2463 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Capeo wrote...

Without relays Reapers take just as long as any other ship to get anywhere.  The different races would have plenty of time to be replenishing ranks.  Reapers aren't unlimited in number.  If we knocked out relays we'd have tons of time.  We also have access, likely, to a cannon that can take Reapers out.  Sure, the ratio of Reapers killed to ships lost will be bad but, again, they aren't unlimited in number.  Plus we'll likely have most of the geth on our side this time.

Actually no. Reapers FTL is faster and more efficient. They will get to their destiantion faster than you.
And isolating yourself is exactly what the reapers would want. Without realys, all the fleets a system builds will be in no position to assist other systems.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



Reapers FTL is faster and more efficient.

Source?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...



Reapers FTL is faster and more efficient.

Source?

Read a bit on FTL. The limits on speed and range.
Reapers crossed that vast distance in only 2 years, without any places to discharge their drive cores.

No known ship in the galaxy can come even CLOSE to that.


The precise maximum speed and the time this acceleration can be
maintained varies depending on the exact type of FTL drive being used.
In general, the larger the drive, the longer the ship can run at FTL.



Element zero FTL drives accumulate a static electrical charge when a
vessel has been in FTL flight for some time. This charge steadily
increases with the amount of time a vessel spends in FTL. Eventually, it
must be discharged. The safe method involves discharging into a planet's
magnetic field (for large ships, incapable of planetary landings) or
actual surface contact (in the case of smaller vessels). Space stations
and similar structures which are not located near planets are usually
equipped with their own discharging facilities; the Citadel has dozens of these.
If the drive charge cannot be discharged, it will eventually
accumulate to the point at which it discharges into the ship's hull. The
heat will fry everything inside; fusing the bulkheads, destroying the electronics and killing all the crew members.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 26 août 2011 - 07:43 .

[SandTrout]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not baseless. Space is a different kind of battlefield. Reapers are a different kind of enemy.
They don't have territory to hold. They don't have a production line or populace to protect. Teh battle isn't faught far from your popualtion and production centers.[/quote] They still cannot attack every one of our population/industrial centers at the same time. The war is different from the Reapers' point of view, but is is no different from our point of view except that we only need to kill the standing force, and not need to worry about them replenishing their ranks. We still need to stop their blitz, but that is required, regardless.


[quote]
Except in space it's far more difficult to hide those same shipyards. It's far more difficult to protect those same shipyards.[/quote] Difficulties overcome by coresponding technical advances. It is actually easier to protect those shipyard because they can be relocated easier than shore-based facilities and have many more places that they can be moved to. All that would be necessary would be to move the shipyard out of panetary orbit and the Reapers would have much greater difficulty in finding them.


[quote]
You're assuming all ships have FTL. If the resources are delivered from a planet into orbit, FTL is not necessary.
Also, consetrating your defenses might be even worse for you.
Go ahead, have a thousand ships protect your shipyard. Then a hunderd reapers will arrive and wipe out that shipyard and all of your defending ships.[/quote] The worst possible ratio that we're looking at with casualty numbers is 1:8, which is well within the 1:10 ratio of 1 hundred vs 1 thousand, and does not take into account technical advances. As for all ships haveing FTL, non-FTL shuttles are irrelivant, because if the Reapers can hit those, then they're probably hitting the stations as well anyways. Supply lines that are vulnerable are the interstellar ones.

[quote]Remember - they are both faster and more manouverable, better protected and more powerfull.[/quote] And finite in number. Whatever they brought with them is all that they have. I'm not trying to match them ship for ship. I'm willing to

[quote]
How do you force them to purge a system completely?
All they have to do is destroy all your stations and shipyards in the system (and possibly some ships) and move on. Maybe fire a few shots at a few key points on the planet to boot.
They can easily move on then - that planet won't be a threat to them anymore for some time - if at all. [/quote] Not all production is space-based. Fighters and frigates can
likely be produced groundside. Also, final assembly areas can be
remanufactured in short order it there remains a viable labor pool
(population). Most ship parts are produced off-site and transported to
the assembly area, not manufactured in orbit. Orbit is only where final assemby takes place, and final assembly is actually relatively easy, once the individual parts have been manufactured.

