SW arm of the galaxy to start.  They don't disperse their troops.  All they do is engage in singular blitz strikes like the one they were planning against the Citidel.  Again, they don't change up their strategy at all... plus one of them was defeated by a worm, so what does that say about them?

In all fairness, you can't be sure of most of that. How do you know they have attacked the same way every time? Sure they might kick it off the same way, but we have no idea what happens after. I don't think it is so much that they could not think of a back up short cut, but that they did not have the capability to build one. The Citadel is a massive undertaking.

They don't disperse their troops? How in the world do you know this? Just because we have only seen them attacking earth does not mean they are not attacking other targets as well. And we do not know that the Worm defeated it. I beleive that we only know that the worm dragged it underground and then lasers started coming up from the ground. Do not mistake a surprise attack from a worm to equal stupidity form a reaper.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Nuke?

[Lotion Soronarr]

somehow I doubt that would work....

[SpiffySquee]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

somehow I doubt that would work....

unless that was their self destruct after finding the Justin Bieber archives

[IronVanguard]

How about really big hydrogen bombs?
Maybe shove a bit extra in there while we're at it. Dark matter nukes?

[vehzeel]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Ok Saphra , let me try and get my head around this. You use a codex entry stating that a planet had several hundred ships destroyed about it. The Eezo from these ships wiped out the indigenous populace. Because of this, you state (as fact) that the earth will suffer the same fate. You completely ignore the fact that Eingana most likely had no advanced civilization on it (hence why people wanted to colonize it)

You compare wild life with humans and assume an event that wiped out one would naturally wipe out the other. You make this claim without any idea what technology Earth has at it's disposal. You have no information about techniques for cleaning up Eezo. You don't even know if humans are as susceptible to Eezo as the indigenous population on Eingana was. Yet, you still hold it as proof positive that our planet will be a waste land.

I saw you state in an earlier post:
   

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

    1) That technology has advanced alot since that planet and there could very well be ways of cleaning up Element Zero which that planet didn't have at the time.

Like what? A giant vacuum? That's ridiculous. Dust form element zero is exactly what it sounds like: dust. By the time it has poisoned the planet cleaning it up won't help much.

In any case I'm not going to invest all my faith in a technology that only might exist.

Show me the proof.

The burden of proof is placed on you, since you made the claim that we will surly die. True, no mention of such tech has been brought up, but that is because it was not relevant to the plot in the first two games. We also don't know how much jail time a crook on earth gets for knocking off a bank. Why? Because it was not important to know this information. A game has to choose what to tell you due to limited space on the disk. You cannot assume that Earth has no capability to combat Eezo disasters just because it has never been brought up. It would be like saying ducks are now extinct on earth because they are never mentioned.


Instead, you suggest we surrender on the small chance that once liquefied we will retain some essence of our selves. You say you don't want to " invest all my faith in a technology that only might exist" when referring to Eezo clean up, yet you are more than willing to " invest all my faith" in something far less likely? You have no idea what happens in the process, if we somehow maintain ourselves, or even if your genetic code remains intact. For all we know they only use bits and pieces of our genetic code, throwing the majority away. Then what? You can't still be you with a fraction of a genetic code.


You criticize us for grasping at a 5% chance of victory, yet seem to think one collector base that you may or may not be able to study after you surrender will possibly give you an answer as to whether or not you keep some sort of "self" when the reapers change you into goo. And if it doesn't, oh well! You already surrendered.


Lastly, you want us to join the reapers because, even if we win, the other races will gain reaper tech and might possibly wipe us out anyway. What evidence do you have that states we have a better chance with the reapers then with the other races? They are not in the habit of exterminating whole races just because they are weaker. Or are you saying we should just give up because they "might" reverse engineer reaper tech, and that "might" indoctrinated all of them and that "might" cause them to kill us anyway?


All I can say is I'm glad you aren't in charge of the army...

I agree to what this guys said.

Also, Saphra, why would the Reapers even consider accepting a surrender? It's not like they'll let us live. All a surrender would do is to make it easier for the Reapers to kill us and/or turn us into a metallic slush puppy. The so called transcended state the Reapers "offer" can also be b*llsh*t for all we know. You seem to suggest that we let some people become some sort of metal monster that MAYBE might retain some sort of information the "ingredients" possessed, and then let the remaining human population die a horrible death?

[Medhia Nox]

I'm not sure some of you realize how insane it is to be arguing against the developers of a fictional title.

'WE CAN'T SAVE THE WIZARDING WORLD! HARRY POTTER CAN'T DEFEAT VOLDEMORT!'

What does your insignificant voice matter? You are not a designer of the game's universe.

When there is a victory at the end of Mass Effect 3 - you will have been proven wrong. The designers of this story have already decided you are wrong. Every name associated with the actual making of this game - has decided, likely unanimously - that you are not correct in your statement.

The only question is - "In what manner will Shepard defeat the Reapers?"

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Don't let this die. We're so so close to 70 pages.

[Medhia Nox]

I'm convinced Bioware allows these threads to exist just so all of "this" is in one place.

It's like shining a light on a nest of roaches. If you do - they'll scatter.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I'm convinced Bioware allows these threads to exist just so all of "this" is in one place.

It's like shining a light on a nest of roaches. If you do - they'll scatter.

Was just thinking that last night.

[SpiffySquee]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I'm not sure some of you realize how insane it is to be arguing against the developers of a fictional title.

'WE CAN'T SAVE THE WIZARDING WORLD! HARRY POTTER CAN'T DEFEAT VOLDEMORT!'

What does your insignificant voice matter? You are not a designer of the game's universe.

When there is a victory at the end of Mass Effect 3 - you will have been proven wrong. The designers of this story have already decided you are wrong. Every name associated with the actual making of this game - has decided, likely unanimously - that you are not correct in your statement.

The only question is - "In what manner will Shepard defeat the Reapers?"

That's like saying, why do people debate philosophy? There is no real answer you can point to, and the only thing it can change is your own perception. We debate it because we like to debate. It makes us see things in a different light, and allows us to share our perceptions with others. I was unaware, we need your approval to do so.

[100k]

Didn't I debunk this whole thread...while drunk?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

100k wrote...

Didn't I debunk this whole thread...while drunk?

The OP debunked this thread when she started contradicting herself.