50 réponses à ce sujet

[alperez]

I think some people want the VS. to be indoctrinated just to annoy me1 fans more than anything else. There's no evidence that they were or could be and someone suggesting that the fact they were slightly off on Horizon as being some kind of indication that they are is really clutching at straws.

It makes no sense that the reapers would indoctrinate the Vs. on horizon and then have the Vs. not accompany Shepard while Shepard was trying to stop the collectors or the reapers themselves.

[Brixxer600]

If the VS was indoctrinated then they wouldn't necessarily make them go with Shepard , the VS is a highly trusted officer in the Alliance who with the right "manipulation" could well be elevated to Spectre status , keeping them where they are would also be a smart move . I'm not saying that they were indoctrinated because i don't think anywhere near enough time had passed but  i did think it suspect that they of all people appeared to be the only ones to "awaken" on Horizon and that the Collectors left them behind even although they were connected to Shep.

[_Sylar_]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Rmember how Reaper tech indoctrinates anyone who comes into contact with it? Let's see who may be indoctrinated already...

VS: Ash/Kaiden was on Horizon, hit by seeker swarms and then is suddenly free. Plus Ash refers to Shepard as, "a god." Something is very, very wrong.

You know this always bugged me somehow!:?It was just very,very,very,VERY strange.Seeing how Kaidan/Ash were hit by the seeker swarms and near the end of the mission suddenly of nowhere they showed up.While playing ME2 for the first time and after that mission,I thought that later I will find out that this is some "replacement" of Kaidan/Ash(some plan of the Collectors maybe),but still I proved wrong=]So...I wonder...can this be possible ME3?

[Cinnabar6]

Rana Thanoptis, if she survives Virmire, is probably indoctrinated, which explains the comment/hint that you get when you run into her again during the Grunt recruitment mission.

I think it likely that if a player gets the "worst" ending that results from the choices made, Shepard himself/herself is Huskified and the civilizations of the galaxy are lost. I think it likely that during the game some of the voluntary missions will provide Shepard with alternatives/countermeasures to the Reaper indoctrination that many characters are already at risk of.

I think it is going to be awesome.

[ladyvader]

jreezy wrote...

So is it agreed that the VS, the Normandy crew and Shepard are not indoctrinated? Can't really say much for TIM since he rummaged around for some tech in the Collector Base's remains.

According the the lastest Mac Walters interview.  TIM has the base.   This better be explain how that can be when 99% of my playthroughs the base is blown the **** up.

20 playthroughs, kept base once that I remember, but maybe a second time.  I should have kept better notes.  

[Laminator]

I doubt that Shepard and co. are indoctrinated, as Sovereign is pretty dead, and I doubt an IFF would have indoctrination powers. As for TIM and VS, collector tech doesn't necessarily mean Reaper tech.

[JedTed]

ladyvader wrote...

jreezy wrote...

So is it agreed that the VS, the Normandy crew and Shepard are not indoctrinated? Can't really say much for TIM since he rummaged around for some tech in the Collector Base's remains.

According the the lastest Mac Walters interview.  TIM has the base.   This better be explain how that can be when 99% of my playthroughs the base is blown the **** up.

20 playthroughs, kept base once that I remember, but maybe a second time.  I should have kept better notes.  

I'm curious about this aswell.  In ME:Retribution it says that he plans to continue the Collectors' experiments, i assume leaving the base intact just makes that easier.

Back on topic, i think you people are paranoid.  Aside from questioning how Ashley/Kaiden broke free of the effects of the Seeker Swarms, there's no evidence to suggest the Normandy crew is indoctrinated.

[luzburg]

i think EDI was implemented with som "understanding" of the reaper tech so to better understand and prevent reaper hacking attempts, other than that i think she is a normal ai,

i hope the reaper thecnolegy used on shepard is inert and not linked to the rest of the reapers,
like they found out what the reaper tecnolegy used to quicly heal its victims, and adapted it the parts used in shepards body

TIM i supect he is partly under control by the reapers, all the reaseach on reaper tech by cerberus is on the indoctrination part, saren did the same to try prevent futher indoctrination,   as for him to revive shepard maybe the reapers whant her alive rather than dead or TIM hoped shed destroyd the reaper threat befor his mind was overcomed,   as for sending her to destroy the collecors is to keep her and those focused on the reaper threat on that problem while the reapers aproach the alpha relay and keeping some form of suprice, and i dont think the reapers started their aproach at the end of the suicide mission rather the end of me1 since the ftl fligt from that distance take a long time ,  and the collecors constucton of the human reaper is somthing the reapers ment to finish themself, and it was started not long before the reapers arive themself

Modifié par luzburg, 28 juillet 2011 - 10:13 .

