19 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

really was one of the first Magisters who made a pact with Dumat? was that over 2,000 years ago?

[TEWR]

yup.

[Stardusk78]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

yup.

So the story is true then?

[Kaiser Shepard]

I don't think that part of the story was ever in doubt.

[Stardusk78]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I don't think that part of the story was ever in doubt.

Really?  Seemed unlikely to me...there seems to be a chance that the Magister still lives through the Warden; is this true as well?

[MisanthropePrime]

The magisters going to the "golden city" bit is true.

If you listen closely, though, he remarks that it was "supposed to be golden" but it was black by the time he got there, and he implies that it was Dumat who inspired them to go into the black city, not them getting the idea on their own. So the chantry's exact rendition of the story seems flawed.

[Stardusk78]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The magisters going to the "golden city" bit is true.

If you listen closely, though, he remarks that it was "supposed to be golden" but it was black by the time he got there, and he implies that it was Dumat who inspired them to go into the black city, not them getting the idea on their own. So the chantry's exact rendition of the story seems flawed.

So they were deceived by Dumat?

[TEWR]

So it seems.

Perhaps Dumat knew what would happen, and wanted Darkspawn to appear. Darkspawn are an Archdemon's private, hive-mind army that can't betray you.

At least that's probably what he thought, but didn't account for the Magisters not being mindless.


All speculation mind you, but that's what I love most about this DLC. So many things to speculate.

[TOBY FLENDERSON]

I think Dumat was corrupted before the Magisters breached the city (which was likely done in Kirkwall if you read one of the codex entries. My question is who corrupted Dumat? Was it the Dread Wolf, Flemith? Because were told that the old gods retreated after the blight started because they would become archdemons. Meaning Dumat was already an archdemon, but how? My best guess is it was the forgotten ones who started the blights by corrupting Dumat.

[Torax]

TOBY FLENDERSON wrote...

I think Dumat was corrupted before the Magisters breached the city (which was likely done in Kirkwall if you read one of the codex entries. My question is who corrupted Dumat? Was it the Dread Wolf, Flemith? Because were told that the old gods retreated after the blight started because they would become archdemons. Meaning Dumat was already an archdemon, but how? My best guess is it was the forgotten ones who started the blights by corrupting Dumat.

If the Old Gods are one and the same with the Forgotten Ones of the Dalish Lore? Then they were corrupted or already evil long before the concept of blight. An Endless War between the Pantheons and the Forgotten Ones. The belief of the Elves is that the Dread Wolf tricked both sides and then trapped them. Forgotten ones to the depths and the Pantheon to the skies. The Chantry's belief is that the Maker trapped the Old Gods under ground and that they were not part of his plans. We can only take them as they are. But the same scenario doesn't truly contradict each other. For example the Elves do not believe the Pantheon were their creators.

Dumat was not a friendly God even acknowledged by Tevinter. So to think he was already "corrupted" could be off base if one was already hell bent on destruction and power.

[dragonflight288]

I'm still wrapping my mind around everything but I will put down everything I know.

The chant of light teaches that 1000 years earlier, the magisters assaulted the heavens to take the golden city for themselves. Corypheus proves it actually happened 2000 years earlier. I suppose that makes sense. Potentially a couple dozen(?) magisters does not make a blight.

By my own interpretations on dwarven codex entries, it was somewhere between 2000-1500 years before Origins that the Dwarves first started encountering darkspawn. I could be wrong but that would fit the timeline. I can see the corrupted magisters tainting everything around them, and so went underground to hear the song of their old gods as they already worshiped them anyway.

We also know that around the time of the first blight, Corypheus is sealed. We don't know exactly how long that would have taken between assaulting the black city. Heck, he may just be suffering some amnesia from being in stasis for so long and forgot a couple centuries or two. Avernus proves that a powerful blood mage can survive for exceptionally long period of times. And he had the tainted blood to deal with on top of that.

We also know that the first blight lasted roughly 400 years, and that scholars worked tirelessly to figure out which Old God led it. They finally settled on Dumat. But since he altar of Dumat still works, I think it's not far off to think that they could have called out the wrong tevinter god.

All this shows that the Chant of Light is at least partially true. I didn't put much stock in it, especially since the Chantry removed the part about the elves for being too heretical. I saw that as they only allowed doctrine in their beliefs that actually matched their beliefs. Shame on their scripture telling them they're wrong.<_<

[JasmoVT]

Early on in the discussion with Corphy he makes a reference to humans being slaves of the dwarves, did I miss something in the Codex or is this new info.

[Torax]

JasmoVT wrote...

Early on in the discussion with Corphy he makes a reference to humans being slaves of the dwarves, did I miss something in the Codex or is this new info.

The Dwarves had a Treaty of sorts with the Imperium. This probably allowed them to trade in slaves with the Imperium. Since the player and their companions do not respond to his initial question about being his servants, he assumed you must be slaves to the Dwarves otherwise.

dragonflight288 wrote...

