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We Can't Save Earth, We Can't Beat the Reapers


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#1576
JBONE27

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SpiffySquee wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1) Space ships are EMP shielded by default. Kinda a requirement to go into space. Military ships doubly so,

2) You don't know much about combat, do you?:lol:
3D flanking manouver? That MIGHT work if you outnumbered the enemy by massive margin...and he had no FLT jump ability..and if space was a lot smaller.

3) Assuming the reapers are dumb enough to fall for something like that. Checking the source of a message is a standard procedure among the military.


1) Reapers rely on surprise and a quick blitz like strategy, therefore are not expecting any real stratigically based form of resistance, so they probably only sheilded themselves from conventional weapons.
2) There are about 1,000,000 Reapers, there are about 25,000,000,000 ships between the System's Alliance, Turian Navy, and Quarian Flotilla.  I'd say 25 to 1 is a pretty large margin, don't you?
3) Again, they wouldn't follow regulation procedure, and they wouldn't think that a reaper signal could be replicated, therefore, they wouldn't check the source of the signal.



Tht's....rahter reaching.

1) you simply assume they have no EMP shielding, whihc is , as I say standard on every importnat piece of harware. Space Shuttles, naval warships, even tanks - all are EMP shielded. If the reapers were vulenrable t osomething so basic and simple, tehy never would have pulled off so many cycles.

2) Where are you getting those numbers from? Because that's hilarious! The SA fleet has 200 ships and it's among the biggest fleets among he Counci lraces.
And, even if those numbers where correct...you fail to grasp the magnitude of space and the difficulty in real 3D combat. Even if you have a 50000:1 ratio, you couldn't block a ship that has FTL from escapeing.

To give you a better idea...if you were to place automated defense platforms around a mass relay to blockade it compeltely...to fill a volume of space equal to 1AU with such platfroms...each being 10.000 km apart..
that's a volume of space equaling 27 000 000 000 km^3.
You'd need 27 million platforms...:blush:

The only way to keep a ship from escaping in the ME universe...is to attack something it has to stay and defend.


3) Reapers would be defeted trough their own utter stupidity? Again, you assume they're utter morons. Who would be sending that signal? They wouldn't trust any other source than another reaper.

 I think they are stupid because they've shown their stupidity.  They have been attacking the same way for billions of years, and they really haven't thought of a back-up short cut?  No, they haven't otherwise they would be attacking somewhere other than the SW arm of the galaxy to start.  They don't disperse their troops.  All they do is engage in singular blitz strikes like the one they were planning against the Citidel.  Again, they don't change up their strategy at all... plus one of them was defeated by a worm, so what does that say about them?


In all fairness, you can't be sure of most of that. How do you know they have attacked the same way every time? Sure they might kick it off the same way, but we have no idea what happens after. I don't think it is so much that they could not think of a back up short cut, but that they did not have the capability to build one. The Citadel is a massive undertaking.

They don't disperse their troops? How in the world do you know this? Just because we have only seen them attacking earth does not mean they are not attacking other targets as well. And we do not know that the Worm defeated it. I beleive that we only know that the worm dragged it underground and then lasers started coming up from the ground. Do not mistake a surprise attack from a worm to equal stupidity form a reaper.

I know this because Casey Hudson said the reason they were only attacking Earth to start with is because it was in the southwest part of the galxy near the edge, and they (The Reapers) are attacking Earth exclusively to start with because it's the closest, not because it has anything to do with Shepard.  That to me says that they attack each planet full force, usually (actually every time except for this one) starting with the citidel, which always had the vast majority of the galaxy's naval forces.  They fight hard and heavy, attacking the most densely populated and heavily defended part first (I. E. The Citidel).
Also, the Citidel was built billions of years ago, and the Reapers have been coming back every 10,000 years.  They usually stay for about 1000 years to weed out what little resistance there is, leaving the non-space fareing species to reproduce and provide them with future material to make new reapers.  You don't think that several hundred million years total would have been enough for them to build back-up systems in case the citidel relay failed?

#1577
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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100k wrote...

Didn't I debunk this whole thread...while drunk?


No, you got angry and left.

#1578
100k

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Saphra Deden wrote...

100k wrote...

Didn't I debunk this whole thread...while drunk?