[quote]You can re-take and start building again, but it will take you months, years for that planet to be of any tactical use again. And in months they can rape half hte galaxy.[/quote] More like weeks, actually, especially if that planet's main value is raw materials. Heavy industry is spread out wide enough to require a substantial investment in time in order to erradicate, meanwhile our fleets would be hitting the occasional Reaper patrolling the system and retreating.


[quote]And again, you're comparing building TANKS with building 500 meter long STARSHIPS. There is no comparison between them.[/quote] Wrong, I was comparing producing seagoing vessels to cruisers, which are only about maybe 200 meters long. Tanks are more comparable to fighters, which might also play a key role in the fight against the Reapers.

[quote]Space shisp are expensive and very sophisticated. The Sapce Shuttle costs more than a carrier, and it's only a fraction of it's size. Furthermore, ships are build in space, not on groud.[/quote] The space shuttle is also a pure custom vessele and does not have be benefits of production at scale. Spaceships in ME are far easier to produce, relatively speaking, than the shuttle due to advances in construction techniques and other technology, such as mass effect fields that make spaceborne manufacture easier. Also, there is already a lot of spaceship manufacture done on a regular basis, and is efficient enough that corporations are pulling a profit off of it.

[quote]Tanks will be of little help agaisnt the reapers. And the hunderds of ship the US produced during WW2? Most of those were small vessels, built from shipyards THAT WERE NEVER UNDER ATTACK AT ANY POINT.
The American home soil was completely safe. This is not the case with the war here.[/quote] You are are arguing that I am claiming that tanks are going to be of use against the Reapers. That is a LIE, and I ask that you pull your head out of your ass. I am pointing out what wartime production is cappable of, especially when you consider the scale of economy that we are dealing with in ME. Yes, we need to secure our production facilities, but the Reapers cannot hit everywhere at once without spreading them selves so thin that they will become relatively easy pickings for the fleets.

[quote]Population numbers alone won't help you. Building starships is not the same as bulding a tank. As veichles become more and more complex, their production becomes more complex too.
I told you before, you cannot compare directly.[/quote] Population represents labor pool, and I am compareing ships to ships, not tanks to ships. A larger labor pool, and by corelation, a larger manufacturing base, represents about 1000x what the US had at its desposal durring WW2. Edit: Rethought the numbers, we're looking at 10,000x the manufacturing power of the US.

[quote]If you refuse to give them a decisive engagement, how do you plan to stop them or slow them down?
You can't have it both ways. Either you risk your fleet assets to slow the reapers down, or you give reapers free reign. If you don't slow them down, within a month you won't have any shipyards left.[/quote] Strategic judgement is required to determine where it is necessary to engage the Reapers. We do not engage the main force as they approach the planet, we harrass them as they destroy it, drawing away some of their forces before disengageing, thus slowing down whatever they are doing on the planet.

[/quote]Destroying the relays partialy works in their favor too. If they can't get to you, then your fleets on the other side can't get to where they are needed either. And reapers can travel at FTL faster and moere efficient than you.[/quote] Time remains on our side. If we can delay them enough, then we can produce enough ships and go Russian on them, eventually.

[quote]Ground combat where you hide in jugnles/rocky mountain and among local populace does NOT compare to space combat in any way, shape or form.
Exactly where do you plan to hide your ships?
[/quote]I am talking strategy, not tactics. The strategy in Vietnam and Afghanistan was to cause enough casualties to force a withdrawl. Similarly, my stategy involves causing enough causualties that the Reapers can no longer drive a sucessful offensive.

As for where to hide out fleets, gas-giants and interstellar space seem adequate to me.

Modifié par SandTrout, 26 août 2011 - 08:06 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]SandTrout wrote...

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Not baseless. Space is a different kind of battlefield. Reapers are a different kind of enemy.
They don't have territory to hold. They don't have a production line or populace to protect. Teh battle isn't faught far from your popualtion and production centers.[/quote]

They still cannot attack every one of our population/industrial centers at the same time. The war is different from the Reapers' point of view, but is is no different from our point of view except that we only need to kill the standing force, and not need to worry about them replenishing their ranks. We still need to stop their blitz, but that is required, regardless.[/quote]

They don't have to attack all loactions at once. And the war is different from our POV as well. No military force in history has ever fought agaisnt an enemy with strategic and tactical capabiliteis of a reaper.