[Xarathox]

Brixxer600 wrote...

If the VS was indoctrinated then they wouldn't necessarily make them go with Shepard , the VS is a highly trusted officer in the Alliance who with the right "manipulation" could well be elevated to Spectre status , keeping them where they are would also be a smart move . I'm not saying that they were indoctrinated because i don't think anywhere near enough time had passed but  i did think it suspect that they of all people appeared to be the only ones to "awaken" on Horizon and that the Collectors left them behind even although they were connected to Shep.

I would probably go more along the lines that they want the VS to be indoctrinated to justify their ****ty attitude on Horizon. Since shep wasn't remotely given any dialog options to make his case via player input.

[Zombievarning]

AnimaTempli101 wrote...
And whose word are we taking that 'even a dead god can dream'? A partially indoctrinated, out of his mind, Cerberus tech.

Well, to be fair, it's mostly a Lovecraft reference.

[The Twilight God]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Rmember how Reaper tech indoctrinates anyone who comes into contact with it? Let's see who may be indoctrinated already...

VS: Ash/Kaiden was on Horizon, hit by seeker swarms and then is suddenly free. Plus Ash refers to Shepard as, "a god." Something is very, very wrong.

TIM: His eyes were damaged by a reaper artifact.

The entier ME2 squad: The Normandy, in particular EDI were rebuilt using technology form the reapers.

Shepard: Was rebuilt with reaper technology.

The just leaves Liara, Anderson and Wrex as the only people in the galaxy who are still themselves and not under Harbinger's control who still know what they're fighting against.

1. Ashley/Kaidan were not in the direct presense of reaper technology nor did they suffer prolonged exposure to collector technology. There is no evidence that every single piece of reaper (or collector) technology has the ability to indoctrinate. In all known cases it has occured in the direct presense of a reaper itself or artifacts of distinct reaper design/origin. The collector particle beam isn't indoctrinating Shepard and Jacob.

2. Dr. Chakwas, Kelly, Ken, Gabby, Rupert, Shepard and the rest of the Normandy's Cerberus crew would have a much higher chance of being indoctrinated than Ashley/Kaidan. Shepard seeming to have received the greatest amount considering he was able to receive a hallucination from Harbinger and hold a conversation with the reaper via that hallucination.

3. The human colonists and normandy crew were being harvested for the express purpose of constructing the organic framework of a reaper. Indoctinating them serves no purpose as their ultimate fate would be being processed into genetic soup.

4. TIM is an oddity. He has signs of physiological alteration due to "second hand" exposure to a reaper artifact's discharge. He could detect the presense of the particular artifact that effected him over light year distances, his eyes were altered by with nanites and similar to Shepard he received a form of cipher allowing him to speak a reaper or ancient turian dialect. But his actions speak louder than his eyes. His actions against the Shadow Broker and Collectors to recover Shepard's body and his role in the downfall of the Collectors does not paint him as a person looking out for reaper interests.

5. EDI has anti-reaper cyber warefare algorithims recovered from the wreckage of Soveriegn (I presume). However, EDI is not a product of reverse engineering reaper AI systems. She is a normal AI just like the one on the Citadel funneling money through the Quasar machines in ME1. There is evidence to conclude that reapers aren't artificial intelligence at all, but that is a different subject altogether.

6. At no point is it ever stated that Project Lazarus is or is based on reaper technology. Even if it is based on reaper technology it clearly is not reaper technology. Otherwise, what happened to Paul Grayson would have happened to Shepard. Judging by Cerberus' appearent ignorance in the field of reaper nanotechnology in Mass Effect: Retribution, which occurs after ME2, I suspect the Lazarus technology is not based on reaper nanotechnology. 