No, you got angry and left.


Always glad to know you're remembering me
:D:D:D

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#1579
Fathom72

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I'm curious as to whether or not the OP believes this is how ME3 is going to go down.

#1580
SJK93

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Fathom72 wrote...

I'm curious as to whether or not the OP believes this is how ME3 is going to go down.


I asked the same question like 3 times, and never got an answer.

#1581
SpiffySquee

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[quote]JBONE27 wrote...

[/quote] I know this because Casey Hudson said the reason they were only attacking Earth to start with is because it was in the southwest part of the galxy near the edge, and they (The Reapers) are attacking Earth exclusively to start with because it's the closest, not because it has anything to do with Shepard.  That to me says that they attack each planet full force, usually (actually every time except for this one) starting with the citidel, which always had the vast majority of the galaxy's naval forces.  They fight hard and heavy, attacking the most densely populated and heavily defended part first (I. E. The Citidel).
Also, the Citidel was built billions of years ago, and the Reapers have been coming back every 10,000 years.  They usually stay for about 1000 years to weed out what little resistance there is, leaving the non-space fareing species to reproduce and provide them with future material to make new reapers.  You don't think that several hundred million years total would have been enough for them to build back-up systems in case the citidel relay failed?[/quote]


Where in the world are you getting your numbers from? The Citadel billions of years old? No one has ever said that. Come back every 10,000 years? The believed cycle period is 50,000 years. Stay a thousand years? Vigil says that exterminating a society takes centuries. It is a far stretch to get 1000 years from that. 

I also don't remember Anyone saying they are attacking Earth exclusively (someone correct me if I missed something). In fact the developers state this is war on a galactic scale which would suggest they are attacking everywhere, not just earth.

As far as building a back up, since i don't know what is involved in building even one Citadel, no, I can't say whether that would be enough time. 

Modifié par SpiffySquee, 05 août 2011 - 02:38 .


#1582
SandTrout

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For the love of the Enkindlers, let this thread die already.

#1583
trickyturok

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we'll fight you till hell freezes over then we'll fight on the ice

#1584
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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The Reapers attacking everywhere can actually make things harder for us as it will make the other races less inclined to gamble everything on saving our world. If Earth is just one among many worlds under assault then it also isn't as useful as an anvil with which to break the Reapers over.

SandTrout wrote...

For the love of the Enkindlers, let this thread die already.


If you are sick of this thread then stop posting in it.

Modifié par Saphra Deden, 05 août 2011 - 04:25 .


#1585
sympathy4saren

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A united galaxy against the Reapers would get annihilated. The Reapers cannot be beaten outright through force. If they are, it will ruin it all in the end.

#1586
Sisterofshane

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Think about it this way.

Before ME1 we had a 1% chance of surviving the Reaper invasion.

After ME1 we had the Citadel and relays under our control which increased our odds of survival by 500%. (probably not nearly that much)

So now we have a 5% chance of victory. Whoopidy-doo.


Think you meant we had a 1% chance, then it was *multiplied* 500 times.

Because increase would be to add, meaning our chances of survival would be 501%.

But, still any chance is better to me than no chance.

*letting the thread die now*

#1587
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Sisterofshane, that's not how it works.

I didn't say it was increased 500 times, I said it was increased by 500 percent, or multiplied by 5. A number times 1 is always the original number.

I used 500% precisely because on the surface it looks like a huge increase when really it isn't.

#1588
Sisterofshane

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Just grammar rage, is all. I didn't say that you were wrong, but that it appeared wrong in the first post.

#1589
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trickyturok wrote...

we'll fight you till hell freezes over then we'll fight on the ice

Mass Effect on Ice, a brand new ice theatre show by Francis Kitt, starring Bolun the Volus as Commander Shepard, will be coming to theatres March 6th 2186.

#1590
Humanoid_Typhoon

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Arcian wrote...

trickyturok wrote...

we'll fight you till hell freezes over then we'll fight on the ice

Mass Effect on Ice, a brand new ice theatre show by Francis Kitt, starring Bolun the Volus as Commander Shepard, will be coming to theatres March 6th 2186.

Harbinger-"Our attacks will blot out the sun"
Shepard-"Then we'll fight in the shade."