[quote][quote]
Except in space it's far more difficult to hide those same shipyards. It's far more difficult to protect those same shipyards.[/quote]
Difficulties overcome by coresponding technical advances. It is actually easier to protect those shipyard because they can be relocated easier than shore-based facilities and have many more places that they can be moved to. All that would be necessary would be to move the shipyard out of panetary orbit and the Reapers would have much greater difficulty in finding them.[/quote]

I told you - you can't hide large active obejct in space. ME fluff itself tells you so.
You could drag a shipyard somewhere else, but you'll have to mantain a suppyl line to it. Ships going to and from it are easiyl detectable.
There's really no plausible way to hide shipyards from the reapers.
Even worse, it's far more diffcult to REPLACE them.


[quote]
[quote]
You're assuming all ships have FTL. If the resources are delivered from a planet into orbit, FTL is not necessary.
Also, consetrating your defenses might be even worse for you.
Go ahead, have a thousand ships protect your shipyard. Then a hunderd reapers will arrive and wipe out that shipyard and all of your defending ships.[/quote]

The worst possible ratio that we're looking at with casualty numbers is 1:8, which is well within the 1:10 ratio of 1 hundred vs 1 thousand, and does not take into account technical advances. As for all ships haveing FTL, non-FTL shuttles are irrelivant, because if the Reapers can hit those, then they're probably hitting the stations as well anyways. Supply lines that are vulnerable are the interstellar ones.[/quote]


No. Where are you getting those numbers from? Sovereign? Sovereign wasn't even evading. He wasn't even using it's main gun. And we still don't know what caused it's shields to fail.
What makes you evne think you'll be able to take out any reaper ship AT ALL?

We've seen Sovereign take concetrated firepower of two fleets... for quite a while. All the while not moving at all.

Reapers can 1-shot-kill our ships. You can't do that to the reapes. Damaged reapers or reapers whose bariers are close to failing can FTL away, robbing you of the kill. Your ships can't do that. They don't have that durabiltiy saftey net that gives them time to disengage.
So a reaper has a main gun (that cna skewer dreadnoughts) and a beam-like weapon in each leg that can 1-shot a crusier. A single reaper can take out 5-6 ships in a single salvo.
So for 100 reapers, that means in their opening salvo they can take out 500 of your ships.

If they have any brains, they can take out a much larger fleet iwhotu taking any losses at all.


[quote]
[quote]Remember - they are both faster and more manouverable, better protected and more powerfull.[/quote] And finite in number. Whatever they brought with them is all that they have. I'm not trying to match them ship for ship. I'm willing to[/quote]

Your fleets are finite in number too. You't can't pump out ships like they're candy. You can't force them to engange either. All they have to do is go after your shipyards first, and you're boned.

You keep using WW2 USA wartime production, but neglect to see that it took the USA2 years to get that production up and running, adn that's WITH all of hteir shipyards and resources in tact.

In 2 years the reapers can destroy every shipyard in the galaxy.




[quote][quote]
How do you force them to purge a system completely?
All they have to do is destroy all your stations and shipyards in the system (and possibly some ships) and move on. Maybe fire a few shots at a few key points on the planet to boot.
They can easily move on then - that planet won't be a threat to them anymore for some time - if at all. [/quote]

Not all production is space-based. Fighters and frigates can
likely be produced groundside. Also, final assembly areas can be
remanufactured in short order it there remains a viable labor pool
(population). Most ship parts are produced off-site and transported to
the assembly area, not manufactured in orbit. Orbit is only where final assemby takes place, and final assembly is actually relatively easy, once the individual parts have been manufactured.[/quote]

Starship are built in space. Even frigates.
Figeter - yet, those can be built on planets. But IIRC, those are limited in rage.

Either way, bombing a few strategic targets from orbit is all ti takes to slow everything down. If all of your power plants are gone, the entire planet will be in a state of utter chaos.


[quote]
[quote]You can re-take and start building again, but it will take you months, years for that planet to be of any tactical use again. And in months they can rape half hte galaxy.[/quote] More like weeks, actually, especially if that planet's main value is raw materials. Heavy industry is spread out wide enough to require a substantial investment in time in order to erradicate, meanwhile our fleets would be hitting the occasional Reaper patrolling the system and retreating.[/quote]

You assuming you'll be using hit-and-run on the reapers, and not the other way around.
And raw materials is nice, but wihout food and power and factories, you're not get far with that.



