2463 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The GARDIAN lasers are just there to shoot down ships/missiles, not mass accelerator slugs.

See, that's exactly what I don't get. Why? Or, more to the point, why not?

If the GARDIAN system is so effective at shooting down a projectile with a guidance system, payload, and independent drive (in a word: a "missile"), why not turn that formidable system against the solid ferrous slugs that are apparently the mainstay of deep space combat in the MEverse? If anything, I'd expect the latter to be easier to intercept since they are simply moving on a ballistic trajectory and not maneuvering under power.

[Soahfreako]

I'mma screenshot this thread's OP. Then when I defeat the Reapers I shall take a screenshot of everyone being happy. I shall then make a thread about absolutely nothing related to two. What a twist!

[Someone With Mass]

General User wrote...

See, that's exactly what I don't get. Why? Or, more to the point, why not?

If the GARDIAN system is so effective at shooting down a projectile with a guidance system, payload, and independent drive (in a word: a "missile"), why not turn that formidable system against the solid ferrous slugs that are apparently the mainstay of deep space combat in the MEverse? If anything, I'd expect the latter to be easier to intercept since they are simply moving on a ballistic trajectory and not maneuvering under power.

Oh, but they do have a system against that. It's called kinetic barriers.

[Bogsnot1]

The lasers work by heating up the missile payload and/or fuel, causing it to explode.
Mass accelerator slugs have no payload, or fuel, and thus have nothing for the laser to work on.
The only counter to a MA slug, would be another MA slug, or a rocket/missile to knock it off course with the explosive effect.

Edit: I mean counter as in active counter, rather than passive counter such as a kinetic barrier.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 10 août 2011 - 02:41 .

[General User]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Do you mean CIWS?

I think GARDIAN is meant to be the ME version of CIWS.

[General User]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

The lasers work by heating up the missile payload and/or fuel, causing it to explode.
Mass accelerator slugs have no payload, or fuel, and thus have nothing for the laser to work on.
The only counter to a MA slug, would be another MA slug, or a rocket/missile to knock it off course with the explosive effect.

Edit: I mean counter as in active counter, rather than passive counter such as a kinetic barrier.

Oh, I see.  That's cool!  The more I know.

*grumble, grumble*
I still say that if fighter craft can get right in on an enemy there is no reason a missle can't.
/grumble

[Bogsnot1]

General User wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

The lasers work by heating up the missile payload and/or fuel, causing it to explode.
Mass accelerator slugs have no payload, or fuel, and thus have nothing for the laser to work on.
The only counter to a MA slug, would be another MA slug, or a rocket/missile to knock it off course with the explosive effect.

Edit: I mean counter as in active counter, rather than passive counter such as a kinetic barrier.

Oh, I see.  That's cool!  The more I know.

*grumble, grumble*
I still say that if fighter craft can get right in on an enemy there is no reason a missle can't.
/grumble

The difference between fighter craft and missiles would be twofold.
1) Ladar/Radar profiling would reveal the incoming objects to match certain profiles, which would give the defence AI/VI different priority responses. 
2) Incoming trajectory: Missiles would follow pretty much "stright line" approach, where the manned craft would maneuver around to try and attack from a safe angle. Defence AI/VI would look at these trajectories, and react accordingly.

An ICBM style nuke would packa lot more punch than a fighter launched nuke, and thus would get the priority in the defence programming.

Theres probably a few more differences, but I'm running low on coffee. 
For the record, I'm not picking on you, or agreeing with OP in any way, just helping show the flaws behind smoe plans, so we can focus on some good ones to defeat the Reapers. I still think Super Eezo Friends, riding Thresher Maws for Epic Acid Spit shield bypass, is the best way to go at the present time. 

[General User]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

General User wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

The lasers work by heating up the missile payload and/or fuel, causing it to explode.
Mass accelerator slugs have no payload, or fuel, and thus have nothing for the laser to work on.
The only counter to a MA slug, would be another MA slug, or a rocket/missile to knock it off course with the explosive effect.

Edit: I mean counter as in active counter, rather than passive counter such as a kinetic barrier.