[Elvis_Mazur]

Good. One more reason to airlock the VS.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

S.A.K wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

Rmember how Reaper tech indoctrinates anyone who comes into contact with it? Let's see who may be indoctrinated already...

VS: Ash/Kaiden was on Horizon, hit by seeker swarms and then is suddenly free. Plus Ash refers to Shepard as, "a god." Something is very, very wrong.

TIM: His eyes were damaged by a reaper artifact.

The entier ME2 squad: The Normandy, in particular EDI were rebuilt using technology form the reapers.

Shepard: Was rebuilt with reaper technology.

The just leaves Liara, Anderson and Wrex as the only people in the galaxy who are still themselves and not under Harbinger's control who still know what they're fighting against.

Have to agree on VS and TIM once. I was wondering how the VS got free after struck by seeker swarms and her reaction to shepard was weird too.

Same here. I thought it was just a design overlook by Bioware, but now I think the VS didn't escape the Collectors, they joined the Collectors.

[eternalnightmare13]

Dasher1010 wrote...

Rmember how Reaper tech indoctrinates anyone who comes into contact with it? Let's see who may be indoctrinated already...

VS: Ash/Kaiden was on Horizon, hit by seeker swarms and then is suddenly free. Plus Ash refers to Shepard as, "a god." Something is very, very wrong.

TIM: His eyes were damaged by a reaper artifact.

The entier ME2 squad: The Normandy, in particular EDI were rebuilt using technology form the reapers.

Shepard: Was rebuilt with reaper technology.

The just leaves Liara, Anderson and Wrex as the only people in the galaxy who are still themselves and not under Harbinger's control who still know what they're fighting against.

Indoctrination doesn't happen instantly.  

As far as the VS goes I take that to be ****ty writing on Bioware's part.  You're trying to say they were indoctrinated cause of the swarm?  That makes no sense.  Only Ashley refers to Shep as ''a god''.  ****** poor writing on their part.  She's a Christian - she wouldn't be referring to someone as ''a god''.

I call BS on your part about Shepard and Reaper tech.  There's nothing to support your claim.

[The Twilight God]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

As far as the VS goes I take that to be ****ty writing on Bioware's part.  You're trying to say they were indoctrinated cause of the swarm?  That makes no sense.  Only Ashley refers to Shep as ''a god''.  ****** poor writing on their part.  She's a Christian - she wouldn't be referring to someone as ''a god''.

Given the information available, Ashley can only be said to be a deist, not a Christian.  Fornicating with Shepard before Ilos isn't Christian.

[CrazyCatDude]

The Twilight God wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

As far as the VS goes I take that to be ****ty writing on Bioware's part.  You're trying to say they were indoctrinated cause of the swarm?  That makes no sense.  Only Ashley refers to Shep as ''a god''.  ****** poor writing on their part.  She's a Christian - she wouldn't be referring to someone as ''a god''.

Given the information available, Ashley can only be said to be a deist, not a Christian.  Fornicating with Shepard before Ilos isn't Christian.

Depends on what flavor of Christianity.  Some of them can be pretty flexible on the rules.  For example, my old WoW guild had a raid leader who was an unmarried, bisexual Episcopalian priest with a live in boyfriend.  Honestly, most of the more progressive branches of Christianity have given up on the "no sex before marriage" rule.

[The Twilight God]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

As far as the VS goes I take that to be ****ty writing on Bioware's part.  You're trying to say they were indoctrinated cause of the swarm?  That makes no sense.  Only Ashley refers to Shep as ''a god''.  ****** poor writing on their part.  She's a Christian - she wouldn't be referring to someone as ''a god''.

Given the information available, Ashley can only be said to be a deist, not a Christian.  Fornicating with Shepard before Ilos isn't Christian.

Depends on what flavor of Christianity.  Some of them can be pretty flexible on the rules.  For example, my old WoW guild had a raid leader who was an unmarried, bisexual Episcopalian priest with a live in boyfriend.  Honestly, most of the more progressive branches of Christianity have given up on the "no sex before marriage" rule.