[quote]
[quote]Space shisp are expensive and very sophisticated. The Sapce Shuttle costs more than a carrier, and it's only a fraction of it's size. Furthermore, ships are build in space, not on groud.[/quote] The space shuttle is also a pure custom vessele and does not have be benefits of production at scale. Spaceships in ME are far easier to produce, relatively speaking, than the shuttle due to advances in construction techniques and other technology, such as mass effect fields that make spaceborne manufacture easier. Also, there is already a lot of spaceship manufacture done on a regular basis, and is efficient enough that corporations are pulling a profit off of it.[/quote]

As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians
had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. During
the year 2185, the dreadnought count is 39 turians, 20 asari, 16
salarians, and 8 humans.

Given that it takes years for a DN to be be built, I'd say startships are not easy to build at all.
In 3 years, the council races produced a total of 4 dreadnoughts.




[quote] Yes, we need to secure our production facilities, but the Reapers cannot hit everywhere at once without spreading them selves so thin that they will become relatively easy pickings for the fleets.[/quote]

Reapers are not easy pickings even when spread out.
In fact, you're fleets are at a far bigger disadvantage here, since you'll have to spread them out to. You have hudnerds of planets, relays to protect.

A group of 50 reapers can easily outmaounver your fleet and destroy a shipyard, unless your fleet is parked directly on top of it. And if it is, they have free reign to destroy everything else in the system.


[quote]
[quote]If you refuse to give them a decisive engagement, how do you plan to stop them or slow them down?
You can't have it both ways. Either you risk your fleet assets to slow the reapers down, or you give reapers free reign. If you don't slow them down, within a month you won't have any shipyards left.[/quote]

Strategic judgement is required to determine where it is necessary to engage the Reapers. We do not engage the main force as they approach the planet, we harrass them as they destroy it, drawing away some of their forces before disengageing, thus slowing down whatever they are doing on the planet.[/quote]

You assume you can draw them away. Hit-and-run agaisnt the reapers can't work as you invision.
They are faster and more manouverable - so you cannot out-run them. You have to FTL away.
They have better sensors - you won't take them by surprise.
They can one-shot-kill you, you cannot do the same. So even if you DO take them by surprise, you're gonna be loosing ships left and right. They won't have time to FTL away before they're cut in two.
They have greater operation range and durability (heat managment) - hence they can sustain combat operations far, far longer than you. Your ships will have to get rid of that heat - a process which can take HOURS - or they will melt. And your ships are compeltely vulnerable during that.
Your crews need rest and food. The reapers don't.



[quote][quote]
Destroying the relays partialy works in their favor too. If they can't get to you, then your fleets on the other side can't get to where they are needed either. And reapers can travel at FTL faster and moere efficient than you.[/quote]

Time remains on our side. If we can delay them enough, then we can produce enough ships and go Russian on them, eventually.[/quote]

A single system can never out-produce the reapers. While your flet in the system builds up and waits, the reapers are in the meantime reaping and indoctrinating. By the time they get to you, they're gonna be a lot stronger too.
Maybe they'll make more reapers in the meantime. Or mayb they'll just have a army/fleet of indoctrinates slaves.


[quote]
[quote]Ground combat where you hide in jugnles/rocky mountain and among local populace does NOT compare to space combat in any way, shape or form.
Exactly where do you plan to hide your ships?
[/quote]I am talking strategy, not tactics. The strategy in Vietnam and Afghanistan was to cause enough casualties to force a withdrawl. Similarly, my stategy involves causing enough causualties that the Reapers can no longer drive a sucessful offensive.

As for where to hide out fleets, gas-giants and interstellar space seem adequate to me.
[/quote]

Good luck with that.
An gas giants would be the first place where they'd look.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 26 août 2011 - 10:18 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

We're all doomed!

Frazer's great, great, great, great (too many?) grandson for squadmate in ME3. just so he can spout that line

Well either his or Jones...

DON'T PANIC!

Modifié par Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien, 26 août 2011 - 10:31 .

[SandTrout]

@Lotion,

I'm not claiming that it will be easy, but you seem to disregard out-of-hand the advantage of being able to produce more ships while the Reapers cannot, which is contrary to military history up to and including the present.