Oh, I see.  That's cool!  The more I know.

*grumble, grumble*
I still say that if fighter craft can get right in on an enemy there is no reason a missle can't.
/grumble

The difference between fighter craft and missiles would be twofold.
1) Ladar/Radar profiling would reveal the incoming objects to match certain profiles, which would give the defence AI/VI different priority responses. 
2) Incoming trajectory: Missiles would follow pretty much "stright line" approach, where the manned craft would maneuver around to try and attack from a safe angle. Defence AI/VI would look at these trajectories, and react accordingly.

An ICBM style nuke would packa lot more punch than a fighter launched nuke, and thus would get the priority in the defence programming.

Theres probably a few more differences, but I'm running low on coffee. 
For the record, I'm not picking on you, or agreeing with OP in any way, just helping show the flaws behind smoe plans, so we can focus on some good ones to defeat the Reapers. I still think Super Eezo Friends, riding Thresher Maws for Epic Acid Spit shield bypass, is the best way to go at the present time. 

Certainly the most stylish, there's no debate on that.

But you bring up real good points about fighter launched nukes. I guess the question then shifts to: What are the specifics of nukes in the MEverse? How small can they be made, and of what yield? I tend to think that, in keeping with the general state of technology in ME, nukes of relatively small size could very easily have surprisingly large yields.

Now, I was also thinking about the guidance system of a missile. And the thing is; I don't see why, with an onboard VI of their own, they shouldn't be able to perform fairly sophisticated maneuvers. Hell, with quantum entanglement technology, you could have honest-to-God military pilots guiding the things in.

[RubiconI7]

As long as they don't do a deux ex machina.
I really hope they don't do a deux ex machina...

[Gabey5]

it is simple.. we make the enemy come out and meet us on the open field

[breakdown71289]

RubiconI7 wrote...

As long as they don't do a deux ex machina.
I really hope they don't do a deux ex machina...

I hope they do a deus ex machina LOL

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

1.Find Reapers
2.Draw Reapers in
3.Roll them up in a carpet and throw them off a bridge!

[RubiconI7]

breakdown71289 wrote...

RubiconI7 wrote...

As long as they don't do a deux ex machina.
I really hope they don't do a deux ex machina...

I hope they do a deus ex machina LOL

Just watch ME3 be a quest about a duo of volus(s?) trying to throw an omnitool into a volcano that will magically kill all the Reapers.

Anyway, comming up a way to defeat the Reapers is the writers' fun. As long as they don't get us to throw rings into volcanoes. I am really interested on how they are going to introduce a way to kill a fleet of gods Reapers without a huge twist. An epic battle between Reapers and all the spiecies with huge casualties and morally ambiguous decisions would be ideal.

[Bogsnot1]

General User wrote...
But you bring up real good points about fighter launched nukes. I guess the question then shifts to: What are the specifics of nukes in the MEverse? How small can they be made, and of what yield? I tend to think that, in keeping with the general state of technology in ME, nukes of relatively small size could very easily have surprisingly large yields.

With ME tech, we could styart going into the realms of unconventional nukes, and I mean unconventional in terms of their fuel, such as using Francium rather than Uranium. We could also have the ability to use the "rare and unstable" elements which do not naturally exist on Earth, and instead require specific conditions, such as zero pressure and extrame temperatures to be stable.
Its entirely possible that a "sidewinder" sized missile packed with one of these elements could have all the punch of the Tsar bomb.

Now, I was also thinking about the guidance system of a missile. And the thing is; I don't see why, with an onboard VI of their own, they shouldn't be able to perform fairly sophisticated maneuvers. Hell, with quantum entanglement technology, you could have honest-to-God military pilots guiding the things in.

Both of those ideas have their merits, and there are a few more possible scenarios as well.
One would be a cluster missile, once it gets to a certain range, it pops its top, and micromissiles erupt, flower out, and then arc back in on a trajectory to all impact the same point to maximise the impact.
Another is improved stealth tech to avoid ladar/radar silhouette, especially for space based combat. Given that there would be no atmospheric drag, you cold make the reflective surfaces rather extreme for space missiles, as long as the propulsion unit remained along its centreline and centre of gravity. Pulsed propulsion would also bypass the constant heat signature that is produced by a constantly firing engine.