#1591
SJK93

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Arcian wrote...

trickyturok wrote...

we'll fight you till hell freezes over then we'll fight on the ice

Mass Effect on Ice, a brand new ice theatre show by Francis Kitt, starring Bolun the Volus as Commander Shepard, will be coming to theatres March 6th 2186.

Harbinger-"Our attacks will blot out the sun"
Shepard-"Then we'll fight in the shade."


Ever notice Grunt's dialogue if you take him on Tali's recruitment mission? Someone says something about the sun damaging your shields and he says, "Then we'll fight in the shade. But no hiding!"

Better get this back on topic.

#1592
Arijharn

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Think about it this way.

Before ME1 we had a 1% chance of surviving the Reaper invasion.

After ME1 we had the Citadel and relays under our control which increased our odds of survival by 500%. (probably not nearly that much)

So now we have a 5% chance of victory. Whoopidy-doo.


As far as I see it, you've chosen extinction anyway.

#1593
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Arijharn wrote...

As far as I see it, you've chosen extinction anyway.


I've chosen to gamble for evolution over extinction.

#1594
Humanoid_Typhoon

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

As far as I see it, you've chosen extinction anyway.


I've chosen to gamble for evolution over extinction.



Doesn't evolving mean the previous species is extinct...

#1595
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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Doesn't evolving mean the previous species is extinct...


Not really, no. It means it has changed. It's descended from modern humans. That's very different from modern humans just being exterminated.

#1596
Humanoid_Typhoon

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Doesn't evolving mean the previous species is extinct...


Not really, no. It means it has changed. It's descended from modern humans. That's very different from modern humans just being exterminated.

Well,if every human being was "Ascended"/exterminated we would no longer be ****** Sapiens we would be something else ****** Mortis nuntius

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 05 août 2011 - 09:20 .


#1597
Lotion Soronarr

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Ok...just to bring this to a close...I'll take command of hte reaper forces. You take command of the resistance. I'll tell you the reaper attack strategy... let's see if you can win this.



1. Reapers will stike the infrastructure and power generation and food production first, starting with the biggest and most vital planets.
Shipyards are the primary targets in space.

2. Reapers will move in force. At no point will any force/fleet consist of less than 50 reapers.

3. Should the kinetic barriers come in danger of collapsing, the reaper will disengage and FTL to another unguarded enemy asset or, if no scuh exists in the vicinity, to a pre-established rally point.

4. Destruction of key enemy infrastructure takes precedence over total anihilation of all resistance on a planet. Once all the primary objectives have been completed, the reapers are to move to the next planet/world.
Possibly, leave a small force behind to bombard the planet from orbit and then follow.

5. The fleets will avoid any unencessry stops or delays - they are to be constantly on the move, using hit-and-run attacks.

6. Using precision relay jumps, jump into tacticly advantagous positions.

7. Send probes to sweep systems for bases and shipyards, and any supply convoys.

8. If the resitance sends fleet assests from somewhere else to reainforce a world under attack - disengage and FTL to the world from which the reinforcements came and hit it. Avoid getting unnecesarily tied down.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 05 août 2011 - 09:13 .


#1598
Humanoid_Typhoon

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That's great....except...you don't know how they will attack.

#1599
Lotion Soronarr

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

That's great....except...you don't know how they will attack.



No, I don't.
I'm giving you a simple attack strategy that even a novice tactician/strategist can come up with. A tactic that you cannot hope to beat with your resources and your strategic situation.

And if reapers are even remottely as smart as they claim to be, they can come up with even far more efficient combat plans than this.


Bottom point - if you can't counter this, then don't come claiming we can win in a direct military conflict without some McGuffin.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 05 août 2011 - 09:22 .


#1600
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

That's great....except...you don't know how they will attack.


He's just formulating a strategy the Reapers could employ which could defeat us. That's good planning.

Your job is to figure out a hole in his strategy.

You'll have to do something similar with the Reapers. That is, you'll have to determine what their strategy is and find a way to counter it with a strategy of your own.

This thread is basically intended to be one elaborate war game.

So far nobody has presented a strategy for winning. Not a detailed one anyway.

Even Arijharn was working off of the assumption that he'd already won the rest of the galaxy.