I am not doubting that the Reapers will likely hit production and supplies as a means of undermining my proposed strategy. Do you have a better strategy other than surrendering or praying that the CB will produce a miracle cure to the Reaper problem?

Let us posit that we are able to secure or maintain at least a large portion of our production capacity against the Reapers, though, say 40%. Would you accept, then that time is on our side due to the ability to produce more ships, rather than the Reapers' side?

[Lotion Soronarr]

SandTrout wrote...

@Lotion,

I'm not claiming that it will be easy, but you seem to disregard out-of-hand the advantage of being able to produce more ships while the Reapers cannot, which is contrary to military history up to and including the present.

I am not doubting that the Reapers will likely hit production and supplies as a means of undermining my proposed strategy. Do you have a better strategy other than surrendering or praying that the CB will produce a miracle cure to the Reaper problem?

Let us posit that we are able to secure or maintain at least a large portion of our production capacity against the Reapers, though, say 40%. Would you accept, then that time is on our side due to the ability to produce more ships, rather than the Reapers' side?

I'm telling you that miltiary history is not applciable here in the context you present.

You ingore that historicy it took time for war-time production to kick in. Even under optimal circumstances.
You ingore that historical examples of war-time production usually have the factories safe and sound.
And I think I shown that ships cannot be built as quickly as you suspected.

You ask if we keep 40% of our production capacity, can we overwhelm the reapers given time?
No. Why?
1) I don't think we have the luxury of that much time.
2) I don't think the reapers will be getting weaker, as they will swell their numbers with slaves the longer the conflict goes on.
3) I don't think we can mantain a favorable kill-to-loss ratio. (assuming only 2000 reapers, they could take out 10000 ships in the first two savlos) If repaers decide to play it safe, it would be extreemly difficult to kill them.

Do I have a better strategy? No, not really. We need to close the gap somehow, find a weakness or a McGuffin. that's the only way I can see a credible victory.

[shiftylookingspacecow]

Fact o the matter is that the OP is exactly right. In a real world situation, the Reapers are a completely unbeatable foe, and the only hope humanity would have would to be to hide a large portion of its people (see Ilos) or join up with the reapers. Unless there is some hidden long forgotten space magic (oh god please dont let that be the in-game solution) The reapers would have us screwed

[OmniLight64]

 While my gut tells me Earth as a whole probably may be doomed, I do however think the reapers are capable of being destroyed or reduced significantly enough for a new species. 

Regarding the FTL travel that the reapers have, I don't deny that their cores probably are much more powerful than most sentient species but it is apparent for long travel it takes months if not years to go from point A to B for them. I mean in Arrival, they would have used the Mass Relay we destroyed to get to Earth in a matter of days. They are also very meticulous as Vigil said that it took many years before the reapers finally left. It also appears that the reapers are spread out quiet a bit and they don't seem dumb but merely have a lot of hubris. So reduce there numbers enough could call for a strategic recall if overwelmed. Plus, you need millions of one species for a new reaper to be made. And that appears to just be the internal core of the being. It could take centuries before a baby reaper is even active enough to be an adult.

But something EDI said comes into my mind. She said she has anti reaper protocols built into her due to parts of her being from Sovereign. Now I don't know what systems these codes could affect but if the Alliance really did take the Normandy appart and studied it, prehaps they were able to make more "EDI-like" systems to help. Just a theory so...

We know fundamentally little about the reapers. Yes they seem omnipotent but Shepard has destroyed 2 (and a 3rd death of one appears to be probable by that demo they show). Small ammounts in the overall group but we don't know how many reapers there exactly are. Are there tens of thousands or merely only several hundred. Plus they are said to vary in size too so a small reaper maybe easier to kill than a larger one. Because of these unknowns, we can't really know for sure if the reapers are not able to be killed. Maybe hope does remain for Earth.

Side note: Isn't the Thallix cannon based on Sovereign's weapons? That pretty easily took out a Collector ship which was build with reaper tech. Maybe one of them has the hope of piercing through reaper shields. Also a huge mass accelorator weapon did take out that derrilect reaper. Also, what could have been occuring beyond the Persues Veil that we didn't know about?

[supakillaii]

Yeah Thanix blew up a Collector Ship.
It might be built using Reaper tech but it didn't have any. (eg. it didn't heave Reaper-class Shields or Hull)

[Lotion Soronarr]

OmniLight64 wrote...