There are no flavors. You either abide by the teachings of the Bible or you don't. The Bible is clear on fornication and homosexuality. Anyone can claim to be Christian, but if we accept anyone as Christian for simply making the claim it removes all meaning from the word. I can call myself a police officer, but if I have no legitimate badge, no genuine uniform and haven't graduated from the academy I'm not really a cop. If you simply accepted my claim despite my lack of police officer qualities then being a cop would be meaningless as everyone is essential a cop. They just have to say they are.

But that isn't relevent. The fact is Ashley never claims to be a Christian. She only acknowledges the existence of a creator-deity and a belief in an existence beyond the physical body.

[ladyvader]

luzburg wrote...

i think EDI was implemented with som "understanding" of the reaper tech so to better understand and prevent reaper hacking attempts, other than that i think she is a normal ai,

i hope the reaper thecnolegy used on shepard is inert and not linked to the rest of the reapers,
like they found out what the reaper tecnolegy used to quicly heal its victims, and adapted it the parts used in shepards body

TIM i supect he is partly under control by the reapers, all the reaseach on reaper tech by cerberus is on the indoctrination part, saren did the same to try prevent futher indoctrination,   as for him to revive shepard maybe the reapers whant her alive rather than dead or TIM hoped shed destroyd the reaper threat befor his mind was overcomed,   as for sending her to destroy the collecors is to keep her and those focused on the reaper threat on that problem while the reapers aproach the alpha relay and keeping some form of suprice, and i dont think the reapers started their aproach at the end of the suicide mission rather the end of me1 since the ftl fligt from that distance take a long time ,  and the collecors constucton of the human reaper is somthing the reapers ment to finish themself, and it was started not long before the reapers arive themself

Even during the Arrival DLC, Dr. Kenson stated she wanted to keep Shepard alive after the artifact knocked Shepard out or the mercs.  Depending on if you got through all five waves.

I still want to know.  Why do they want Shepard so bad?  

[The Twilight God]

ladyvader wrote...

luzburg wrote...

i think EDI was implemented with som "understanding" of the reaper tech so to better understand and prevent reaper hacking attempts, other than that i think she is a normal ai,

i hope the reaper thecnolegy used on shepard is inert and not linked to the rest of the reapers,
like they found out what the reaper tecnolegy used to quicly heal its victims, and adapted it the parts used in shepards body

TIM i supect he is partly under control by the reapers, all the reaseach on reaper tech by cerberus is on the indoctrination part, saren did the same to try prevent futher indoctrination,   as for him to revive shepard maybe the reapers whant her alive rather than dead or TIM hoped shed destroyd the reaper threat befor his mind was overcomed,   as for sending her to destroy the collecors is to keep her and those focused on the reaper threat on that problem while the reapers aproach the alpha relay and keeping some form of suprice, and i dont think the reapers started their aproach at the end of the suicide mission rather the end of me1 since the ftl fligt from that distance take a long time ,  and the collecors constucton of the human reaper is somthing the reapers ment to finish themself, and it was started not long before the reapers arive themself

Even during the Arrival DLC, Dr. Kenson stated she wanted to keep Shepard alive after the artifact knocked Shepard out or the mercs.  Depending on if you got through all five waves.

I still want to know.  Why do they want Shepard so bad?  

Since there plan was to keep him there drugged I presume they intended to mildly indoctrinate him and use him like Saren. At the end of ME1 Saren says they were impressed with him and wanted to make him an ally. I also think they'd like to make him the primary consciousness of or infuse his traits/qualities into a human reaper as he is considered the best of humanity.

[taffy_17]

I've been wondering for a while how or if Shepard resisted indoctrination all this time. After all he has spent a lot of time around reaper artefacts. eg/. arrival, reaper IFF, Eden prime, the mine full of husks, the citadel at end of ME1, collector base and Virmire, to name a few missions that had Shepard close to reapers or reapery stuff.
I know its fiction, but surely over time this would have stacked up?
Also as mentioned, the reapers do seem very reluctant to kill Shepard.

[The Twilight God]

taffy_17 wrote...

I know its fiction, but surely over time this would have stacked up?

It doesn't stack.

[JoeLaTurkey]

Shiala seems to be the exception...

[LOLandStuff]

I think TIM was under Reaper control from the first time he got exposed to the artifact but also got his moments of lucidity.