... We also know that the first blight lasted roughly 400 years ....

It's said that the first blight lasted 200 years. not 400. Andraste and all of that battle'n takes place just a little after 200 years from when the dark spawn first appeared. Caradin didn't even make his gollems until about 140 years after the dark spawn first appeared and then 60 years after that is when the dark spawn fully retreated to the deep roads. 20 years after that is whan Maferath and Andraste arrived across the waking sea. There was no 400 years per the timelines. 1300 years according to the Chantry between the defiling of the Golden City and the 5th Blight. 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Ages

Modifié par Torax, 27 juillet 2011 - 01:54 .

[Huntress]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

The magisters going to the "golden city" bit is true.

If you listen closely, though, he remarks that it was "supposed to be golden" but it was black by the time he got there, and he implies that it was Dumat who inspired them to go into the black city, not them getting the idea on their own. So the chantry's exact rendition of the story seems flawed.

Flawed? come on it make perfect sense! thats why  mages have to pay for what happen 1000's of years ago, it make perfect sense.. to the templars and chantry anyway. <_<

When is my hawke gonna change the world.. can't wait to cast crushing prision on black divine and white divine.

[WhiteKnyght]

Perhaps the Golden City was never gold.

In Origins there is a side quest in the Alienage involving a demon and a templar. The demon mocks the Templar for his beliefs and says there is no golden city.

the spirits and demons of the fade are supposed to be the Maker's first children according to the chantry. So if this is true, wouldn't they know about the Golden City and if it was blackened?

Perhaps the Black City isn't the seat of the Maker that was corrupted by man, but rather the home of the old gods and already tainted.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I thought the first blight lasted 90 years not 200-400.   Dumat was already tainted when the first blight began.   He was the reason for the blight.  Or is it that it took 90 years to learn how to kill Dumat? 

Also isn't there a reference to Trevinter and possibly it's capital Minrathous (sp) being called the Black City. What if the Black City is actually Minrathous? Maybe the Magisters corrupted themselves and their city spiritually and their continued use of blood magic after the taint. Andraste was fighting Magisters.

Is Corypheus the reason that Trevinter sent Hawke's ancestor to Kirkwall possibly to find Corypheus? Is Corypheus the Enigma of Kirkwall?

@ Toby

The first game tells us that darkspawn are the ones who corrupt and awaken the old gods.  Which brings back the question where did the first darkspawn actually come from.  Not unless they were citizens that got tainted during the magister attempt to corrupt the seat of the Maker.   Wynne does hint at Ostagar that the darkspawn where once men who actually lived and they have a connection to the fade.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 27 juillet 2011 - 09:54 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

JasmoVT wrote...

Early on in the discussion with Corphy he makes a reference to humans being slaves of the dwarves, did I miss something in the Codex or is this new info.

I got the impression that he thought all of my party were slaves.  But, I couldn't actually hear all of the line.  I remember thinking when he told us to bow down that the fight was on.  

[Stardusk78]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I thought the first blight lasted 90 years not 200-400.   Dumat was already tainted when the first blight began.   He was the reason for the blight.  Or is it that it took 90 years to learn how to kill Dumat? 

Also isn't there a reference to Trevinter and possibly it's capital Minrathous (sp) being called the Black City. What if the Black City is actually Minrathous? Maybe the Magisters corrupted themselves and their city spiritually and their continued use of blood magic after the taint. Andraste was fighting Magisters.

Is Corypheus the reason that Trevinter sent Hawke's ancestor to Kirkwall possibly to find Corypheus? Is Corypheus the Enigma of Kirkwall?

@ Toby

The first game tells us that darkspawn are the ones who corrupt and awaken the old gods.  Which brings back the question where did the first darkspawn actually come from.  Not unless they were citizens that got tainted during the magister attempt to corrupt the seat of the Maker.   Wynne does hint at Ostagar that the darkspawn where once men who actually lived and they have a connection to the fade.

And Morrigan does compare the Tower corruption to darkspawn corruption in the mage quest...

[Sepewrath]

I'm jumping to conclusions that the Darkspawn existed before the Magister's went into the Fade, they might something to do with that Thaig and the Lyrium idol and all that from the Deep Roads. Its seems odd for a God to be screwing around with people for no good reason. Maybe the Archdemon's were always Archdemon's and the reason Corypheus and the other Magister's heard it talking to them, is because the Darkspawn taint was already spreading in Tevinter.

[Tahleron1]

it wouldn't surprise me if the old gods were originally the basis of the corruption, that the black city was the prison for the taint that took away their powerbase (which is why noone was ever meant to be able to reach it), which is why they're stuck in slumber/prisons until the darkspawn find them, ergo Dumat wanted them to get to the black city because he wanted his power/freedom back

Modifié par Tahleron1, 29 juillet 2011 - 02:36 .