 While my gut tells me Earth as a whole probably may be doomed, I do however think the reapers are capable of being destroyed or reduced significantly enough for a new species. 

Regarding the FTL travel that the reapers have, I don't deny that their cores probably are much more powerful than most sentient species but it is apparent for long travel it takes months if not years to go from point A to B for them. I mean in Arrival, they would have used the Mass Relay we destroyed to get to Earth in a matter of days. They are also very meticulous as Vigil said that it took many years before the reapers finally left. It also appears that the reapers are spread out quiet a bit and they don't seem dumb but merely have a lot of hubris. So reduce there numbers enough could call for a strategic recall if overwelmed. Plus, you need millions of one species for a new reaper to be made. And that appears to just be the internal core of the being. It could take centuries before a baby reaper is even active enough to be an adult.

But something EDI said comes into my mind. She said she has anti reaper protocols built into her due to parts of her being from Sovereign. Now I don't know what systems these codes could affect but if the Alliance really did take the Normandy appart and studied it, prehaps they were able to make more "EDI-like" systems to help. Just a theory so...

We know fundamentally little about the reapers. Yes they seem omnipotent but Shepard has destroyed 2 (and a 3rd death of one appears to be probable by that demo they show). Small ammounts in the overall group but we don't know how many reapers there exactly are. Are there tens of thousands or merely only several hundred. Plus they are said to vary in size too so a small reaper maybe easier to kill than a larger one. Because of these unknowns, we can't really know for sure if the reapers are not able to be killed. Maybe hope does remain for Earth.

Side note: Isn't the Thallix cannon based on Sovereign's weapons? That pretty easily took out a Collector ship which was build with reaper tech. Maybe one of them has the hope of piercing through reaper shields. Also a huge mass accelorator weapon did take out that derrilect reaper. Also, what could have been occuring beyond the Persues Veil that we didn't know about?

1) The reaers were traveling from Dark Sapce..that is VERY far away. The very fact that they reached the gaalxy so fast speaks a lot about their speed.

2) "our numbers will darken the skies of every world" - tehy seem to be hitting seveal places at once. And it looks like there's at least a thousand on Earth alone.

3) With billions of willing slaves, they'll have all the resources they need to add slave ships to their numbers and build more of hteir kind. Altough I don't see new reapers joning the fight for years, the slaves could start filling their ranks rather fast.

4) Thanix is not as powerfull as you think. Normandy without the Thanix can take out hte collector ship. Simply put, the Collector ships is a ****. How the hell it managed to take out 3 turian frigates is beyond me.....

[OmniLight64]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1) The reaers were traveling from Dark Sapce..that is VERY far away. The very fact that they reached the gaalxy so fast speaks a lot about their speed.

How long has the events of end game video to the events of Arrival is it (I normally play the game that way since it makes a bit more sense)? I don't believe we are given a time span but I could be wrong. Second, Bahak and the alpha relay lie pretty close to the edge of the Milky way. I doubt the Reapers would position themselves far enough away from this system as a precaution seeing how it has the extended range quality. Also, there are many other dormant Relays too.
Remember just cause they think that Sovereign wouldn't be discovered doesn't mean they didn't plan in case he was destroyed. Even Vigil said if Sovereign revealed itself too early, it would have been destroyed in a united attack.
I'd also like to point out that dark space technically starts at the edge of any galaxy so you don't need to be millions of light years out to be in dark space, just outside of a galaxy. So, you could be relatively close to a system and still be in dark space. And you even brought up the fact that bulkheads fuse without discharging cores. Add that fact with knowing of the human smoothie the baby reaper need, there is seems to be good chance reapers probably have some sort of organic structure that are key parts of themselves, being too far out of the galaxy would be a problem.

2) "our numbers will darken the skies of every world" - tehy seem to be hitting seveal places at once. And it looks like there's at least a thousand on Earth alone.

I never said that they aren't hitting several places at once. In fact, the reaper in the "Geth Base" not on Earth shows me they are elsewhere too. Also that phrase can be interpreted many ways. It could mean they are hitting every world at one time or they are going all out on one planet and move on to the next. Both end up darkening the sky of every world, it just varies in time span. AIs in sci-fi tend to be very meticulous so that could be very possible. But since a human killed 2 reapers, Earth would definitely be a higher priority target therefore it is a good assumption more of the reaper fleet would go there to get rid of the bulk of a problem species.