[Bogsnot1]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

1.Find Reapers
2.Draw Reapers in
3.Club them with a pipe wrench
4.Roll them up in a carpet and throw them off a bridge!

Fixed.

[SandTrout]

@Bogsnot1,

Sorry to go off topic, but you kind of inspired me on how the inevitable ME MMO could be done by copying a lot of the EvE Online features. Space combat in ME has not been thoroughly explored yet.

Stealth cruise missiles are a very interesting concept that could be implemented against the Reapers, and could also translate to a space-sim like EvE.

[Bogsnot1]

SandTrout wrote...
@Bogsnot1,

Sorry to go off topic, but you kind of inspired me on how the inevitable ME MMO could be done by copying a lot of the EvE Online features. Space combat in ME has not been thoroughly explored yet.

Stealth cruise missiles are a very interesting concept that could be implemented against the Reapers, and could also translate to a space-sim like EvE.

I'm not sure if they will implement playable space combat in any ME MMO, as it would probably diversify the game too much. You will get some people who are absolutely brilliant at the space combat with excellent 3d awareness, but are lousy at ground combat due to the limited dimensions in which to move, and vice verse.

If you're a member of Eve, feel free to forward the idea to the devs. I dont play it, but I hear they have a decent feedback policy. If it gets implented, then you owe me a cookie, or a beer. 

[DrFumb1ezX]

It could be worse. There could be bears... dressed as ninjas. W/ chainsaws. Riding Reapers. In July.

[SandTrout]

I was going to post, but I'm going to put in into the MMO thread that's around here somewhere...

[stysiaq]

Reading and thinking about the OP resulted in almost unavoidable fear, that ME3 will disregard almost all the lore ME1 & ME2 established via the 'slightly hidden' planet descriptions, or even the codex entrys. Everything for the sake of allowing us to succeed.

There will be a Deus Ex Machina. There's no other way. The organic life has absolutely nothing to defend themselves against such force as the Reapers. We have NO INTEL. At the moment of invasion, we WONT have any intel. Even if combined forces of all the universe will destroy, lets say, one Reaper, it will be too dangerous to even study the remains.

Now I even doubt that leaving CB intact will have any influence on ME3. After all, all we can do with it is reverse engineering. And what will be reverse-engineered? Technology to build a Human Reaper? Well, maybe we should consider this option for our future. Because our fleets won't defend us.

Battleships aren't bacteria. We don't even have the chance to build enough ships to match the NUMBERS of the Reapers (combat-wise), not even mentioning their power. And honestly - are we even given a glimpse, that the Citadel races started preparations for the invasion? Because I think not. The galaxy is not mobilized to fight few minutes before the attack.

More than that, this galaxy IS THEIR PLAYGROUND. They forged the Mass Relays. Our communication, moving the fleets between star clusters - they designed it. And, as the proper OWNERS of the galaxy, they control it. What (besides bad, non-consistent writing) will prevent them from reprogramming all the mass relays in the way they want, in a matter of hours after arrival?

And reverse engineering will always be inferior to original ideas. Even the whole 'Thanix Cannon' is a dellusion of a success. I don't believe, that mere two years of study allowed the Turians to fully re-create the Reaper battery. And even that imperfect calque drawing managed to top every other organics' invention in terms of firepower. Because it's the only invention that Reapers did not want us to see.

How much didn't we see? How many inventions that exceed the power of anything we will ever create we don't realise the existance of?

It's deus ex machina that will save the organic life. any other solution contradicts the previous games.

[rpgfan321]

I bet there will be a deus ex machina. The nature of fiction, I think, requires some deus ex sometime or another. But I'll still play the game, enjoy it, and get my money's worth.

[Ben800000]

I suspect the resolution will involve a eucatastrophe, not a deus ex machina.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Assuming that every ship that crashes will in-fact leak eezo.