3) With billions of willing slaves, they'll have all the resources they need to add slave ships to their numbers and build more of hteir kind. Altough I don't see new reapers joning the fight for years, the slaves could start filling their ranks rather fast.

Well I'm not really sure on the numbers it takes to make a reaper except that it was said there was millions of pods and the collectors appeared to have been planning on hitting Earth (or so I was told by Garrus in my last time through). So really, it depends on how much is needed and if the reapers even make more than one reaper of the same species. As I said, we know little about them. But it's entirely possible however, we also don't know if the collector base was the only reaper creating facility. I assume there is more but one can't be certain without evidence.

4) Thanix is not as powerfull as you think. Normandy without the Thanix can take out hte collector ship. Simply put, the Collector ships is a ****. How the hell it managed to take out 3 turian frigates is beyond me.....

Element of suprise does help you take out enemy forces. Remember, the same ship took out the first Normandy 2 years prior because of that. I'm not saying a collector ship would stand up to a Reaper but its still a lot stronger than most other ships and better equiped than those crafts. Plus, the Normandy is a lot closer when it uses regular weapons as to the cannon and takes heavy damage in the process. I'm just saying that you have a better chance with killing a reaper with a Thanix equiped than using standard equipment. But there is probably better weapons for a vessel to use than a Thanix in ME3 anyways so my point was kind of dumb suggesting it.

Speaking of the Normandy, it's pretty advance compared to other spacecrafts. I mean in a demo, it dropped into a Reaper invaded area, picked up Shepard and Anderson, and then managed to get off Earth. Seeing how those Occulus near the collector base picked up the ship cloaked, I doubt that a reaper wouldn't 'see' it. So unless Harbinger just wants to play a game with Shepard cause it is bored ('Riddle Me this Batman' quote comes to mind here), really no reason to let the ship carrying the man who killed two of your own kind escape. I think regardless of how much pride you have, anyone would take out the only 'hope' people have as soon as possible.

Modifié par OmniLight64, 27 août 2011 - 02:52 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Omni, the reapers started for the galaxy after ME1.

ME3 is 6mo-1yr after ME2

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 27 août 2011 - 03:12 .

[Homebound]

if im going down, im taking as many of the reapers down with me.

[OmniLight64]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Omni, the reapers started for the galaxy after ME1.

Sorry, I completely forgot about that and didn't mean to exclude it. But distance out regardless and I guess speed is key in that. While I don't doubt they are able to be in ftl longer than regular ships, they still more likely have to discharge so they don't end up damaging themselves.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

OmniLight64 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Omni, the reapers started for the galaxy after ME1.

Sorry, I completely forgot about that and didn't mean to exclude it. But distance out regardless and I guess speed is key in that. While I don't doubt they are able to be in ftl longer than regular ships, they still more likely have to discharge so they don't end up damaging themselves.

Oh,no doubt they do,just giving you the time frame.

[Lotion Soronarr]

OmniLight64 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

1) The reaers were traveling from Dark Sapce..that is VERY far away. The very fact that they reached the gaalxy so fast speaks a lot about their speed.

How long has the events of end game video to the events of Arrival is it (I normally play the game that way since it makes a bit more sense)? I don't believe we are given a time span but I could be wrong. Second, Bahak and the alpha relay lie pretty close to the edge of the Milky way. I doubt the Reapers would position themselves far enough away from this system as a precaution seeing how it has the extended range quality. Also, there are many other dormant Relays too.
Remember just cause they think that Sovereign wouldn't be discovered doesn't mean they didn't plan in case he was destroyed. Even Vigil said if Sovereign revealed itself too early, it would have been destroyed in a united attack.
I'd also like to point out that dark space technically starts at the edge of any galaxy so you don't need to be millions of light years out to be in dark space, just outside of a galaxy. So, you could be relatively close to a system and still be in dark space. And you even brought up the fact that bulkheads fuse without discharging cores. Add that fact with knowing of the human smoothie the baby reaper need, there is seems to be good chance reapers probably have some sort of organic structure that are key parts of themselves, being too far out of the galaxy would be a problem.

If that cinematic was anythin to go by, they seemed to be pretty far away. You could see the whole milky way galaxy from where they were. Not to mention that if they want to stay hidden, then being closer is going contrary to that purpose.
Also, it seems reapers have far better heat managment and more efficient drives than we do.

2) "our numbers will darken the skies of every world" - tehy seem to be hitting seveal places at once. And it looks like there's at least a thousand on Earth alone.

I never said that they aren't hitting several places at once. In fact, the reaper in the "Geth Base" not on Earth shows me they are elsewhere too. Also that phrase can be interpreted many ways. It could mean they are hitting every world at one time or they are going all out on one planet and move on to the next. Both end up darkening the sky of every world, it just varies in time span. AIs in sci-fi tend to be very meticulous so that could be very possible. But since a human killed 2 reapers, Earth would definitely be a higher priority target therefore it is a good assumption more of the reaper fleet would go there to get rid of the bulk of a problem species.

You would be correct in that assumption. My whole point was that there seems to be many reapers.
Which kinda makes sense...if they are as old as they appear, that means they had millions and millions of years to build more of their kind.

4) Thanix is not as powerfull as you think. Normandy without the Thanix can take out hte collector ship. Simply put, the Collector ships is a ****. How the hell it managed to take out 3 turian frigates is beyond me.....

Element of suprise does help you take out enemy forces. Remember, the same ship took out the first Normandy 2 years prior because of that. I'm not saying a collector ship would stand up to a Reaper but its still a lot stronger than most other ships and better equiped than those crafts. Plus, the Normandy is a lot closer when it uses regular weapons as to the cannon and takes heavy damage in the process. I'm just saying that you have a better chance with killing a reaper with a Thanix equiped than using standard equipment. But there is probably better weapons for a vessel to use than a Thanix in ME3 anyways so my point was kind of dumb suggesting it.

Correct. I too assume it used hte element of surprise. Note that it took SEVERAL shots to take out the first Normandy. Which is a frigate.
The Thanix gives Normandy 2 the firepower of a cruiser. Which takes out the collector ship in 2 shots.
Combine that with the purpose of the Collector ship (to attack small colonies and kidnap people) and it should be clear that the collector ship is big, but it's not a warship.
The game at this point makes little sense, given what we're told and what we've seen (Collector ship taking out a turian patrol, and SA ships...even if we assume all are frigates...)

Speaking of the Normandy, it's pretty advance compared to other spacecrafts. I mean in a demo, it dropped into a Reaper invaded area, picked up Shepard and Anderson, and then managed to get off Earth. Seeing how those Occulus near the collector base picked up the ship cloaked, I doubt that a reaper wouldn't 'see' it. So unless Harbinger just wants to play a game with Shepard cause it is bored ('Riddle Me this Batman' quote comes to mind here), really no reason to let the ship carrying the man who killed two of your own kind escape. I think regardless of how much pride you have, anyone would take out the only 'hope' people have as soon as possible.

Agreed. That's poor writing there. Normandy flying between reapers and they not bothering to take it out.

[stysiaq]

Is that only me, who gets nausea when he reads the words "Thanix cannon" over and over again?

It is just reverse-engineering.
Moreover, it is imperfect, have to be.
You can't possibly re-create exact technology, by only looking at some scraps.
It is inferior to Reapers actual tech.

and reverse engineering WONT give the galaxy an edge it needs, because reverse engineering CANT surpass the tech it bases on. Not in two years span.

It. Is. Not. Enough.

Humanity (and other races) must create their own "big guns" to even dream of taking out some Reapers.

[Dragon age x Mass effect]

In Cliches we trust.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Studying reaper tech cannot produce guns that are as efficient as reaper one in short-term.

But the thing is they don't have to be efficient. They have to be powerfull.

Gun not powerfull enough? Use more gun. Up-sacale it and create a bigger gun. Quanitity and size have a quality of their own. That gun that killed the 37million year old reaper was a mass driver, just a massive one.

Heck, we humans have a in-built desire to one-up anyone else. Reapers are 3 km long? f*** that, we'll make a ships that 6 km long! No, make that 9!
Bigger gun. BIGGER GUN.



NEVER ENUFF DAKKA!

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 30 août 2011 - 10:26 .

[marstor05]

reapers travel at the speed of plot.